Wintersun's Jari Mäenpää on Time II Problems

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by jvms, Jul 31, 2014.

  1. Captain Shoggoth

    Captain Shoggoth literally just vibing

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    alerts for this thread are reminding me what a snooooooooooooooze forest seasons was, me and my friend who went halfsies on crowdfunding havent discussed that album since the day we downloaded it

    weird that jari has decided that he is too cool for shredding when the strength of wintersun s/t was the riffs and mega solos, even if time ii is released before the heat death of the universe i have a suspicion itll be even more of an overblown disjointed film score than time i and the forest seasons already were

    @works0fheart long time no see! ty for the insight re: that tour, that financial breakdown was great as well. hope you are keeping well <3
     
  2. Kovah

    Kovah SS.org Regular

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    Same here, I listened to the whole album only once. The only song I come back to is Loneliness. The rest is just meh and there's something that I really hate. I'm not sure if it's the guitar tone/mixing or even the mastering but for some reason it's very muddy.
     
  3. InHiding

    InHiding SS.org Regular

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    I've never really listened to this band so I gave it a chance. Time is an average/good song, very typical songwriting, nothing special. Some good solo work. The vocals are on the weak side tbh. Why exactly are people throwing away money to this guy? Just because he layers a lot of stuff on his songs? In his position I would never build a studio, I would just pocket all the money... or maybe he is actually building a home that will be in temporary "headquarters" for a few months until the dust settles off. That's probably smarter. Pretty sure this is a scam or will transform into one.
     
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  4. Frostod

    Frostod SS.org Regular

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    This...is your magnum opus

    On topic: I don't think that Jari is planning on ripping people off. I think he just massively sucks with time and money management.
     
  5. Jonathan20022

    Jonathan20022 Engineer

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    This is a horrifying blunder from an audience's perspective. People should really value their money more instead of enabling "artists" to do whatever they please.

    Reading the last 10 or so pages gives me as much insight as I need to know, Jari has somehow convinced a number of his audience members that his process is justified. So while generous Wintersun fans slave at a job and throw money their way whenever they ask, Jari sits in his hot tub and building paid for entirely by his fans :lol:

    He should convert his building into a free museum to show their fans what they put their hard earned money into.
     
  6. works0fheart

    works0fheart Tike Myson

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    Hey man, glad to see you're still around as well! I hope all is well and you're still shredding as hard as I remember lol. Shoot me a message sometime, it'd be nice to catch up!

    You don't say :lol:
    Sorry, it's such low hanging fruit at this point that it's ridiculous.
     
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  7. Zalbu

    Zalbu More time than skill

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    Jaris complaints about his computer haven't been about the audio quality itself, for that he complains about how his Axe-Fx isn't good enough because of electrical interference or whatever the complaint was. His complaint was that he doesn't have enough computer horsepower to handle a trillion orchestral tracks.
     
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  8. GunpointMetal

    GunpointMetal SS.org Regular

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    And most of these issues are mitigated by learning your hardware and considering arrangement instead of throwing money at it.
     
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  9. CrushingAnvil

    CrushingAnvil Ironically enough, now in Jesus Land

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    Uhhhh okay. Jari is a really good dude and a talented musician. Funny how you haven't been following the band, listening to their music, and don't know anything about the members, but are ready to write this off as a scam. If you don't know why there's so much hype, then listen to their self-titled album. Wouldn't suggest listening to Time as the intro to the band. Would recommend Winter Madness, Battle Against Time, and of course Beyond the Dark Sun.
     
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  10. GunpointMetal

    GunpointMetal SS.org Regular

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    Lol, it's symphonic metal not the second coming of the Lord.
     
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  11. Jonathan20022

    Jonathan20022 Engineer

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    Gonna be some striking parallels to ol' Kenny when it's 2030 and Time II is still coming.



    "It takes a lot of money to do what we do" :rofl:
     
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  12. Leviathus

    Leviathus Psychotic Monster

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    Yahtzee!!!
     
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  13. fantom

    fantom Misses his 6 strings

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    No idea how you know "Jari is a really good dude". I won't even try to debate it since I don't know him personally. The s/t album came out in 2004! You can't use that album to justify any hype in 2020. Ya, it had good tracks for what it was, but it wasn't game-changing or amazing. I wouldn't even say it was top album of the decade. It was a mediocre release with maybe 3 solid tracks. I actually think Time is a much better album (even with only 3 actual songs). So maybe you are hyped about Jari taking hundreds of thousands of dollars from fans to build his dream house because he released 8 songs in 2004 that blew your mind, but the band hasn't even released 8 more songs in 15 years.

    For my "creds", I have followed Wintersun since Ensiferum. I agree with everything @InHiding said with a single exception: I think the vocals (especially when all of them do different vocal parts) are top-notch. In fact, seeing them do vocals live is the only thing that sets Wintersun apart to me. Does that give the opinion more validity?

    Do I think Jari is trying to scam people? No. But that's about the same as saying I don't think Bernie Rico Jr. was trying to scam people. I also don't think Daikatana or Duke Nukem Forever devs were trying to ruin their projects. After a few years... or decades even, that is what it turns into. People get in over their heads with no way out besides delivering on promises. Do I hate the guy? No. Do I think what he is doing is unethical and selfish? Yes. He is taking advantage of people to improve his quality of life whether that is his intent or not. This is pretty much the same thing as a fancy church to me. Asking people to donate so they can preach how awesome they are.

    If your goal is just to throw money at an artist for something they did 16 years ago, I won't say you are wrong. If anything, that is really generous, and they are lucky you are a fan. But if you are saying that money is providing them the life-conditions they need to produce more in the future, well, that is dumb. At least with true "investors" (like Nuclear Blast), the people who support the artist are rewarded with profits if things pan out well (unlike Nuclear Blast). This kickstarter/patreon style is ridiculous though. Fans take all of the risk with none of the rewards. And that risk was taken *after* their investor publicly stated that they had stopped giving additional money and had the original project pulled down from Kickstarter.

    As mentioned in this thread, the only way to stop this kind of crappy behavior is for fans to stop buying into it or be more selective and critical about who they are buying into.
     
  14. Nag

    Nag chugs and screams

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    I'm sorry if I won't really react to the latest posts in this thread, or even the latest news on the whole Wintersun debacle, but... yeah, just emptying my thoughts here.

    I really want to like Jari Mäenpää. His first Wintersun album was great, the other Wintersun stuff isn't bad either, the two records he did with Ensiferum (especially the first one, for me, I know most people prefer Iron to the self-titled but eh). But what the serious fucking fuck. He's given countless updates on "Time" since 2006. Many of them being excuses (writer's block, computer stopped working...). But he said stuff in there that I do remember. Apparently, all the songs for "Time" ARE written. He said that at some point, I don't even want to look it back up because I friggin remember it. He even said they were recorded at some point as well. Or that some parts were recorded at least. I don't care how much of a perfectionist he is, and how many keyboard layered tracks his songs need. Either he lied, or he tossed away most of the material that should originally have been on "Time" (if not all of it) and started re-thinking the album entirely. Maybe he's a bit megalomaniac, too (that "maybe" mostly is me being polite). If you tell me he can't record his album with the average gear every musician can get, seriously, he needs to get some things straight.

    When he left Ensiferum, Petri Lindroos from Norther stepped in and Norther kinda started to suck (and Ensiferum became a bit weird) until they disbanded. Then Wintersun barely delivered anything. Maybe Jari should just keep on joining bands and recording self-titled albums, because IMO that's what he's done best in his career.
     
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  15. couverdure

    couverdure No Gear Day

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    Time II is to Jari as Star Citizen is to Chris Roberts.
     
  16. Frostod

    Frostod SS.org Regular

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    Well Star Citizen is playable in some form right now, Time II is not more than a promise.
     
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  17. Merrekof

    Merrekof SS.org Regular

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    A little off topic but I suddenly remember that project, God of Atheist. An all star Norwegian band with Asgeir, Ihsahn, Trym, Vortex.. I got hyped back in 2013 but all I ever heard from them was some studio and recording footage on youtube. They didn't, as far as I know, ask for any money. My best guess is they were writing and recording an album with only their own money, gear, time and passion.

    Wintersun has the biggest label and fans who literally throw money at them, yet they still can't release a new album. Why fans still support them is beyond me..
     
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  18. mehegama

    mehegama SS.org Regular

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    has anyone seen the latest update??? comedy gold
     
  19. Metropolis

    Metropolis SS.org Regular

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    Only comedy gold is the butthurt "fans" who are whining about the "facts" in facebook comment section :fawk: But he should probably get a new computer for running those hundreds of tracks he has, few years old computer with 16-core processor doesn't cut it anymore and plugins are getting more and more demanding in that regard.

    Jari's reaction to those :p;
     
  20. mehegama

    mehegama SS.org Regular

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    butthurt? I could not care less if he builds a villa in the carribean and fly away with the cf money. I enjoy wintersun but their operating model is a bit greedy
     

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