Wintersun's Groundhog's Day Thread

nightflameauto

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Out of curiosity, I took my new laptop, which was a cheapo I got on clearance, loaded up a DAW (Mixbus 32C, notoriously grumpy with resources on high track counts), popped in some string and brass and woodwind plugins, and built up a score of about thirty takes of midi, plus Addictive drums separated out to individual tracks for processing and three guitar tracks.

This is an 11th gen i5, 16 GB ram.

Guess what? Worked fine. Even with a bunch of mixing plugins.

What the fuck kind of shit is he pulling that he needs some monster system to mix it?
 

Sermo Lupi

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Out of curiosity, I took my new laptop, which was a cheapo I got on clearance, loaded up a DAW (Mixbus 32C, notoriously grumpy with resources on high track counts), popped in some string and brass and woodwind plugins, and built up a score of about thirty takes of midi, plus Addictive drums separated out to individual tracks for processing and three guitar tracks.

This is an 11th gen i5, 16 GB ram.

Guess what? Worked fine. Even with a bunch of mixing plugins.

What the fuck kind of shit is he pulling that he needs some monster system to mix it?

There's Jari's needs and then there's the sliding scale of what composers use in the music industry.

Here's an article on Hans Zimmer's setup from 10 years ago (2012). He had 2 computers for mixing, plus 14 separate servers with 24-64 gigs of RAM and 8-12 core processors for running the samples. Considering those specs are still impressive a decade later, I can only imagine what he's using in 2022.

Top studios aren't going to use clearance-grade laptops, let's not flatter ourselves here. Justified or not, Jari felt he needed a "professional" setup before he could get any work done and professional systems can be extraordinarily elaborate.
 

TedEH

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That's also a cherry-picked example of top-of-the-line stuff for movie scoring, which has different requirements than metal music production, and being done by people who have the resources and experience to push real boundaries. It's by no means an example of what is "needed" to produce what would otherwise be a straightforward metal album.
 

GunpointMetal

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Out of curiosity, I took my new laptop, which was a cheapo I got on clearance, loaded up a DAW (Mixbus 32C, notoriously grumpy with resources on high track counts), popped in some string and brass and woodwind plugins, and built up a score of about thirty takes of midi, plus Addictive drums separated out to individual tracks for processing and three guitar tracks.

This is an 11th gen i5, 16 GB ram.

Guess what? Worked fine. Even with a bunch of mixing plugins.

What the fuck kind of shit is he pulling that he needs some monster system to mix it?
It's called a "grift" and it's when you convince people you or your product are way more valuable than they actually are, then you waste the money on dumb shit and post moronic stuff like your TOTAL TRACK COUNT. I can't imagine writing a song bad enough that I thought I needed 450+ layers of what is surely mostly octaves/unisons of the same 4-5 lines.
 

nightflameauto

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There's Jari's needs and then there's the sliding scale of what composers use in the music industry.

Here's an article on Hans Zimmer's setup from 10 years ago (2012). He had 2 computers for mixing, plus 14 separate servers with 24-64 gigs of RAM and 8-12 core processors for running the samples. Considering those specs are still impressive a decade later, I can only imagine what he's using in 2022.

Top studios aren't going to use clearance-grade laptops, let's not flatter ourselves here. Justified or not, Jari felt he needed a "professional" setup before he could get any work done and professional systems can be extraordinarily elaborate.
Sure, sure, if you feel you need "professional" equipment, by all means. But pretending you are incapable of doing anything while justifying that lack of movement by saying you simply can not work without the best of the best of the bet? Bleh. Nonsense.

My point being, if you want to get the work done? You get it done. Regardless of whether you can afford the multi-million-dollar setup of someone like Hans Zimmer. And mentioning someone a prolific as Hans as a justification for whatever's going on here is pretty funny too.
 

TedEH

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I'd be willing to bet that if Zimmer, or someone similarly professional was short on resources and took on something too ambitious, he would still find a way to deliver the best that was possible with what was available, or reach out to appropriate help to get it done, or re-negotiate the scope of the project, etc etc etc.

There's a million and one ways to get around constraints - if anything, so much creativity stems from working within and around constraints - that's half the job. By definition, if you cannot think of a way through your constraints, then you are lacking creativity.
 

MaxOfMetal

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I don't know what's more pointless, the endless relitigation of the "technical difficulties" or folks defending it. Every 10 pages it's the same thread.
 

Sermo Lupi

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That's also a cherry-picked example of top-of-the-line stuff for movie scoring, which has different requirements than metal music production, and being done by people who have the resources and experience to push real boundaries. It's by no means an example of what is "needed" to produce what would otherwise be a straightforward metal album.

You're just regurgitating what I already said about Jari not needing a setup like that but couching it as a rebuttal as if I disagree. I don't.

However, if you think Hans Zimmer is the only composer with a setup more elaborate than a laptop bought on clearance, or that professional composers outside the film industry don't also have studio-grade computers, I don't know what to tell you. Bothering to cite a source of what a professional setup looks like (as outlined in an interview by a "Director of Musical Technology") is not cherry-picking.

Sure, sure, if you feel you need "professional" equipment, by all means. But pretending you are incapable of doing anything while justifying that lack of movement by saying you simply can not work without the best of the best of the bet? Bleh. Nonsense.

My point being, if you want to get the work done? You get it done. Regardless of whether you can afford the multi-million-dollar setup of someone like Hans Zimmer. And mentioning someone a prolific as Hans as a justification for whatever's going on here is pretty funny too.

As I already mentioned, Jari's justification for needing a studio-grade setup is worthy of criticism.

Studio-grade setups are pretty common in the music industry, however. Jari's idea to acquire one didn't come out of no where.
 

nightflameauto

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You're just regurgitating what I already said about Jari not needing a setup like that but couching it as a rebuttal as if I disagree. I don't.

However, if you think Hans Zimmer is the only composer with a setup more elaborate than a laptop bought on clearance, or that professional composers outside the film industry don't also have studio-grade computers, I don't know what to tell you. Bothering to cite a source of what a professional setup looks like (as outlined in an interview by a "Director of Musical Technology") is not cherry-picking.



As I already mentioned, Jari's justification for needing a studio-grade setup is worthy of criticism.

Studio-grade setups are pretty common in the music industry, however. Jari's idea to acquire one didn't come out of no where.
Sure, the idea didn't come from nowhere. But, again, there are a LOT of bands out there making albums on a lot less horsepower than a Zimmer level room full of equipment. Some of them are even the crazy symphonic metal bands.

I mean, in a perfect world I'd have a loaded workstation for my audio, and another loaded workstation for my graphics and writing. But, not having the money or the space for all that? I get by with a couple old beater laptops and a newer one. *SHRUG* The better equipment may help, but asking other people to fund it seems a bit out there to me. Even more out there is getting that money from others, then proceeding to do nothing with it.
 

TedEH

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You're just regurgitating what I already said about Jari not needing a setup like that but couching it as a rebuttal as if I disagree. I don't.
Relax, I was agreeing with you, and just adding that film scores have different requirements than metal recordings. :lol:
 

Sermo Lupi

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Sure, the idea didn't come from nowhere. But, again, there are a LOT of bands out there making albums on a lot less horsepower than a Zimmer level room full of equipment. Some of them are even the crazy symphonic metal bands.

I mean, in a perfect world I'd have a loaded workstation for my audio, and another loaded workstation for my graphics and writing. But, not having the money or the space for all that? I get by with a couple old beater laptops and a newer one. *SHRUG* The better equipment may help, but asking other people to fund it seems a bit out there to me. Even more out there is getting that money from others, then proceeding to do nothing with it.

I don't disagree with any of that, you can make do with less and it's a sliding scale like I said before.

Without in any way putting Jari's music on the same level, it's notable that Michael Romeo's setup for Symphony X is Cubase running on his mixing machine with "Vienna Ensemble Pro networked across multiple computers for the big orchestral stuff and sound design" (from a 2018 interview here; he's talked about it in greater depth elsewhere). Romeo is a great example of the type of musician you're talking about, who made do with less earlier on in his career, but with a goal to improve the production values of his music over time. Eventually, he did reach a point where he needed multiple computers to run his sample libraries, just like professional composers and orchestrators (of which I'd consider Romeo to be one).

In Jari's case, it's his general slipperiness that's the issue. He strikes me as someone who thinks he has to have the best to be the best, as opposed to someone like Romeo, who found himself in a place where he's fortunate enough to chase the diminishing returns of orchestral music production because he's been at the top of his game for a long time.

My point is just that you do see these elaborate computer setups in many professional contexts. I don't doubt its necessary in many cases and that a modest laptop or home computer wouldn't do. However, I agree Jari put the cart before the horse in his case.

Relax, I was agreeing with you, and just adding that film scores have different requirements than metal recordings. :lol:

Fair enough, I guess I read your post as being more hostile than it was.
 

GunpointMetal

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There's Jari's needs and then there's the sliding scale of what composers use in the music industry.

Here's an article on Hans Zimmer's setup from 10 years ago (2012). He had 2 computers for mixing, plus 14 separate servers with 24-64 gigs of RAM and 8-12 core processors for running the samples. Considering those specs are still impressive a decade later, I can only imagine what he's using in 2022.

Top studios aren't going to use clearance-grade laptops, let's not flatter ourselves here. Justified or not, Jari felt he needed a "professional" setup before he could get any work done and professional systems can be extraordinarily elaborate.
Hans Zimmer also didn't crowdfund his studio, and he has a long history of work to back up his need for the stuff. Wintersun is a niche of a niche of a niche and have what? Three albums in 20 years?
 

SamSam

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I like Wintersun. But to compare Jari to Zimmer in any creative metric is preposterous.

Bar excuses and grift. Jari takes that one.
 


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