Windows 10

asher

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I'm an IS/IT guy who uses Windows 7/8/Server 2012 everyday, either at work or at home.

I don't really understand all the hate on Windows 8, nor do I understand the thing with the Start menu...

I'm mean, you don't have to use any metro apps. They're there if you want them, but nobody's forcing them on you!

And about the start menu? Hit the "windows" button on your keyboard and start typing the name of the application/configuration window/file you want. Click "Enter". That's it! What's not to love about that simplicity? I can't really qualify this... except that maybe Microsoft should have found some way to educate their users better.

All of this.

You can totally ignore the corner stuff. I almost never browse the Start menu on older versions of Windows, I hit the Windows key and type search.

Also, most of the options from the right side bar have a Windows key + [x] hotkey. IE Winkey + C opens the controls tab...
 

Winspear

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Indeed. I haven't even noticed this 'ribbon' thing either. I'm liking Windows 8 fine in the week I've had it!
 

HeHasTheJazzHands

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My biggest complaint about Windows 8.1 is the search feature. It doesn't seem to work as well as the Windows 7 version for me.

EDIT: I said "never", but that's a bit hyperbolic. It DOES work for most programs, but when it comes to searching files, it doesn't work as well.
 

The Q

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I'm an IS/IT guy who uses Windows 7/8/Server 2012 everyday, either at work or at home.

I don't really understand all the hate on Windows 8, nor do I understand the thing with the Start menu...

I'm mean, you don't have to use any metro apps. They're there if you want them, but nobody's forcing them on you!

And about the start menu? Hit the "windows" button on your keyboard and start typing the name of the application/configuration window/file you want. Click "Enter". That's it! What's not to love about that simplicity? I can't really qualify this... except that maybe Microsoft should have found some way to educate their users better.

Likewise, I use Windows 8 & Server 2012 both at work and home. The rest of the company uses Windows 7, but for our branch I settled on Windows 8. None of my coworkers have expressed and complains about the OS when I asked them for an upgrade. It's time for another upgrade next week; it'll be interesting to see if anyone wants to downgrade.
 

ghostred7

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I'm still willing to give 10 a chance...but will wait for retail version. I'm down my test drive now (swappable trays so i can do fresh installs) due to lending it to someone and won't try this preview on the main drive. A friend of mine has been a MS Developer for like 30 years. I'll let him do this tech preview for me.

As for 8:
I'll give benefit of the doubt to maybe there were some early inconsistencies with the apps I used or maybe there were some memory leak things going on. It could be better after 1st patch run. In my environment, Win7 ran higher benchmarks than 8 for rendering, broadband speed tests, etc. I have similar results (at least on bandwidth tests) when going between Linux Mint & Win7.

I just didn't like it for a desktop workhorse. On initial release, it didn't perform as well in my environment than Win7 did. On the touch-screen tablets that are out....it's perfect and I would prefer that over any other incarnation of Windows for that. My dislike for it has NOTHING to do with the GUI really. I mean, I don't like it...but it's not a show-stopper. I always prefer performance over looks when it comes to OS. Hell, I still run blackbox for my linux machine if i need to max out performance (barely > console lol).
 

rectifryer

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Most stable version of windows I have had so far is windows 7 installed on a linux host as a virtual machine. That way, all the back end shit is easily monitored.
 

schecter58

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From what I have read 10 has potential to be what 8, 8.1 should of been.
 

Xaios

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From what I have read 10 has potential to be what 8, 8.1 should of been.

Microsoft should just use this as their marketing pitch: "Windows 10 is to Windows 8 what Windows 7 was to Windows Vista." :lol:
 

asher

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Microsoft should just use this as their marketing pitch: "Windows 10 is to Windows 8 what Windows 7 was to Windows Vista." :lol:

Between the way 8 was repped and the way the XB1 was repped, I think MS could use some turnover in their marketing department...
 

coffeeflush

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Does anyone think windows OS's have backdoors installed for the NSA and other govt agencies ?
 

coffeeflush

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To be honest, I never understood all those people that could not work with Windows 8(.1), provided they stick to the applications they used in Windows 7 and avoid Metro ones unless they have a table.

Not only you can boot straight to desktop as it has been pointed out, you can even get replacement start menu applications that can fill the void. With that in mind and seeing as how I rarely click start apart from when I want to search something (which I got used within 5 minutes), I cannot understand the "loss of productivity" argument.
To get to the core of my point however, one needs to leave Metro outside his normal workflow. The good news is that you can do that with Windows 8.1 and only very specific parts require any Metro interaction at all (e.g. connecting to a VPN).

A friend of mine got a completely new powerhouse of a PC last month and yet he installed Windows 7 on it*. The fact that his cognitive dissonance didn't allow him to even TEST the damn OS yet made him have an opinion about it, speaks wonders of my frustration... And no, he didn't have any prior experience with it; he just read about how bad Windows 8 is.




7stg, I honestly don't get the point of reiterating the almost 10-year old IE toolbar hell or the Fisher price pictures? It doesn't make your argument more valid. However, you make 2 arguments that I'd like to address:
1) "I cannot stand the Metro UI"
2) "I cannot stand the Ribbon"

1. I think we've established that you can avoid the Metro UI almost completely.

2. I will agree with the argument that the ribbon takes valuable space and personally I'd like to see other options (such as being able to have it vertically). But as for requiring more clicks, compared to the menu driven hell? Come on - in Word, getting to the paragraphs dialog requires a simple click compared to 2 for the menus. An additional capability that menus don't really have (yet it's not realised completely) is that the Ribbon it can become context-sensitive, minimising the time you need to search for stuff.
The only real downside the ribbon has is that it takes some time getting used to, though I'll argue that since 7 years ago where it was first introduced, not only it has improved but pretty much anyone who used let's say Word since 2010 can be efficient enough with it.

While a fan of open source, LibreOffice is not even on the same league with Word and personally speaking, I wouldn't change an application just because it stopped using menus.

Finally, as for saying that Win10 "tries to bring 7 into 10", I think they simply decided to change direction with Metro since it was a bad move anyway. But no, Windows 7 doesn't have some kind of magical stardust that makes it so much better than Windows 8, especially sans Metro and an OS is much more than a Start menu, especially if you are someone like me who either uses taskbar buttons (usually with the WIN+number shortcuts) or a quick press to start, typing of a search term and then Enter.







Not all features are unusable in Windows 8; ESPECIALLY the low level improvements (read "higher performance"). Paying for a new OS is another matter entirely (I purposefully didn't include any prices here in order to not taint the arguments) and personal one at that.

Let me add an anecdote in regards to stability. I have a TV Tuner which apparently doesn't like some of my USB ports and it will crash at random times. Change it to another port and everything works smoothly, no BSOD for months now. Add other components to those USB ports; no problem. I wish I knew what the hell was going on.**


* Thank you enterprise MSDN licenses!
** That happened with Win7 as well.


Lot of the apps I used,

FL studio
foobar2000
hydrogen
draft sight

They work terribly with win 8, the boot times are amazing compared to 7. The app performance is absolutely horrible.
 

Dominoes282

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Does anyone think windows OS's have backdoors installed for the NSA and other govt agencies ?

It's not impossible, but unlikely. You'd think people would pick up that activity when doing a wireshark scan, unless they figured out how to transmit data without using packets.
 

7stg

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Does anyone think windows OS's have backdoors installed for the NSA and other govt agencies ?

Yes, at minimum they have been approached. Linus Torvalds who heads Linux has been approached but refused.

Edit, here is the video see 24:15

 

flint757

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So far win 10 seems to be a major improvement to 8, but for me, the fact that 7 does not have the ribbon is enough to stay with 7. I have avoided upgrading office on my personal computers because of the ribbon, work has upgraded and I am familiar with how it works, It's just slower with more clicks to get anything done plus it takes up a lot of the screen which is really bad on a laptop. LibreOffice is a good substitute too.

I personally loved the way the folder system was designed in windows 8. One of the few things I really miss when I went back to 7 (that and windows+x menu). Ribbons don't bother me and in most applications only slow down people who got used to doing it the old way. For me it's just as fast, if not faster, to use a ribbon. In most applications IMO it is quite intuitive like modelling or video software. It allows the most used tools to be present on single tabs and for instance I'm not going to be texturing or animating while modelling so it nicely tucks those away until I want to use them. For word, excel, etc. once you get used to it there isn't any slow down for me in the slightest. In most applications, including the OS, I use shortcuts anyhow making the GUI irrelevant really.

Above all the highly praised stability and performance. NO. Windows 8.1s Driver system, for me and other uses, causes massive stability problem where the computer just decides to switch off randomly and without further warning. MS claims your PSU is broken...sure it broke the second 8.1 installed and sometimes runs perfectly fine for hours under high stress other times breaks after 2 minutes. As cause for the crash the system tells me my GPU driver...i guess there is a problem with my SLI setup (460GTX in SLI) and the 8.1 Nvidia driver. Still though not the best sign.
Only thing kinda interesting about 10 is DirectX12 and that might come to 8.1 as well.

I honestly blame the poor user count on this. Companies are profit driven so they simply didn't put as much energy into windows 8 leaving many 3rd party applications/ tools broken or not working. In that regard it was really unstable, but that isn't really Microsoft's fault either. Nvidia has dropped the ball for the past couple years when it comes to their power users. SLI has been a nightmare on 7 and 8 for me, especially multi-monitor and 3D. The amount of workarounds to get the drivers working well enough was ridiculous and towards the end I couldn't on 7 or 8 get 3D Surround to work in SLI anymore. Frustrated me so much I just upgraded to a single card setup (maybe that was their idea :lol:)

A friend of mine got a completely new powerhouse of a PC last month and yet he installed Windows 7 on it*. The fact that his cognitive dissonance didn't allow him to even TEST the damn OS yet made him have an opinion about it, speaks wonders of my frustration... And no, he didn't have any prior experience with it; he just read about how bad Windows 8 is.

I switched back not because I didn't like it, but because of some incompatibility issues do to lower user count and 8 being somewhat new. Some of the software I use wasn't compatible with it yet, and then again with 8.1, and I got tired of being a beta tester for all of my software essentially. I personally dislike the GUI in 7 and hate aero.

2. I will agree with the argument that the ribbon takes valuable space and personally I'd like to see other options (such as being able to have it vertically). But as for requiring more clicks, compared to the menu driven hell? Come on - in Word, getting to the paragraphs dialog requires a simple click compared to 2 for the menus. An additional capability that menus don't really have (yet it's not realised completely) is that the Ribbon it can become context-sensitive, minimising the time you need to search for stuff.
The only real downside the ribbon has is that it takes some time getting used to, though I'll argue that since 7 years ago where it was first introduced, not only it has improved but pretty much anyone who used let's say Word since 2010 can be efficient enough with it.

Yeah, I like the ribbon as well. Even if some don't they are going to have to suck it up because almost every application utilizes some sort of ribbon. It is becoming standardized which is exactly why it was used in 8 in the first place. In 8 I loved the file folder ribbon. It contained system tools, settings, etc. that required a few more clicks to get to in 7. The task manager was just beautiful. I really miss 8.

Sadly I probably won't adopt 10 right away either though. I can't deal with 3rd party screw ups in my work environment and new OS's seem to come with a butt load of them.


My biggest complaint about Windows 8.1 is the search feature. It doesn't seem to work as well as the Windows 7 version for me.

EDIT: I said "never", but that's a bit hyperbolic. It DOES work for most programs, but when it comes to searching files, it doesn't work as well.

My only complaint about 8.1 is how they changed the sidebar in the file folder. I liked 8 better and 7 best of all. When I accidentally downloaded 8.1 (thank you obnoxious pop up) I was so disappointed how much harder it was for me to navigate through my 6 hard drives and card readers. That may have been fixable though. Didn't get a chance to try since 8.1 was incompatible with some of the software I use at the time.
 

wat

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On the new office computer with windows 8, i downloaded Classic Shell, which makes it like a customizable old-style start menu.

Works great.
 


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