Will the 5150 and recto always be the gold standard?

HeHasTheJazzHands

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But both of the guitars are 6 string. The Agile Septor I have I don't remember the exact model so if the one I listed was the name of a 7 string model than my bad.

Oh I misread then. :lol: And yeah, guitar resonance can play a part. People who tell you "eMgS mAkE eVeRyThInG sOuNd tHe sAmE" are bullshitting you. Ive had EMG guitars that sounded godlike, and some that sounded dogshit.
 

Jeff

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How much were Marks going for in the market in the early 90s when the 5150 came out? If Marks were only more accessible than a Recto, I think that would replace the Recto as the Gold Standard.

But then, it's a bitch to dial in. lol

Not if you can read. :D
 

Spinedriver

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Oh I misread then. :lol: And yeah, guitar resonance can play a part. People who tell you "eMgS mAkE eVeRyThInG sOuNd tHe sAmE" are bullshitting you. Ive had EMG guitars that sounded godlike, and some that sounded dogshit.

I'd agree with that. I have an LTD MH and a Fernandez Ravelle that both have EMGs in them and although they do sound somewhat similar, there is a perceptible difference.
 

Ozzfest

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Oh I misread then. :lol: And yeah, guitar resonance can play a part. People who tell you "eMgS mAkE eVeRyThInG sOuNd tHe sAmE" are bullshitting you. Ive had EMG guitars that sounded godlike, and some that sounded dogshit.
I wonder if I make the tweaks to get the two guitars as equal as possible, they would sound more similar. Pickup height probably has alot to do with it, since I do remember lowering them in the past. Yeah the sound is different because they perceived output levels are different but if I raise the pickups in the Agile to where both guitars are equally hot sounding, then it might be back to "yeah emgs make all guitars sound the same".
 

Genome

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"By 1990, along with the assistance of Bob Rock, Hetfield perfected the scooped-midrange studio tone that he had been seeking since 1983. He discovered that utilizing the midrange frequencies straight from a modified Marshall amplifier, layered over guitar tracks of his trusty Mesa/Boogie MarkIIC+ as well as the Mesa/Boogie MarkIV, plus an ADA MP-1 preamp and a Mesa/Boogie Strategy 400 poweramp, he would get a much thicker and richer tone. He enhanced the frequencies by enclosing his four Marshall 1960B speaker cabinets with foam walls and U-Haul blankets, and carefully phase-canceled particular frequencies with eight closely-positioned microphones and two ambient condenser microphones."

https://www.guitarworld.com/gear/secrets-behind-metallica-sad-but-true
"AMPS: Mesa/Boogie Mark IIC++ (Volume 1: 9.5, Treble: 5/pull shift, Bass: 2, Middle: 0, Master 1: 4/pull deep, Lead Drive: 6/pull lead, Lead Master: 4, Presence: 3, Graphic EQ: 80: +2, 240: 0, 750: -12, 2200: 0, 6600: +3), modified Marshall JCM800 (settings unknown), Mesa/Boogie Mark IV (settings unknown), ADA MP-1 preamp, Mesa/Boogie Strategy 400 power amp"


Depends on who you asked and when. I own the amps... several of each, including the MKIIC++ HRG and DRG... they are not what you hear on the majority of the Black Album. Maybe with the preamp out slaved in to a Marshall power amp and a bunch of post production and eq tricks.... but not even then 100%. I am not going from internet conjecture. I have the amps in front of me. Black Album = MKIV (mostly). You can also come close with a modified Triaxis with a custom Mesa rack dual eq thru a Marshall EL34 100 power amp and even a MB 2:90. Side to side with the amps in front of you, it's easy to hear which amp is on this album.

James Hetfield himself saying they used Mark II's is conjecture?
 

Seabeast2000

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James and Kirk could sell MoP and Black kemper profiles. Or is that already done by someone else?
 

Wizard of Ozz

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James Hetfield himself saying they used Mark II's is conjecture?

First off it wasn't a MKII... it was a MKIIC++ so that is flat out wrong, whoever said it. Huge difference between those 2 amps. Even between a MKIIC+ and MKIIC++. That's a fact. Second, it was not a straight-up MKIIC++ in to 4X12 and micced to the board. It was the preamp out, in to a bunch of additional eq boxes, in to a separate power amp, and lots of post production magic. Also tracked/layered together with and mixed with other amps. Do some research, believe what you want... I spent lots of time and money testing the amps... which I have in front of me. Not just reposting stuff I read online.

ZunJJuI.jpg


N59CiFb.jpg


These are a few of the MKIIC++s and MKIII++s I own. Not just read about. A MKIIC++ HRG is spot on perfect for MOP though.
 
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MASS DEFECT

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First off it wasn't a MKII... it was a MKIIC++ so that is flat out wrong, whoever said it. Huge difference between those 2 amps. Even between a MKIIC+ and MKIIC++. That's a fact. Second, it was not a straight-up MKIIC++ in to 4X12 and micced to the board. It was the preamp out, in to a bunch of additional eq boxes, in to a separate power amp, and lots of post production magic. Also tracked/layered together with and mixed with other amps. Do some research, believe what you want... I spent lots of time and money testing the amps... which I have in front of me. Not just reposting stuff I read online.

ZunJJuI.jpg


N59CiFb.jpg


These are a few of the MKIIC++s and MKIII++s I own. Not just read about. A MKIIC++ HRG is spot on perfect for MOP though.


Wow! What a collection!!! Does your Jp2C get close to the IIC++?
 

c7spheres

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- The MOP tone is great, don't get me wrong, but it's not worth chasing it. I like my tone better from my Boogie and VHt setup personally. But that's to each his own and just a personal preference which doesn't mean much.
- Metallica could have any tone they want and they haven't used that tone in 35 years. Plus, do they really know what they actually used? Serously, I mean for all we know they are chasing it down themselves because they never got that tone ever again, they didn't produce the album and they were so wasted all the time they probably had little to do with all the actual processes, imo. They probably know they used the C++ etc, but do they remember the mics, positioning, rooms used, console settings, takes, patchbay, outboard gear etc? I bet they would be very hard pressed to actually obtain this tone on thier own in a studio with absolutely zero help at all from anyone at all. I mean zero help at all. It would probably be just as hard for them to write a song like it belongs on MOP again too without help. That's what makes MOP and albums like this so special. They just can't be duplicated.
 

KnightBrolaire

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James and Kirk could sell MoP and Black kemper profiles. Or is that already done by someone else?
there's a pile of profile sellers that offer mark profiles. Only some of them actually managed to approximate the MoP tone imo. Pete Turley has some great IIC+ coliseum profiles and Thumas had some really good free MkIII profiles on the rig exchange.
 

Genome

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First off it wasn't a MKII... it was a MKIIC++ so that is flat out wrong, whoever said it. Huge difference between those 2 amps. Even between a MKIIC+ and MKIIC++. That's a fact. Second, it was not a straight-up MKIIC++ in to 4X12 and micced to the board. It was the preamp out, in to a bunch of additional eq boxes, in to a separate power amp, and lots of post production magic. Also tracked/layered together with and mixed with other amps. Do some research, believe what you want... I spent lots of time and money testing the amps... which I have in front of me. Not just reposting stuff I read online.

ZunJJuI.jpg


N59CiFb.jpg


These are a few of the MKIIC++s and MKIII++s I own. Not just read about. A MKIIC++ HRG is spot on perfect for MOP though.

Hetfield saying it's a Mark II doesn't mean he's saying it's not a IIC++.

I'm not denying you've got good ear, and that's an impressive collection, but a quote from the guy who was actually in the studio playing through the amp is not "just reading about it". It's straight from the horse's mouth.

Anyway, Hetfield apparently blew the original transformer on the IIC++ and had it replaced with a Mark IV transformer just before TBA. Maybe that's what you're hearing.
 

Ozzfest

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Someone once said, it is the harshness/fizziness that makes the sound cut through the mix. Really so guitars can't cut through the mix without sounding fizzy? Do alot of mids automatically equal fizz?
 

MrWulf

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it depends on the genre, obv. Some fizz may help in a dense mix. Most of the time it can be distracting.
 

GunpointMetal

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Someone once said, it is the harshness/fizziness that makes the sound cut through the mix. Really so guitars can't cut through the mix without sounding fizzy? Do alot of mids automatically equal fizz?
There is different kinds of fizz, too. Some high-gain heads have a certain threshold with the treble/presence controls where it goes from a "sizzle" in the sound, to "fizz" on top of it. Older amp modelers often exhibit the "disconnected fizz" when the gain is pushed.
 

KailM

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Someone once said, it is the harshness/fizziness that makes the sound cut through the mix. Really so guitars can't cut through the mix without sounding fizzy? Do alot of mids automatically equal fizz?

I’ve always used an EQ in the loop to cut the fizz of my 6505s/5153. They still cut through a mix like nobody’s business...
 

Ozzfest

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I’ve always used an EQ in the loop to cut the fizz of my 6505s/5153. They still cut through a mix like nobody’s business...
Can you use a helix or gt1000 or other multi fx pedals to essentially do the same thing? Also, which frequencies did you have to cut that were causing the fizz? Hoping I can use one of my mfx pedal to cut the fizz on my 6505
 


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