Why don't Les Pauls usually have 24 frets or floyd roses?

Discussion in 'Standard Guitars' started by olsonuf, Aug 17, 2012.

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  1. Murmel

    Murmel SS.org Regular

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    The reason they still sell so well is because they ARE really good. They weren't good just in the past decades, they're still amazing, versatile, good sounding instruments. I can't find many things I'd like to improve on my strat, the general design is very good. A hard tail had been nice, but that's just personal preference.
    Seriously, with a strat and a Les Paul you're fit for almost any type of situation that might happen.

    This thread is just going to turn into another "Fender and Gibson suck because they're too old-fashioned"-threads. I knew it from the start.

    I do agree however that it would be nice if they could make some different models out of old designs, like Floyd Rose equipped LP's etc. But if there isn't a market for it, and they've tried it, then there's not much you can say or do about it.
     
  2. olsonuf

    olsonuf Fretaholic

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    You're probably right. That really wasn't my intention, but I have to wonder... Maybe they don't sell b/c Gibson only offers ONE model like that and then treats it like an oddity. Almost all anyone ever sees is the standard 22-fret/ToM setup, stores rarely stock them, & then both Gibson and the stores sit back & say "we tried but it didn't sell!" I would call that:

    1) Barely trying
    2) wasting their investment w/ a half-assed effort

    It's not going to sell when they continue to turn their noses up at the idea; it undermines any "trying" they've done to sell it.

    ESP came along and offered an edgier version w/ Floyd option b/c there obviously IS a demand for this.

    One last thing about tone: I'm sure there is something to the "tone = ToM" claim, but there is very little in the way of tone that can't be compensated for w/ amp & effects settings, even w/ half-decent pickups. Tone is all too often blown out of proportion.
     
  3. Murmel

    Murmel SS.org Regular

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    I think one of the reasons it worked for ESP was because they have a different clientele, ie mostly metal and rock players. A lot of metal and rock guitarists play Gibson too, but they don't make up the majority.

    It would be interesting to see if a Gibson Studio version with a Floyd would sell, unless they've already tried that.
     
  4. PyramidSmasher

    PyramidSmasher Chess Dragon

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  5. olsonuf

    olsonuf Fretaholic

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    Maybe they also don't sell because they're like $4k when they do make one. If I'm gonna shell out 4 grand for a guitar, it wouldn't be just to be a fanboy.

    Edit: of all the guitars I've ever played, I've noticed that price stops making a difference in quality beyond about $1,500. Anything priced above that without being a custom job is just a trophy with an expensive logo.
     
  6. Greatoliver

    Greatoliver Looking to windward

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    Also, how many of you would buy a super strat by Gibson? I think part of it is that there is a massive association with Gibson to the classic shapes: Vs, LPs, explorers etc. There is a history there, and people expect to see the same thing over and over again from Gibson. This is probably why more adventurous stuff hasn't worked that well, and maybe why themselves don't want to change the image they have.

    Hell, if my RG had Gibson on the headstock, I would probably think it sounded darker and warmer than it really did. I think the models they make reinforce an attitude to their guitars which helps them sell guitars. They don't need to make different kinds of guitars, being a very popular brand, and it may even be damaging to start producing things that are radically different. And to people who like LPs, etc, adding a floyd and 2 frets is radically different, considering how much discussion there is about the effect upon tone. Gibson are appealing to a stereotype as to maximise it - and it pays off.
     
  7. BucketheadRules

    BucketheadRules Fuzz pedal hoarder

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    I drew this a few months ago, and I wish I could see/play it IRL:

    [​IMG]

    It's a Les Paul, but with what I see as the ideal improvements -

    24 BIG frets
    Neck thru
    Still with a fixed bridge (because fixed bridge is best bridge)
    5-way selector to allow for more tonal variations
    Headstock angled less far backwards to reduce chances of breakage
    Contouring all over body for comfort
    Weight relieved - with much of the chambering focused in the bottom half of the body for better balance (theoretically)
    A variant on the Washburn Stephens Extended Cutaway for much better fret access
    Comes in trans blue :lol:

    There would also be the option of a Floyd Rose, for the degenerate scum who are into that sort of thing. ;):lol:



    Broadly speaking that is, in my opinion, how the Les Paul should have evolved over the years.

    As with everything though, it's just, like, my opinion, man.
     
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  8. -42-

    -42- Nothing to see here

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  9. olsonuf

    olsonuf Fretaholic

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    Well said. From a business standpoint I have to admire how well they've done this, regardless of whether or not I share the aesthetic.

    I'll just have to go w/ an ESP Custom Shop order, it seems.

    Thanks to everyone for your input; I have a clearer idea of why LP style guitars don't generally even offer these options.

    Oh well, I'm just in Gibson's target market. :)


    Wow that is a WONDERFUL guitar - I'd still want a floating trem - but I'd totally buy this guitar while I'm waiting for the trem version to come out. As you can probably tell from my avatar, I'm definitely into the Stephen's Extended Cutaway - every guitar should have this!
     
  10. 3074326

    3074326 Local Astronaut

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    They've tried many times. There isn't a huge demand from Gibson players for Floyd-style bridges. We have one at work and it's the cleanest guitar on the wall because nobody ever touches it. It's not worth it for them. Gibson and ESP don't have the same customers. They compete to an extent, but they're so different in terms of feel/history/etc. that Gibson just doesn't have a huge Floyd market.

    Gibson Shred Les Paul Studio with Hardshell Case | Sam Ash Music 1-800-4-SAMASH
     
  11. MstrH

    MstrH Arrogantly Average

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    :mike::cheers:
     
  12. DslDwg

    DslDwg SS.org Regular

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    What I notice is that people that actually buy Gibson Les Pauls want those classic features. 22 frets, 24.75 scale, hard tail, set neck. If you vary any of those features you may gain a few customers but probably lose many more.

    Guys over on the Warmoth board have built some gorgeous Les Paul shaped guitars from the Warmoth parts. The couple that have tried to show them off on the Gibson boards just get torn to pieces. The purists who make up the majority of the buyers of the Gibson don't like to change and Gibson gives them what they want. As the saying goes they know where their bread is buttered.
     
  13. Murmel

    Murmel SS.org Regular

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  14. olsonuf

    olsonuf Fretaholic

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    Again, I'd call that "barely trying" many times. Every time they do it it's been in the same ineffective, self-defeating way, with one model at a time. Again, I understand that's just the aesthetic they've created and that continues to work for them, and people like it. Mostly because of the aesthetic, but partially because people are conditioned to look for those traits in a Les Paul thanks to Gibson.

    The one you linked to finally has a reasonable price tag. (still missing 2 frets though!) :D

    You're right though, it's just a different target market, and Gibson apparently isn't targeting players like me. Which sucks really, because I'd really like to enjoy a Les Paul but I want these features so I guess it's not happening. :cool:

    For me it has to have BOTH 24 frets and a floyd. Preferably neck-thru also, although I've gotten slightly less militant about that one.
     
  15. fwd0120

    fwd0120 Bipedal Hominid

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    Why get a LP with those features when you could just get an RG? :yesway:
    Check out my sig. :lol:
     
  16. McBrain

    McBrain SS.org Regular

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    I'm sorry to rain on your parade, but...

    [​IMG]

    I would still prefer Megan Fox's head on her own body, though.
     
  17. HeHasTheJazzHands

    HeHasTheJazzHands greg rulz ok

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    Because most of the time, RGs are Basswood with a 25.5 maple bolt on neck and Les Paums are mahogany/maple with a 24.7in mahogany set neck. Put on a FR and 24 frets on the LP and you still get those core features.

    Also, I think a Les Paul body "fits" me better compared to the RG.
     
  18. InfinityCollision

    InfinityCollision SS.org Regular

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    Four octaves, if we're talking the full fretted range. On that note, many still don't. Going that high is rare outside of the shred-solo community. Going lower is still niche over half a century since its introduction to the contemporary world.

    Guitar players are a pretty traditional bunch as a whole, though this can be easy to forget when you're on a forum dominated by seven+ string guitarists playing some form of rock or metal. There may also be a limit to what can reasonably be done in terms of overall shapes due to simple ergonomics. Gibson and Fender have pretty much cornered the market on the distillations of many such shapes and appeal to a broad audience in doing so.
     
  19. DslDwg

    DslDwg SS.org Regular

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    I understand your point I'm just curious should Gibson or Fender try to out Ibanez, Ibanez?

    Speaking of which how about Ibanez - huge catalog but when it comes down to it

    Basswood Bodies
    Black
    Maple / Bolt on Necks
    Rosewood F/B's
    Lots of Middle Pick-ups
    Craptastic Pick-ups
    25.5" Scales.

    I know there are exceptions - but there are for Gibson and Fender as well.

    Just sayin' if I want an Ibanez with an all mahogany neck - thru and an ebony board with 24.75" scale how many options do I have?
     
  20. HeHasTheJazzHands

    HeHasTheJazzHands greg rulz ok

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    If you dont mind the lack of ebony, you have four. :p

    Ibanez.com | Electric Guitars | ART
     
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