What game are you playing?

Discussion in 'Computers, Electronics, IT & Gaming' started by mark520, Jun 10, 2011.

  1. CovertSovietBear

    CovertSovietBear Lord Bagel Supreme

    Messages:
    406
    Likes Received:
    255
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Location:
    Neo Japan
    Depending on your expectations going in, non linear games can suck too. Prime 1 comes to mind with the Chozo artifact quest at the end. Prime 2 handled it much better, yet also enjoyed Fusion and that was definitely linear.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
    StevenC likes this.
  2. StevenC

    StevenC Javier Strat 8 2022

    Messages:
    6,059
    Likes Received:
    6,362
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Yeah, I don't care much about linearity in games. A good game is a good game. To me it really depends on play conditioning and how replayable it's supposed to be. This game feels like it's telling you from the first screen that you will visit a place, find the path blocked and have to come back, and then shows you items you can't reach then gives you a power up that doesn't help you reach it yet, but does help you with a different powerup. This to me feels like telling the player very clearly that you not only need to back track but that there are bonuses to it as well. Whereas the closest Super gets is the Crateria map room leading you to a brick wall, I don't know if I'd have figured out how to get through it without knowledge of the Metroid tropes. Then it's got the nonsense around with the energy tank behind the charge beam. And then at the end a fake wall that looks like every other wall and no precedent for fake walls in the game.

    Having played Super and Samus Returns over the past week maybe I'm just in a heightened state of shooting every block and exhausting every way forward out of interest. On the other hand, I don't really ever want to play Super Metroid again because it's got so much unintuitive "just remember this from 2 hours ago" nonsense in it that feels like padding. Whereas Samus Returns you get a new upgrade, teleport to the first area and run through the game so far to the little icons to get your rewards.

    I don't think either of those games do it perfectly, Super being too obtuse and SR being too telegraphed. But this is a better balance. Super you get a dot in the square where the item is that doesn't change after you get the item. SR you get a circle in a bit too specific a place because the map is a bit more detailed, but it disappears when you get the item. DREAD, you have to get into the general area before it tells you there's something and it gives you a very large box to check that covers more than one map square equivalent.

    In Super you look at the map and you remember how many slog rooms you have to navigate to the place with the thing. Not so much here despite a bigger and more complicated map so far. Though that could be down to better movement and combat for my modern taste.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
  3. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

    Messages:
    9,103
    Likes Received:
    6,316
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2007
    Location:
    Gatineau, Quebec
    Agreed with everything you said, although re: linearity,
    (mild spoilers, but more about design expectations than actual content)
    I think Dread is a lot more linear than other Metroid games I've played, just not in a blatant way. I've reached what I think is the final stretch of the game (I have most of the powers, etc)., and what I've noticed is that the backtracking teeeeeechnically happens, but the sort of 'golden path' through the game is guided, and you can see those pushes in the right direction if you know what to look for. Almost every time you discover a new purple transportation zone, for example, it's because the next thing you're intended to do is near whatever is on the other end of it. In some cases, you do need to backtrack, but it's through an area that has been re-contextualized and then sealed off so that there's only one way to go. Other times, just before you get a new power, you're gated into an area so that the only escape back to the greater map is to get the powerup and use it to escape. I never came across an instance where I was able to explore off the path very far without making some kind of progress since powerup gates are plentiful and tightly placed. An argument could be made that it's not really "backtracking" so much as just "very circular". It's true that the game never blatantly tells you what to do, and you CAN go off the intended path, and maybe there are multiple paths to completion, and maybe I just got really lucky. It checks the boxes. But at the same time, this is no Prime 1 or Super level of backtracking and getting lost and needing to really explore to figure out what to do next. The combination of the map giving you a lot of detail, and the pathways through the world being pretty tightly designed means you can almost always just go "ok, where are there blocks that match the thing I just discovered, or a big chunk of empty map I haven't explored but have access to", and the next place you're supposed to be is probably staring you in the face.
     
  4. StevenC

    StevenC Javier Strat 8 2022

    Messages:
    6,059
    Likes Received:
    6,362
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Yes, I agree.

    As soon as I went back into the game after getting the Varia suit it blocks my path around the first area, forcing me back to the second area, then guiding me right to the boss, then spitting me out of the boss to an area where I can only use a new teleporter to the third area.

    So I ate my words pretty quickly on that one.
     
    TedEH likes this.
  5. Jarmake

    Jarmake Frost Giant

    Messages:
    1,226
    Likes Received:
    437
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Location:
    Oulu, Finland
    I am back in business with Bloodborne. It took a few tries (or a couple more...) to end the Orphan of Kos' misery, but I did it eventually. What an angry guy... As a bonus he looked like an old shriveled lady who has been in the sun a bit too much. Not to say that I am a beautiful person myself! Oh well...

    There are now 2 left. Gehrman and Moon Presence. I went after Gehrman immediately after the orphan. Didn't surrender to him, so he got angry and started poking me with a scythe. I almost had him on the first try, he had like one little stabby stab with my +10 Ludwig's holy blade left in him, but that old son of a diddly pulled an old fashioned at me and he was a bit faster than my tired sideways roll, so I died like a lamb that I am.

    I quit the game for tonight after that, but I am sure I will kick his old gray hairy monkeybutt to the next nightmare tomorrow... He seemed a LOT easier than like anything in the old hunters dlc. Well, maybe not the living failures, but anyway.
     
  6. CovertSovietBear

    CovertSovietBear Lord Bagel Supreme

    Messages:
    406
    Likes Received:
    255
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Location:
    Neo Japan
    I quit the game after my first encounter with the wolf/dog thing at the very beginning. Very fun
     
    Mathemagician likes this.
  7. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    6,650
    Likes Received:
    1,526
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Location:
    WI
    It's utterly hilarious to me how many people I've seen with that exact experience. "I thought you were supposed to fight the wolf at the beginning! everyone told me the game was hard so I thought the fact killing him was incredibly tedious and difficult was just how the game was!! So I died to him a couple times and quit instead of running past him and starting the game!"

    He's basically the starting boss in Dark Souls or Demon's Souls, the game doesn't expect you to be able to kill it. It's possible, sure, but even less worth it in Bloodborne than those two games. (It's very worth it in Demon's Souls ftr)
     
  8. CovertSovietBear

    CovertSovietBear Lord Bagel Supreme

    Messages:
    406
    Likes Received:
    255
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Location:
    Neo Japan
    Oh, didn't die to him a couple times, straight up died once and didn't try again.
     
    Mathemagician likes this.
  9. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    6,650
    Likes Received:
    1,526
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Location:
    WI
    Yeah, I guess it isn't clear you're supposed to run past it if you go in with the mindset thinking the game is super difficult and/or are used to playing games where there's no such thing as enemies you can't easily defeat at level 1 with no weapon.

    Of course Gehrman seemed easier than the old hunters dlc bosses. He IS slightly easier, but mainly, you're massively overlevelled for him at this point. If you went through the whole game without doing any grinding on the shadow/pig area or anything you'd get more the "tuned" difficulty for him. But yeah, if you do the old hunter's dlc you'll be probably 20 or more levels higher than you would have been without.
     
  10. p0ke

    p0ke 7-string guitard

    Messages:
    2,328
    Likes Received:
    1,410
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Location:
    Salo, Finland
    Finally got to start Jedi: Fallen Order. Really liking this so far! I sort of expected it to be nearly unplayable on my OG Xbox One, but it actually runs pretty smooth. I can see where it would benefit from a next-gen console, but it still looks pretty good imo and the framerate hasn't really dropped in any noticeable way so far.
    Some of the platforming has been a bit tedious, but I like that the game doesn't punish too much for failing those. I haven't really gotten into the rhythm of the fighting yet, but it's definitely pretty cool at best.
     
    Quiet Coil and TedEH like this.
  11. rokket2005

    rokket2005 SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    1,084
    Likes Received:
    599
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Are you talking about the Werewolf in the clinic? Obvs you're supposed to die once to go to the dream and get your gear, but I went back and killed him no problem.
     
  12. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

    Messages:
    9,103
    Likes Received:
    6,316
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2007
    Location:
    Gatineau, Quebec
    Finished Metroid Dread. It's good. It's sometimes difficult. Never felt unfair though. Had all the things I expected from it. Had some pretty badass moments.

    Including some actual mild spoilers, not just using the tags for space.

    I never played Fusion, but I stick by my previous assessment that this feels like a Metroid Return-esque take on Super. It hits all the Metroid "formula" - the revisiting previous areas, the constant slow drip of new powers, the boss fights, the ending escape sequence, etc.

    I'm glad I have a pro controller, cause the controls are pretty responsive, and IMO you really need to make use of it. Easy to learn, but maybe hard to master. I've heard some people say they'd have preferred if the aiming was done with the right stick, but I was ok with the arrangement they used. I was kinda surprised that a lot of available buttons seemed to go unused, and I'm sure there must have been some way to make good use of them, since some of the hold-down-to-charge powers are a bit awkward to use. I like the slide, but I wish it wasn't the same button as morph ball. I was also expecting the spider ball the whole time and it never happened. Oh well.

    I think some people didn't like the parry and....... I'm ok with it. I was ok with it in Returns, and I'm ok with it here too.

    I liked the EMMI sections - they definitely felt fresh for a Metroid game, and they certainly succeeded at delivering a sense of tension. Especially a segment near the end where this particular one can always hear you, so any movement at all attracts the thing, forcing you to either hide or run. It's not "horror", as I interpreted it, so much as just high-tension. Some people called them stealth sections, which.... kinda yes, but kinda no. I like stealth games. I also liked these segments. I didn't really stealth through them all the time though. Sometimes I'd just sprint right through. I died a lot in these sections, and it took foreeeeever to get the timing down to stun the EMMI, which was the intent. I only managed it maybe 4-5 times. Dying in those sections didn't feel bad though since they were relatively short, and you were always returned to the entrance doors. Usually I'd die a bunch, take a new approach that was more appropriate for that particular robot, get through, repeat each time I encounter a new one.

    I already spoke about how the golden path of the game felt very linear to me. From what I understand, you caaaaaan sequence break, and you can do a significant about of exploring off the main path, but there's pretty much never a moment where you get really lost. The next thing to do is usually pretty clear, and often not far from where the previous sequence left you.

    I liked the boss fights, although I kinda wish there were more unique ones instead of re-using the Chozo metal bird dudes. The whole game generally stayed feeling fresh for the most part, except for that element.

    Not a whole lot of story (and I don't know the narrative from Fusion to really have context for it anyway), but it's as unnecessary as you'd expect. Everything presented made as much sense to me as it needed to. I'm sure I missed some references. Samus was voiced but only in some key spots, and it worked, I think. One point in particular, in the ending, there was a voiced yell during a struggle with the boss that struck me as badass. I feel bad for the voice actor though, it sounded strained, but it was exactly what the scene needed.

    So..... I have no real complaint other than I wish I had paced myself a bit instead of binge-playing over the weekend, 'cause being done already made it feel short, but that's mostly on me.
     
    StevenC likes this.
  13. Jarmake

    Jarmake Frost Giant

    Messages:
    1,226
    Likes Received:
    437
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Location:
    Oulu, Finland
    Well, you're supposed to die in the beginning. Then you get to hunter's dream, obtain a couple of weapons, get back to the clinic where the wolf is and kill it very easily. Then the real game begins and you have to get good to survive. :)
     
  14. Quiet Coil

    Quiet Coil Only obsesses over guitars when not playing them.

    Messages:
    1,296
    Likes Received:
    482
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Location:
    Washington
    Been playing it “with” my family on my PS4 Pro and I second everything you said. My wife’s been helping me find secrets and the kids take random turns walking around aimlessly and slashing walls. Good times
     
    p0ke likes this.
  15. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    4,589
    Likes Received:
    4,095
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2014
    Gherman is legit an easy end boss. Not too fast or too strong. Just if he catches you off guard some of his hits can clean you up.

    You’re not supposed to kill the first bosses in the DS games?

    And yeah the first enemy in BB is something that is hilarious in retrospect but fucking weird the first time it happens to you.
     
  16. gabito

    gabito SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    132
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2010
    Location:
    Argentina
    Played Yakuza 4 for around 15 hours (until you get to the city with the second character whose name I can't remember), ended up abandoning it. Never played a Yakuza game before but I was interested and had this game from a sale long ago. I liked the cheesy story / characters, but I wasn't hooked at all with the gameplay, I was mostly annoyed by the random encounters, and didn't care at all about the mini games and such... Not saying I felt it was a bad game, just not for me.

    Still playing sporadic sessions of Diablo 3. It seems it's a wonderful mindless time waster for when I don't want to think at all and just smash monsters and stuff.
     
  17. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    6,650
    Likes Received:
    1,526
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Location:
    WI
    I am talking about the VERY beginning of dark souls, when you get the asylum demon coming after you and the game seems like it's teaching you about what happens when you die since you basically have a feather to tickle him with at that point and you haven't levelled yet so you die in 1-2 hits. Demon's Souls does the exact same thing with a huge miniboss enemy that you don't see again till in that level with all the flying rays. Both encounters seem to be more "hey, you're going to die in this game" than "here's a boss for you to kill" cause the actual first bosses in both games are vastly easier.

    Yakuza 4 is a VERY weird entry point. That one is the second most dated of all of the currently available games, and the combat is pretty bad. Plus the plot will be pretty impenetrable without having played the previous entries since it's dumping multiple protagonists on you that you're supposed to be familiar with already. I'd say you should have tried starting with 0 to really give it a fair try (or like a dragon but that's an rpg instead of a beat em up). But, the combat's kind of similar with all of the old ones and 4 and 5 have more characters and thus more combat variety in that way. The mechanics just are simpler and the enemies are much more frustrating with their AI routines.

    It took me weeks to get into 0, I also thought the combat/random encounters were boring as hell and didn't know or care about any of the characters. Then I picked it up again after taking a break for a few weeks and suddenly everything clicked and I've loved the series since. Doubt it will happen to you starting with 4, but hey.
     
  18. Bloody_Inferno

    Bloody_Inferno Silence is Violence

    Messages:
    12,852
    Likes Received:
    4,766
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    I started in Yakuza 4 way back when. Though granted I thought it was fine until 5 and in turn 0 really sunk it's fangs into me.
     
  19. gabito

    gabito SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    132
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2010
    Location:
    Argentina
    It's the one I had, I wasn't so intensely interested to buy another one just in case I was missing something. I watched the recaps in the game before playing to more or less "get" what was going on (I don't think I did though).

    From what I understand the gameplay is more or less the same in all the games (brawling, mini games, etc.), and that's what I didn't like. I don't care about janky animation, weird or bad graphics, I still play old games on the PS3 all the time (I mean, I regularly replay MGS 1 / 2 / 3 / 4...).

    I'd be willing to watch a Yakuza movie or movies though, or a Let's Play, or something. I didn't hate the game, just didn't like it enough to keep playing, or to buy another one from the series.

    There's no way in hell I'd be playing a game I don't like for weeks LOL. I'm usually very patient and don't jump to conclusions, but that's too much. I'd rather replay some other game, or try a new one.
     
  20. Bloody_Inferno

    Bloody_Inferno Silence is Violence

    Messages:
    12,852
    Likes Received:
    4,766
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    There's the Takeshi Miike tie in to the first game:



    Far from the same but at least it exists.
     
    gabito likes this.

Share This Page