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Discussion in 'Live Performance & Stage Sound' started by MajkSFD, Jan 6, 2022.
Hi, i have question. What do you have in IEM mix? All instruments with vocals or only few tracks?
I literally have everything in the mix, but, I have them set there strategically. We use the Behringer equivalent of the Aviom, 16 Channels.
1: Kick, center
2: Snare, center
3: E. Gtr 1, Panned at about 10 o'clock.
4: E. Gtr 2, Panned at about 2 o'clock
5: Bass, center
6: Keys, center
7: Click Track, Center
8: Samples, Center
9: Lead Voc, Center
10: BGV1, Panned at about 10 o'clock
11: BGV2, Panned at about 2 o'clock
12: Overheads, Center
14: Acoustic, (when applicable) Panned if needed.
I try to set up as 'CD Quality' a mix as I can, full kit in Stereo, guitars hard panned (always favour myself on the left), bass and tracks. I don't include click or vox though, my drummer is rock solid and I don't want the music detail obscured by vox.
I’ll use percentages just as an arbitrary way to convey the balance: click 100, drums 100, my guitar 90, 2nd guitar 70, bass 40, vocals 0
As a vocalist/guitarist I have my vox, my guitar (duplicated with a 12ms delay and panned hard left/right), click track w/ cues, a little bit of bass and a tiny bit of the other guitarists guitar (enough so I can hear it when I'm not playing but not otherwise). Also stereo synths/backing just audible when I'm playing/singing.
No drums as that would take a long time to set up and, providing we're all on the click, it should be OK. Even with custom moulds I can hear the drums anyway so no big deal.
As a bassist I have everything in my ears
My bass, the click, and vocals are the loudest for me since the click is integral and vocal cues are very helpful for me.
I have bit of everything with my guitar and my vocals being the loudest. 2nd loudest would be bass, kick/snare, keys. Then the rest is seasoned to taste (other members vocals, track ((no click)), other guitar player). I used to run one ear in and one ear out because I liked hearing the stage/room sound as well. But now I have both ears in at all times and there is enough bleed through from the vocal mics that I can still get the "room" sense in my ears. I also put reverb on the vocals in my ears. Helps fatten it up a little and I like hearing it on my vocals when I'm singing.
I'm a singer and in theory I like being able to hear everything if it's reasonable to set it up, but emphasis on the reasonable.
If it's a live setting and the FoH is already going to mic a whole kit then that's fine, and I can have them send me the mixed kit back, but I would never bother setting up 7 mics myself. More gear to carry, and more time to set up, and the benefits to me compared to one mic (or even no mics) are pretty minimal. Drums are loud and also punchy, so I can hear them fine just with bleed and/or through my IEMs. I generally don't bother with a bass mic either, but that's in part because my bassist always turns up way too fucking loud.
My normal setup for rehearsal rooms is now just my vocal mic and an SM57 on the guitar cab. I've tried lots of other set ups, but when I use other mics I tend to end up muting them or at least turning them way down. The volume from the bleed is not always wonderfully consistent (since I have the mic in my hand) but a room mic always adds loads of volume and starts pushing up my other levels to uncomfortable volumes.
I could just remix my mic from scratch, to play better with those extra mics, I strongly resist it because I'd have to reprogram all my snapshots to match, and it takes FOREVER to get all those effects to not have feedback but also sound good. In the end, if a perfectly reasonable mic setup (24db input gain with a medium amount of compression) starts to become inaudible, even with +10db of fader gain, it's not that mic which is the problem.
Should be noted that I (and I think most of us here?) are using rack mixers controlled from a tablet, and I strongly recommend that approach. I have a tablet attached to my mic stand, and just fiddle with it as we go. If something isn't quite working I can fix it on the fly. It's not so vastly different to having it mixed at the mixer, but the fact you can make small changes live gives me a lot more confidence in the setup. It is very common that the soundcheck volumes that sounded alright are actually just a bit off. Not vastly, not enough to stop the show and go work on the mixer. But enough that I just want to bring myself up by 2db, just so I'm nice and clear and I don't end up trying to scream over the amps.
You shouldn't play fast and loose with it anyway, but it lets you try stuff and get a feel for everything. It takes the pressure off to get a great mix immediately, and lets you jump in and then tweak as you go.
Everything but vocals with kick, room, and click the loudest. We use a kick trigger and a drum overhead/stage mic, then bass and guitars are DI with splits off to FOH. Our vocalist doesn't really do the IEM thing, he keeps one in at a very, very low volume for the click when when we have drawn out pauses and intros with nothing going on musically before it kicks in. If I know I'm in time it's more important to me than hearing my guitar signal loud and clear, and vocals always distract me. I don't do any and I catch my self listening to the song instead of playing it, lol.
How do you find using DIs rather than cab mics?
I have been considering trying that approach, but I've been a bit unsure because the DI generally sounds pretty crappy without a cabinet. I know I am easily distracted, so if things sound crappy I know it'll make me lose focus, and make me feel like the gig is sounding dreadful.
I would love to cut down on bleed but I also want to feel like we sound good.
I've been running a modeler DI into a PA wedge live for ~10 years now, so my IEM tone has a great IR on it, bass is DI off a DarkGlass B7K Ultra, so that sounds great as well. If I was running a live amp on stage I'd probably get something that loads IRs and use that DI to my IEM rig.
Ah I get you.
I'll have to have a word with my guitarist. He's just slowly switching over to modelling (he's at the "headrush with 4 cable method" stage) and I'm not sure whether he runs cab sims because he's always finish up at a 4x12, rather than a mixer. But as you say, a little Radar pedal or something stuck inside my rack case is all it would take to plumb it in if he has no cab sim at all. And having one less mic with ALL THE FUCKING BASS bleeding through it would be nice...
We have a couple of all day practises coming up, so maybe I'll give it a go.