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Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by tedtan, Jun 19, 2019.
Ember to Inferno (2003) was mostly short and simple songs. Longest song is 7 mins and the average is just over 4.
Dying in your Arms was on their second album, at which stage they were still playing small clubs and doing cover songs. I saw them twice in the UK and Heafy was still playing Washburn Dimebag guitars and they did Metallica covers. So they certainly hadn't "sold out" at that point. Average song length again is 4-5 mins. Longest is 7 exactly.
The Crusade had a lot of really heavy shit on it. To the Rats. Entrance of the Conflagration. Those are pure thrash. And Sadness will Sear and Becoming the Dragon was the first experimentation with a 7 string.
Then Shogun came along, using almost exclusively 7 string. Songs were longer, heavier, more complex - kinda the opposite of selling out haha
In Waves was back to basics, with simple riffs and song arrangements, but they were already playing massive festivals at that point. And again, it had some really heavy shit like Dusk Dismantled, along with more friendly songs (Built to Fall) which I am arguing that they have had since day one.
Similar story for other albums really. Vengeance falls was a more complex In Waves, and then Silence in the Snow went back to down-tuned 7 strings. The change of drummer led them to simpler songs. And now they've got Alex, they're writing crazy complex shit again. So I don't really see any attempt at dumbing down their music. They've always had a mix of songs, and the Albus on average have got heavier if anything.
Ween is a band.
All their albums sound wildly different (their album The Mollusk sounding the most polished imho) - however, they never attempted mainstream success nor looked for it.
It was a tongue in cheek answer, for the most part
I'll be honest, I never got into classic Testament. But I REALLY love almost everything they released since Low.
I'm not even the world's biggest Testament fan but they definitely got a more modern edge to them later on, while still sounding like themselves. Didn't sound forced or trendy. I almost picked Slayer but Diablous in Musica felt like they were trying to be Fear Factory.
"Selling out" is just shorthand to say you don't like the new material of a band you used to like, or that you resent that you can't claim them as your own unique musical find, as if to say that if you can't like them, or if too many people like them , then they have lost all value and nobody should like them anymore. It's predicated on this sense of their being value in staying small/niche, as if that's where the "real" and "true" music is, because success means you "lose touch with your roots" or some nonsense like that. It's just music.
haha cool. Yeah I'm a big Ween fan and was ready to throw hands
sorry I completely misunderstood and thought you were saying the opposite.
I just saw them last night and they played a ton off The Gathering.
They are definitely one of the rare OG thrash bands that successfully modernized and got heavier without losing their essence, even though the early stuff is still my favorite.
Machine Head only counts if you pretend everything after The Blackening doesn't exist
Agree with Converge
Old Man Gloom
Really any metal band that nobody listens to
Anything after Sgt Peppers was circle jerk hippie sellout shite.
Really curious as to what makes you think Robb is a “tool”? He’s been really open about his drug use in the past, has OPENLY called out Phil Anselmo (ex-Pantera singer for the young ones) for being a racist AF in various situations, and really really seems to like his job/interacting with fans and new younger bands they tour with. He often uploads photos from touring travel too trying to share stuff from all over.
Him not being afraid to call out racist bullshit has made me a big fan of his. Also he wrote the Blackening sooooooooooooooooo yeah lol.
Danny don’t care. He’ll sing what he wants.
He does come off as a self-important butt chugger sometimes, but that's pretty much every musician ever. The thing with metal is, is that there will always be a subset of fans that assume NOT being a knuckle-dragging, homophobic, racist, luddite or calling out people who are is somehow undermining the "brutality" of metal because its supposed to be shocking and moronic....or something.
I'd add more to that, but I don't want to turn this into a political shitstorm.
EDIT: Meshuggah was already listed. But fuck it, listing them anyway.
They started off as a progressive thrash metal band, slowly started to get less thrash and more technical and death metal influenced, and eventually evolved to what they became with Nothing.
Selling out was a term used in the old days (when bands could actually make money) to describe a scenario in which a band changed their sound, look, etc. in order to make more money. This typically involved simplifying the songs, putting them in verse/chorus format, shortening them to fit radio time slots, etc. There is nothing inherently wrong in this, but it was definitely a case of the band choosing the money over the art. Not making bad art, but going for the money at the expense of the art. And I'm not sure that is possible now, though maybe going for popularity would still count.
I was going for bands that have been able to grow musically over their careers rather than merely finding their sound and sticking with it.
Metallica's MOP was platinum before they recorded AJFA, and AJFA went multi-platinum in the US alone within a short time period. They were in a position to dictate the direction they took on their next album and what did they do? They hired Bob Rock, a producer known for working with radio rock bands (Bon Jovi, Cher, Blue Murder, Loverboy, Motley Crue, etc.), completely changed their sound from borderline prog-thrash to simpler straight ahead metal, changed their look, put out several videos (after only having put out a video for One previously), etc.
They made a choice to go for the money at the expense of the art, e.g., they sold out.
That's my take, as well.
I think that's more the trve kvlt kids. Selling out was choosing to go for the money at the expense of the art. At least, that's how I'm using the term.
Whoever said Pantera "from tights to Titans"; LOL yup! Though I think they changed once and stuck with it the rest of the way.
Lots of good bands listed, agreed. For me:
Enslaved - went from very much black metal to prog over time; never released shitty material. They're better than ever in their current form.
Darkthrone - they live in the land of the riff and have for over 30 years (counting the Black Death days). Death, black, punk, traditional, crust, etc. They are always really good at what they do and they certainly do a lot. Everyone has their favorites and detraction's from their catalogue, but looking at their stuff objectively, I think it all rips. Old Star is just pure fun to listen to. Again, their reason for relevance and quality is embracing the riff to drive the song, no matter the style.
I don't know, I've always been pretty stoked to see bands I like getting more popular, unless they get popular by doing something that appears to be an obvious cash grab over just doing something different. Like Metallica's shitty nu metal album, or Machine Head's shitty nu metal album, or all these up and coming bands doing pop covers instead of releasing proper singles.