Vader 7 - 25.5'' or 27'' ?

Discussion in 'Beginners/FAQ' started by Degz, Mar 5, 2016.

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  1. Degz

    Degz EBMM Lover!

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    Suh guys? :yesway:

    So, I'm about to order a Vader 7 soon (hope so).

    However I'm struggling with a question... What scale length should I choose, 25.5'' or 27''?

    I played many 7 string guitars, but all of them were 25.5'' .

    Also, I have a Schecter KM7, which is a 26.5, and that's why I'm concerned because I don't feel confortable playing leads in it, like when I'm playing my JPXI 7 or others.
    Maybe it could be the feel from the Schecter, I don't know...

    This Vader is going to be in drop G tuning. I know that for lower tunings, longer scales work better, but if I don't feel confortable playing in it in general, maybe I'll have to mix things.

    Lots of you guys have Vaders, so please share your experience with it.


    -The 27'' scale is confortable for leads?

    -Should I choose a 25.5'' scale, since it's what I'm used to, and then do a proper setup to drop G?

    Thanks in advance!

    Cheers
     
  2. Nlelith

    Nlelith Motion Designer

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    While I do agree that playing leads is easier on 25.5" scale, I also find it to be a little short for this tuning. Even 26.5" is so much better for low G... I guess you'll have to sacrifice tight low end or comfortable lead playing. Multiscale Aries is always an option, though.
     
  3. jc986

    jc986 Tone Enthusiast

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    I'd go with the 27" to see if you like the feel. Worst case scenario is you take advantage of the 10 day trial period and return it for the 25.5" version. If you go 25.5" right off the bat you might keep wondering if you're missing out on the longer scale.
     
  4. oremus91

    oremus91 Melodeth-er

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    27 inch stuff is common enough these days that you could probably find an Ibanez (27) or Schecter 8 (28 now more commonly, 26.5 for the older stuff) at guitar center to get a feel for it before making an order. I think it is a matter of getting used to, maybe try playing the 26.5 KM-7 for a long while without giving yourself the opportunity of swapping back to the EBMM and see if it becomes something more natural and then 27 isn't much of a step from there otherwise you might want to stick to 25.5.

    With the right gauges I don't think Drop G is a problem for me personally on 25.5 but most players here on SSO seem to want a 9872364596" scale guitar so they can bar chords with their forearm so I expect a biased response.
     
  5. saminator

    saminator Do you even praise, bro?

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    I'd look at it this way: a 10 gauge set of strings will have similar tension in standard tuning on a 2.5" neck as it would in drop G tuning on a 27" neck.

    You won't have the issue of fighting with one guitar while another feels like it's strung with rubber bands.

    Yes, leads are sacrificed on longer scale necks, but only a multiscale neck will give you easier leads AND good tension on lower strings.
     
  6. Zeno

    Zeno SZ Hunter

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    No it wouldn't. It actually mathematically works out almost perfectly however, that Drop Ab and Drop G would feel the same with the same gauges, on a 25.5" and 27" guitar respectively. Let's use a standard D'addario 10-59 set for comparison

    Len 25.5

    E4b .010" dapl == 14.45#
    B3b .013" dapl == 13.7#
    G3b .017" dapl == 14.76#
    D3b .026" danw == 16.4#
    A2b .036" danw == 17.4#
    E2b .046" danw == 15.58#
    A1b .059" danw == 11.66#

    Len 27

    D4 .010" dapl == 14.43#
    A3 .013" dapl == 13.69#
    F3 .017" dapl == 14.74#
    C3 .026" danw == 16.38#
    G2 .036" danw == 17.38#
    D2 .046" danw == 15.56#
    G1 .059" danw == 11.64#

    Not identical, but DAMN close. To be perfectly identical you either have to pair 25.4/27 or 25.5/27.1, but it's good enough to make that feel approximation. So, to the OP -

    What string gauges would feel good on your 25.5" 7 strings in Drop Ab? Whatever that is, that'd be your perfect gauge for Drop G on a 27" guitar. For me, that'd be the 11-64 set from D'addario. For you, 10-59 might work perfectly.

    So I say, get the 27" using that formula for your string gauges. If you don't dig it, you can send it back and get a 25.5" and bump up your string size a bit. PM me if you want more info on all that.
     
  7. Lorcan Ward

    Lorcan Ward 7slinger

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    It sounds like a multi-scale would be right for you. The Vader multi-scale will come out eventually but it could be a year away.

    I have a bit of trouble playing leads on a 26.5" but that half inch jump to 27" is just too much.
     
  8. Aymara

    Aymara SS.org Regular

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    I my opinion it's even a must, when tight low end and comfortable leads need to be combined.

    It's not just a matter of string tension, right? ... but also of the distance between frets. How many lead players play baritone scale lengths?

    And Drop G on a 25.5" scale length might very like end up in intonation issues or very low tension.
     
  9. Nag

    Nag chugs and screams

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    27" scale is literally just 1 fret bigger than 25,5".

    Take your guitar, play stuff you know one fret lower, and see if that's too hard.
     
  10. Winspear

    Winspear Tom Winspear

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    Indeed. I don't understand this issue with lead stuff, especially as comments about playing on the highest frets feeling cramped are so common :scratch: It only makes difficult the already most difficult stretches, imo. Everything else feels nicer to me haha
     
  11. yellowv

    yellowv Turd Ferguson Contributor

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    I prefer 25.5, but I don't tune super low.
     
  12. Degz

    Degz EBMM Lover!

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    True dat man. A multiscale would be awesome, but I want it in a Vader model haha.
    However I feel really confortable playing in drop G in my JPXI 7, with the proper strings and setup.
     
  13. Degz

    Degz EBMM Lover!

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    That's a good option man, thanks. But I'm from Portugal and it's going to be a pain in the ass to return the guitar and so on, because of the shipping and handling :s
     
  14. Degz

    Degz EBMM Lover!

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    Yeah man, I thought about it. I'll try find some guitar in a guitar center with 27'' scale.

    I laugh so hard at the last part haha it's true hahah!!
     
  15. Degz

    Degz EBMM Lover!

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    Wish they already made a fanned frets Vader.
     
  16. Degz

    Degz EBMM Lover!

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    Thank you so much man, that helped a lot! I already had that kind of thought with my KM7. However, I really think it's about the feel of it... And I'm very
    suspicious that is the feel with this Schecter in particularly.

    For drop A in my JPXI7, I had used .10's with a .62 on the bottom. Now I'm using a .9, which I like better. For drop G, also in my JPXI, 10 or 11, I think it's fine, 10 is more confortable in bends and vibrato, and 11 more tight. And for the bottom a 68 works for me.
     
  17. Degz

    Degz EBMM Lover!

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    Yeah, the space between lower frets it's bigger and I found that really nice, because of the space, but the feel while playing it.. meh.
     
  18. Degz

    Degz EBMM Lover!

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    Like I said in a previous post, I found that really nice because of the space you have, however when it comes to the feel I really don't dig it. Once again, I'm really suspicious about this Schecter in particularly. I'll try other guitars with long scales, before I make this decision.
     
  19. Aymara

    Aymara SS.org Regular

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    I still think, you should go multiscale. And as a European I wouldn't buy a Kiesel, because there's no European distributor.

    No matter which version you choose, what will you do, when you find out, that you chose the wrong guitar?

    I myself was interested in a Mayones Duvell and when I had the chance to try it out, I chose a Mayones Regius instead. And this decision took some weeks.

    So did you ever have the chance to play a Vader yourself?
     
  20. Degz

    Degz EBMM Lover!

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    Yep man, that's true. It's a shame that they don't have an European distributor so we can try them.

    It's always a "shot in the dark" when it comes to these things. We saw some reviews and videos, but we'll never know if they going to fit us, right?

    Well I think I'm going to like it, and I'm super excited with getting a headless guitar.
    I don't go for Strandberg just because they're a bit expensive for me now, and the OS models I don't think they worth 2k.

    I'm going to think about it...
     

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