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Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by mongey, Mar 2, 2016.
I was trying to be polite
I think its interesting that every person in opposition is taking a part of their time to pontificate about their opinion of the situation rather than actually ask the expert witnesses questions.
Turley testimony from the Clinton Impeachment (the gentlemen that is now stating the arguments being made by the Democrats is wafer thin:
"Executive power exhibits the same physical properties as a gas in a confined space. When you expand the space the gas will fill the space. You should not be misled. Your decision will define executive power and authority. If you decide certain acts do not rise to impeachable offenses, you will expand the space for conduct and we will have to live with that expansion. And we will have to live with that expansion."
Definitely not the type of hearings that are going to appeal to the general public but for me, I'm super satisfied because the witnesses and the Dem counsel both focused on things I thought were missing in previous coverage and really sharpened the focus of the charges on the most actionable stuff.
The Turley stuff was actually a massive waste of time considering he mostly parroted his written statements but meanwhile there were developments throughout the hearing that negated his points. One of the witnesses brought up all the cases of obstruction of Justice in the Mueller report, which was a nice reminder that Muellers conclusion was also that an impeachment was the appropriate course of action. Turley argued the case was historically "thin" based on Ukraine and that testimony was a reminder they've got other material to draw from if they choose.
If I can go off script for sec, my is that the Dems have obvious political motives, but their argument is legally sound and founded in legitimate misconduct and setting a dangerous precedent. Unfortunately, this is still being viewed 90% as a sharply political act, and so if nothing changes, Republicans will be safe at home brushing this off.
The headshot this needs is like the #MeToo movement. A single accusation is a single accusation. Even two accusations. As soon as it's like Cosby or Weinstein where every story that comes out is just as substantial as the last and the pattern is there, he's sunk.
Mueller and Russia was a glancing blow, Ukraine shows a pattern but they're debating what's in his rights or what he asked for, etc. If the Republicans exhaust all their "Yeah, buts" on Ukraine and someone else comes forward about a 'pay to play' (which likely exists, based on the story about all the calls in the super secret log next to the Ukraine one), I think he's sunk Nixon style.
They're out there, just a matter of if anyone has the stomach to come forward. They're definitely out there though. They were so bold and loose about this, it's just like a serial killer, you see the level of comfort in what they do and you know it wasn't the first time and won't be the last time until they're caught.
Great quote... but, source? Google turned up nothing which makes me suspicious. This article cites what appears to be partof that quote, but I'm seeing it nowhere else.
Excellent, excellent point.
I grabbed it from the CNN ongoing feed of the events today. Granted, bias in the website is known, and the quote could very well be part of a larger narrative.
Ehh, CNN is somewhat biased... But in interpretation, and isn't the sort of place to just make up facts. That's more likely to be legit than not.
Never stopped Fox.
I love how the GOP just completely ignores all of the successful prosecutions came from the Mueller investigation, and how close those people were to Trump. Maybe Giuliani will come to Jesus just like Cohen did, once he realized he was caught. Even if Rudy goes to prison, though, GOP Senators will be like "Rudy is a criminal, why trust him?" and continue fellating Trump as a better president than Lincoln.
And we're officially getting the articles of impeachment drawn up. Surpassed they haven't tried to bring in more witnesses first.
they tried to bring in many more witnesses and asked for lots of docs. WH illegally blocked them from appearing and turning over docs.
plays into trump's plan to delay everything if they fight it out in the courts.
....has Trump REALLY not done anything stunningly stupid for 3 consecutive days now???
C'mon SSO, I depend on you for my daily dose of entertaining political shenanigans
Sorry, I was too busy flushing my toilet for the 14th time to post about anything he's said/done, apparently.
Nah, I've noticed this thread usually isn't active on the weekends. Of course he's done some stupid stuff we haven't discussed. Pretty sure we didn't even touch upon NATO or how he refuses to take part in the impeachment inquiry, which, uhh, if you did nothing wrong, why not do something to show as much?
Also, Nadler does not look great right now, and this whole hearing seems like a fucking mess.
Part of it is I also don't spend very much time online over the weekends.
That said, there's plenty of stupid things he's said over the weekend (his free rambling comments on water and sinks and how there's not enough of it and some people have to flush the toilet as much as 14-15 times because there isn't enough water were truly special), but none of it really moves the needle functionally. Like, yeah, he said some stupid crap, but it doesn't make it more or less likely he'll get impeached, it won't change anyone's thoughts, and it's just kinda masterbatory to sit back in glee every time he opens his mouth and word salad comes out, and after a while that just makes you feel dirty.
Also, the impeachment hearings only occuring during the week are another reason things are slow.
This was pretty predictable, though. The GOP has every incentive to be disruptive as they can here, and there's a couple proper Trump attack dogs on the committee.
Honestly, from what I've read up on the hearings today, what a fucking mess.
Two things I'm thinking about though:
1. I saw someone on CNN ask "So why didn't you investigate Hunter Biden during the 4 years the Republicans held most of the power?"
2. If Trump is impeached, the Republicans do know they still hold the White House, right?
It's way easier to accuse the Democrats of "trying to overturn the 2016 election" than it is "trying to put Mike Pence in power."
I mean, if the Democrats think this is a big enough deal that they're willing to put Pence in power, doesn't that kinda say something?
the best response to the overturning the 2016 election line would be to ask why is the gop trying to overturn the 2018 election? by the biggest margin in history the American people indicated they wanted checks and balances on the most corrupt president in history. the president is implying that the people's votes don't matter when he is saying his administration is above congressional oversight and doesn't have to turn in documents or allow people to testify by ignoring perfectly legal subpoenas.