US Political Discussion: Trump Administration Edition (Rules in OP)

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by mongey, Mar 2, 2016.

  1. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Eh, the party moved a lot post-2016, but I think Harris could have been a very strong contender and a very good president, had this been a different year. She just missed the tone of the party. There's a boatload of candidates I'd have rather see drop out before her.
     
  2. Ralyks

    Ralyks The One Who Knocks Contributor

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    ANDREW GODDAMN YANG outlasted her. That's sad.
     
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  3. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Like I said, 2020 is shaping up to be a very different electorate than 2016.

    It's actually a little curious she dropped out when she did - she qualified for the next debate. Maybe her campaign is running low on money, or maybe she's just being realistic about her odds and it's a "good of the party" move? Could also be a direct reaction to Bloomberg and Patrick entering, they're both going after the establishment vote, which is her territory as well, and if late entrants are thinking we need more establishment candidates, that's saying something.

    Most of the "establishment" voters I know, FWIW, think we're fucked and headed for another four years of Trump. I disagree, but it's worth mentioning.
     
  4. Captain Butterscotch

    Captain Butterscotch PRS Guitars

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  5. Thaeon

    Thaeon Cosmic Question Asker

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    Looks like the impeachment is going forward. Not that we didn't think it would. Based on how the report is framed, they should be able to successfully impeach him based on the obstruction alone. There's plenty of evidence for it. I expect weak defenses like "well, he didn't successfully obstruct justice so we can't charge him with that." Seems to be how the current GOP likes to defend him. Which is interesting considering there are so many attorneys in congress and the senate. They KNOW it doesn't work like that.
     
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  6. Randy

    Randy Sous Chef Super Moderator

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    How long in the cycle do the normies catch that he donated to Lindsey Graham in 2015?
     
  7. Randy

    Randy Sous Chef Super Moderator

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    So I'm apparently the only person that saw this two days ago?

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics...igns-scathing-letter-staff-treated-poorl.html
     
  8. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Didn't see that particular article, but I'd seen variations of it.

    Considering Harris entered the campaign as a top prospect, and at one time came close to taking the lead in the polls, I think it'd be more surprising that there WEREN'T reports of staffers second-guessing her decisions and accusing her campaign of mismanagement. Not saying there isn't a reasonable basis for this, but if she was leading in the polls, her sister would look live a visionary rather than a screw-up for doing the exact same things. And, again, it doesn't explain why she dropped out now, since nothing in that story alone was pointing to an imminent blow-up (unless I missed something).

    The part about getting Giuliani's phone records from AT&T to show he was in touch with the White House, Mulvaney, Sondland, Nunes (particularly damning, given his role in this investigation), Sondland, and his own now-indicted associates, with calls often corresponding to particularly critical moments in the already-established evidence record was, IMO, a particularly nice touch.
     
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  9. Randy

    Randy Sous Chef Super Moderator

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    Well, the point is two fold.

    One, that the staffer left two days ago and wrote a poison-pen letter, most likely triggered by news they were going to close up shop. Thats pretty good harbinger of something coming shortly.

    Second, she is an authoritarian nightmare and the only answer she had for being heavy handed against liberal causes (like her record of prosecutions for low level drug offenses) was to be heavy handed about other shit, none of which made her particularly likeable. It shouldn't be a forgone conclusion that staffers leave someone's campaign and salt the Earth where they once stood. If that's what the perception was inside that campaign, I can only imagine what that meant for her prospects when the GOP attack machine wasn't spread out over 17 other targets. And if that was the case on the inside, I can only imagine what the conversations were like inside the network of donors or endorsement she would've been seeking.
     
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  10. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Your second point I won;t really debate - that seems to be more in the vein of how you interpret a candidate's presentation and actions, and that's a totally valid interpretation.

    But the first... I guess you're seeing that as a early warning sign not that there was internal disagreement in the campaign, but that there were imminent announcements coming? Eh... Again, really tough to say. Sanders just had the head of his Mass operations quit, who until recently was the head of his New Hampshire operations, and I wouldn't necessarily read that as proof that something was coming in his campaign. It's awfully easy to say with the benefit of hindsight it was a clear signal, but prior to the announcement it seems more tenuous.

    And again, at the end of the day she quit about two weeks before the next debate, which she was one of only 7 candidates to have qualified for. The thesis of "we should have known this was coming because a prominent staffer quit and wrote a scathing op-ed" doesn't really address the fact that the cost-benefit breakout for staying in the race another two weeks certainly seems favorable.

    EDIT - I'm doing a bad job explaining why I'm confused. End of the day, it seems like Harris had made it through the biggest culling of the primary pack to date, and a strong performance on the 19th could have offered her a lot of upside to reignite her campaign. Why then drop out now, when she could have just scaled back spending or something? What drove her campaign to shut down now, rather than the 20th? It just seems strange.
     
  11. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Wow. I just read some of that. Are they going to go after Trump for witness intimidation?! Seems like a stretch to me. Also, linking Nunes to the Ukrainian henchmen the day after Nunes's minority report (which I also read and is clearly bullshit) might be a checkmate move by Schiff. Even if Trump skates, there's now a fair chance Nunes goes down.

    It looks like the whole back channel bribery angle is solid enough now, with the timeline of events established and a few key testimonies, that Senate Republicans are going to have to challenge themselves with some serious mental gymnastics.

    And if this blows over, I insist that the precedent be set for me as well, that bribery only occurs if I actually pay. :rofl: I might be able to get out of a few jams in the future if I have that in my back pocket. I'm sure the cops will see it that way when I offer them bribes and then don't make good on them, right? :lol: Seriously, though, that has to be the most shit legal defense for a bribe anyone has ever tried.
     
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  12. Thaeon

    Thaeon Cosmic Question Asker

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    Seriously. Nunes should have recused himself. The fact that he didn't is, in my opinion, compromising to the inquiry. However, if the sort of corruption that he is defending is literally something he doesn't see as wrong, then his being involved in presiding over such an inquiry where he himself is implicated and finding no issue in that is probably just another Tuesday to him. In my opinion, Trump could just be a bumbling idiot and not understand how or why what he was asking for was wrong. Nunes behavior is absolutely corrupt considering he knows exactly what is happening, and is attempting to garner emotional response from the public rather than appealing to their rational thinking. It seems almost sociopathic.
     
  13. Randy

    Randy Sous Chef Super Moderator

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    Nunes thing even worse considering I saw mention one of the phone calls was between Nunes and Parnas. This guy had absolutely no business conducting a hearing or overseeing the drafting of a report about this in any capacity, doubly not even divulging the fact he was neck deep in this.

    I believe in eating the elephant one bite at a time and considering the GOP's interference campaign on all House impeachment efforts, the next stage should be a House Ethics Committee microscope lodged up Nunes' ass.

    I also get a laugh about Nunes opening a lawsuit again CNN over their story about him flying to Ukraine for Biden dirt, claiming it untrue and defamation and later that same day it comes out he was leaking to a Ukrainian troll whos currently in fucking jail for paying off politicians. :lol: Fuck on outta here, clown.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
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  14. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Same Devin Nunes who championed the Frivilous Lawsuit Act? :lol:
     
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  15. Thaeon

    Thaeon Cosmic Question Asker

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    Dude is a textbook asshat.
     
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  16. Ralyks

    Ralyks The One Who Knocks Contributor

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    Anyone following today's hearings? Checking in when I get free moments at work.
     
  17. Randy

    Randy Sous Chef Super Moderator

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    Just tuning in. Only thing I heard so far was the GOP scheduling Jonathan Turley to come in and say impeachment isn't Constitutional in this case, which is hilarious considering he works for The Hill alongside John Solomon, who was the person tasked by the White House to run interference on Ukraine.
     
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  18. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Yeah, haven't been following it closely either, I've just checked a few summaries here and there. I'm not expecting any incremental new information, but to be fair I didn't expect that nugget about Giuliani's phone records in the House Intelligence Committee report, either, so who knows. :lol:
     
  19. Randy

    Randy Sous Chef Super Moderator

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    My friend who's particularly well tuned to, um, lower IQ considerations said the Dems case was looking worse and worse with the Professors testifying, up until they shifted to Turley, who's unarguably more droll and makes all of his arguments within a vacuum. The Dem's witnesses look like the half time show at the fucking Super Bowl compared to him, WOW he's dry.
     
  20. Thaeon

    Thaeon Cosmic Question Asker

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    In a vacuum? Its like he's read a completely different constitution and participated in a completely other legal system in an entirely different galaxy. Who argues that a separate legal case as a response to denying a subpoena, takes priority over the subpoena itself coming from the governing body that writes the very laws they rule on. Wait for SCOTUS? Its Congress' enumerated power to make those subpoenas in an impeachment in the first place. The guy is a tool.
     
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