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Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by mongey, Mar 2, 2016.
Good Lord Nunes is a lying douche in his opening statement
In a way it’s good to see some of these Trump defenders showing their true colors. The shit they are trying to pull is just so easy to see through. It’s like hearing an 8 year old trying to lie and not get into trouble.
sondland throwing everyone under the bus!
At this point, I can’t really blame a person for trying to bail from the sinking orange ship.
aaaaaaand he just got pence involved in a direct lie that pence has been trying to claim about the missing aid not coming up in his meeting with Zelensky.
I'm officially abandoning any belief of anything resembling a strategy from the GOP, after their counsel argued that it wasn't an order from Trump to talk to Giuliani because he sais "talk to Rudy" not "go talk to Rudy". I was waiting for him to say "Well, how did you know THAT was the Rudy he was referring to?". C'mon.
Also, it's mind boggling that it took 5 days and several hours in for someone (Schiff) to bring up how absurd it is for someone to hear and push "investigate Burisma" at the order of Giuliani and Trump both, but no idea that meant the Bidens until after it was on the news for a weeks, several months after the fact. Nobody ever used Bidens name or he had no idea there was a conspiracy theory out there about Hunter Biden on Burisma board even though you were working in Ukraine this whole time?
Nunes can't be serious. He’s going on about making sure there’s no corruption before sending aid. He’s heard before that Ukraine was cleared of that to receive the aid before there was a hold put on it.
I like how Nunes doesn't actually do anything other than Pontificate and Speculate, but asks literally no questions that lead anywhere. It's like he's just attempting to garner the ire of Trump's die hard supporters and stoke the fires enough that they can't listen to the rational questioning through their anger.
can't tell if Nunes is retarded or just thinks everyone else is
Like I said above, I've just completely abandoned the notion of anything resembling a coherent strategy from the GOP. Volker was their first star witness, he 180'd on his original testimony, Sondland was their backup and he got spooked by what everyone else has said and also pulled a 180. This is full crisis mode for them.
Trump has been trying to use "executive privilege" as a reason to shield aids from congressional subpoenas, which the Supreme Court has NOT ruled on. I don't believe the case you're referencing has made it as far as the Supreme Court on appeal, yet, either. It's probable that Bolton would lose if he appealed to the courts, but it would also take several months to get to a decision, and the Democrats are trying to keep this moving.
IMO, of course... Sondland's testimony did NOT go well for the GOP today. First off (ironically while listening to an anonymous macro econ chat token Trump fans proclaiming this would go nowhere because there was no quid pro quo) he testified directly that there WAS a quid pro quo, per Giuliani and at Trump's direction. This was a reversal from his own prior testimony. Then, when the GOP counsel kept probing him on various subjects, you could tell they weren't getting the answers they wanted and the guy had to keep changing lines of questioning when the answers started to get problematic for Trump's defense. Finally, Nunes' opening was essentially that anything Trump did was fine, because it was intended to shut down a "Democratic witch hunt" (which is not a defense against abusing executive power), and that we need the whistleblower to testify so we don't have to ask people what they thought the whistleblower may have been aware of (which is immaterial now that there is an actual investigation and pretty good proof the report was accurate, and of course is a total violation of whistleblower protections).
There's also the number of high-profile Trump inner circle members who have issued statements in response already - off the top of my head, Giuliani, Pence, and Perry have all had to go into damage control mode. And this was a lifelong republican that the GOP had cause to believe could help them with his testimony. Ouch.
I've been listening for most of the day if not watching. Its ugly.
So far totally overlooked by most pundits covering this today is the fact Sondland made a point to mention meeting with Trump in person, Trump specifically brings up what "Ukraine tried to do to him in 2016" and directly mentioning working with Rudy Giuliani as a response to Sondland talking about working with Ukraine and Zelensky. Relevant because Sondland knowingly trying to preclude any argument that Giuliani was going 'rogue' by saying Trump invoked the same conspiracy theory, then said "now go talk to Rudy".
Also, a lot of Republicans and people testifying clearly planned on using the defense that "nobody knew Burisma or investigations in general meant the Bidens", which probably would've worked out well if it wasn't for President Shit for Brains literally saying Biden, Biden, Biden on the phone call he made.
Sondland and Volker both looking like the first of the rats jumping off the ship, but also clear is the frustration of the idea of people going out of their way to shield this guy from things, and then he implicates himself in plain English, then tries to pull them infront of him as a human shield. If self preservations doesn't get people to turn on him, the frustration of him constantly undoing every defense they make for him has to.
Yeah the "I didn't know Burisma meant Biden" defense is extremely shaky and I think even they know it, it's just trying to grasp at some sort of a straw to distance themselves from what Trump and Giuliani were doing. IMO, the most important takeaway from that defense, is that Sondland and Volker WERE trying to distance themselves from Trump and Giuliani in their testimony to Congress.
The GOP tried to spin that as "talk to Giuliani" was somehow Trump just not wanting to be bothered, rather than a directive, since it wasn't "go talk to Giuliani" or "you should talk to Giuliani" or "I want you to talk to Giuliani," or something like that. That's also a very big stretch.
It has not been ruled on by the SCOTUS, but prior US appellate court cases have upheld that a Congressional subpoena is legally binding so long as it is within the scope of Congress to issue the subpoena, and the SCOTUS ruled that Nixon's Watergate tapes must be turned over to the special prosecutor (e.g., no executive privilege), so given these precedents, I doubt there is much of a case to made by Trump's attorneys. It's just a stall tactic at this point, and not a particularly good one IMO.
Given Sondland's testimony today, I wouldn't be surprised to see republican Congressmen and Senators begin distancing themselves from Trump in the next couple of days.
Good point. With previous impeachment precedents, it sounds like an intentional waste of time and taxpayer money.
Rep Maloney does NOT fuck around.
If they're anything like the Republicans in the inquiry, I think they're gonna hold on to the "the Dems are out to get your president" narrative. I'd be surprised to see any of them risk losing the votes for that.
If this were the Senate I would probably give them room to distance themselves, but the house is constantly in election mode. They can't afford to not represent the constituency. As long as the majority of voters on the right appear to be standing behind Trump, they'll stick behind him. As soon as voters start appearing to bail on him, they won't be able to abandon ship fast enough.