US Political Discussion: Trump Administration Edition (Rules in OP)

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by mongey, Mar 2, 2016.

  1. Randy

    Randy Sous Chef Super Moderator

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    Thats the most limp dick Democrat excuse for anything I've heard in my entire life, and I've heard a lot of them.
     
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  2. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

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    Nice deflection.

    Why dont you ask the millions of mexican americans, american indians, and other non-white americans who came here legally, who support tighter border security, and actually, the wall? (Since I know you think the only ones concerned about it are racist whites since that's what you're subtly getting at).
     
  3. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    I'm glad to hear you're a proponent of legal immigration. I am too. Trump, however, is not.

    https://fortune.com/2019/05/21/donald-trump-immigration-backlog/

    By late 2017, the backlog of immigration applications has increased to 2.3 million applications, well above the previous all-time high of 1.7 million in the wake of the post-9/11 restructurings, while wait times have doubled since the Obama administration. Refugees admitted into this country have fallen to a quarter of the last year of the Obama administration, by 2018. Meanwhile, the Trump administration is making tweaks to existing visa programs, making it harder to get approved, and adding criteria designed to make it hard for anyone who isn't already affluent to apply and be approved:

    https://www.salon.com/2019/06/10/tr...l-immigration-only-the-privileged-need-apply/

    Also, while again I applaud your desire to be inclusive and supportive of minority rights in America, I have to point out:

    American Indians are immigrants who came to this country legally? You want to maybe reconsider that claim?

    So, yeah... Trump is making it much harder to come into this country legally, especially if you're poor and non-white. What's the most logical unintended consequences of making it extremely difficult to come into America legally? Think about that one for a bit. This surge in illegal immigration, after a decade of relatively low and declining illegal immigration, is no coincidence, nor are the policies that have encouraged it.
     
  4. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

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    Ok yes the "native" indians are obviously seperate from immigrants, but there are those that are pro Trump, pro wall....are they racist too or does some attempt to keep out people who arent legal citizens just make sense?

    Also, thinking about it, I've yet to be convinced the a slow down on immigration is a bad thing. But I mean, if it's getting tougher and tougher to come here, why not just go somewhere else, preferably to a country that has free healthcare anyways?
     
  5. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    I mean, I don't know how to say this gently, but if you're concerned about racism, perhaps not calling Native Americans "immigrants" because they're non-white, in a country where all the white people are the immigrants, would give you a shred more credibility.

    We have a shortage of skilled labor in this country, of course immigration is a good thing. More skilled labor equals more growth, a higher tax base, and a stronger economy. If we get enough immigrants into this country, maybe we could have free health care like the other first-world countries in the world, too!
     
  6. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

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    Also, I dont know about your ancestors who came to this country, but my ancestors who came to this country were pioneers, not immigrants.
     
  7. Ordacleaphobia

    Ordacleaphobia Shameless Contrarian

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    Come on dude.
    I'm with you so far on a lot of what you're saying on this topic but this line is a bit ridiculous.
    The pioneers were colonists that came from England. They moved from one country to another. This country was already inhabited by the native americans. They were definitely immigrants in a fundamental sense- lets not play the "but technically" game; that's only going to hurt your point.
     
  8. Adieu

    Adieu SS.org Regular

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    Pioneers as in people who helped themselves to whatever the hell they wanted and shot anyone who got in the way?

    Cute
     
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  9. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    You've said some dumb crazy stuff on this forum, but damn.
     
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  10. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    So, this is a closely-moderated sub-forum, a closely-moderated thread even by that forum's standards, and I'm trying to be as respectful as I possibly can here, in deference to, if nothing else, the mod team here.

    But, that is possibly the most cringe-worthy thing I've read on this entire message board in the ~15 years I've posted here, all the more so because a moment ago you were pointing to Native Americans as "legal immigrants." It sort of defies belief.

    I'm trying to be charitable here, and it's entirely possible that this isn't actually a stupendous lack of awareness about privilege, and maybe you legitimately don't know what the word "immigrant" means. That's a stretch, but just in case, I hotlinked the Merriam-Webster definition for you. If you're aware of the meaning of the word, though, and you think that somehow your ancestors who came here from presumably some European country were "pioneers" and not "immigrants," then I'm at a loss for words that wouldn't just be insulting you.
     
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  11. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

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    Lets be real here, you or I dont know how anything went down and actually happened (without cherry picking through articles for the sake of semantics). Seeing how europeans have been here since the 1600's(? perhaps earlier or later), until the last major (afaik) displacement among the "native" tribes Trail of Tears, was a span of a couple hundred years or so, is simply false to assume that the white man came and murdered all the indians overnight like many assume.

    Let me set this straight

    I was not pointing to them as "legal" immigrants, I put them in that sentence for a different reason and may have worded it wrong....The reason why they are in that sentence is not because I was lumping them together with illegal immigrants, but because alot of them are in support of tighter border security including but not limited to the wall.

    Also, privelage is the cringiest word of the last few years.

    Also, we can discuss who was here before the "native" indians if you would like and discuss where they came from
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  12. Adieu

    Adieu SS.org Regular

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    The difference between an immigrant and a pioneer/settler/colonist/etc. is that the immigrant BUYS land or resources instead of just taking em.
     
  13. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    I asked. He said, "Comrade, wall is great thing, no? It protects us from moose and squirrel."
     
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  14. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    r/selfawarewolves
     
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  15. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

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    Ok, so these "immigrants" that are in these detention centers that have existed pre-Trump, which land are they specifically trying to buy?
     
  16. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    Are you asking how someone in detention is going about purchasing land/a home?

    Pretending you were actually asking if immigrants purchase homes:

    https://nationalmortgageprofessiona...nds-immigrant-homeownership-rates-rising-fast

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ny...lestate/immigrants-and-homeownership.amp.html

    https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/fall-2017/immigrants-housing-demand

    If you don't feel like reading: immigrant homeownership is on the rise and has been so for quite some time. Immigrants are typically very hard workers and thus work towards buying homes.
     
  17. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

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    No when I responded to that I was in the mindset of buying "large" amounts of land, like large territories when this country was being formed so I was comparing today to a couple hundred years ago. I dont think people from poor countries are coming here to buy the state of Nevada. Though who knows maybe China will buy it.

    Point being, when the europeans came here and created a civilization, there was no land to "buy" because the people living here at the time didnt think that one could actually "own" land to be able to sell it. Though I'd hardly consider some small tribal families living in straw huts on a riverbank to be "owning" any land in the first place.....tribes that were already butchering and battling each other over land prior to anyone else showing up.
     
  18. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    You've said a lot of questionable things in this thread. Typically they could be brushed off as pure ignorance.

    This though, this is actually a genuinely shitty take. It's still ignorant, and stupid as all get out, but it's also broadly myopic and racist.

    There's nothing really else to say on this. The shark has been jumped. Any hope to have a discussion in good faith is long gone.

    Get out.
     
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  19. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

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    I haven't said anything that implies that I think any race is better than the other or that my race is better or that I don't like any other race????

    But whatever.
     
  20. Adieu

    Adieu SS.org Regular

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    Sorry sorry

    They're clearly trying to trade up from some farmhouse in the Mexican boonies to a posh tent in a "refugee camp" in a prime location like 5th Street in DTLA*

    .....NOT. as if. "Free misery" doesn't interest illegals in the slightest, plenty of similar and far better options back home with less risk and effort.

    So yeah, illegals come with the aim of making and spending money. Cause for mooching purposes, this country royally sucks and always has.

    *Note for the uninitiated: the homeless encampments of Los Angeles make all manner of favelas, Subsuharan slums, and UN refugee camps look positively cheery... no one in their right mind would ever WANT to end up there or stay if any other choice presented itself.
     

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