US Political Discussion: Trump Administration Edition (Rules in OP)

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by mongey, Mar 2, 2016.

  1. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

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    I advocate for trying a true free market capitalist society before going full bown socialism (then communism). I'd argue that, the people want those kind of systems because society is used to it being this way, (being born into it) and can't imagine how it would work without these social systems. (lets not get into "but who will build the roads"?) Since our government is drunk on and addicted to cheap money, taxing and rampant spending, it creates a cycle that is dependent on reallocating tax dollars for expansion of more government power. More power = more rules and regulations = less freedoms for the people, inevitably. But that's what they want because it makes them feel safer at the end of the day that they will be taken care of, regardless if they work or not.....talk about entitlement. Free will and heroism has been long since eroded.

    They don't realize that they are going to wake up one day and there's going to be a unelected bureaucrat from a totalitarian state agency that is going to make all the decisions for them with the full weight of the state behind them; and by that time it will be too late turn things around because of the misuse of technology....(like how China is implementing facial recognition in an all seeing surveillance state. It's going to get to the point where you will be recognized by AI as having an angry face, next thing you know you have FBI agents at your door to find out why you're upset).

    “It is thus necessary that the individual should finally come to realize that his own pride is of no importance in comparison with the existence of his nation; that the position of the individual ego is conditioned solely by the interests of the nation as a whole; that pride and conceitedness, the feeling that the individual ... is superior, so far from being merely laughable, involve great dangers for the existence of the community that is a nation; that above all the unity of a nation’s spirit and will are worth far more than the freedom of the spirit and the will of an individual; and that the higher interests involved in the life of the whole must here set the limits and lay down the duties of interests of the individual. ... By this we understand only the individual's capacity to make sacrifices for the community, for his fellow men. - Adolf Hitler.
    Wasn't this guy supposed to be evil or something?
    Also, werent the Nazi's not supposed to be socialist?
    HitlerSocialist-1024x535.jpg


    It is extreme, it is already happening. We will have zero freedoms left. But that's just my opinion (which looks like is slowly coming to fruition). Its Fabian style Socialism.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  2. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    A few questions:

    1) What rights/freedoms do you feel are going away, currently? Please be specific.

    2) Of those rights, how do you feel like a complete capitalist society will correct and by what mechanism(s)?

    3) What rights do you feel Democratic Socialism will take away from you?
     
  3. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

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    Free speech. I see the term hate speech seeping it's way in, eventually leading to more censorship, for starters.

    2. Has less to do capitalism but moreso limited government.

    3. The right to keep more of my money than already being taken through taxes.

    I probably shouldve waited to respond to this. One step at a time. I'm probably going to wake up with a sworm of angry hornets at my front door with all of the responses to my previous post. Just for sharing my opinion
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  4. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    Can you give some examples?

    How do you feel that capitalism will reduce the size of government?

    If the goal is to retain more money, how do you think the typically higher prices of goods and services with a capitalist model will affect that? Again, an example would be helpful.
     
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  5. zappatton2

    zappatton2 SS.org Regular

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    It seems strange to talk about "freedom" while embracing autocracy in America, but the term freedom itself is a touch easy to bend towards self-validating notions (paying taxes is theft from me, curbing hate speech and misinformation is attacking freedom of my speech, ect.). Freedom on a national scope, to me, is freedom of the press, separation of powers (a government agency does not exist to impose the government's political will, but to safeguard civil society and civil rights), equality of opportunity and access, etc.

    No finer an authority on the matter is Freedom House (https://freedomhouse.org/sites/default/files/Feb2019_FH_FITW_2019_Report_ForWeb-compressed.pdf), I don't expect you'll read the whole thing, I myself have read a summation of it (https://www.cbc.ca/news/thenational/national-today-newsletter-civil-rights-bletchley-park-1.5162886) and gone through portions of it, but they basically makes the case that the world over, democracy is eroding, and the USA under Trump is doing its best to help that along. He is a wannabe strongman, and you should be eternally grateful that there are powers that keep him in check.

    According to Freedom House's methodology, while Finland, Sweden and Norway all score a perfect 100 on measures of freedom, America has been on the decline since Bush Jr. (currently scoring an 86), and that decline has picked up since Trump came to power. Anyone speaking about "freedom" should be concerned about this individual who is as illiberal a President as America has perhaps ever had, relative to the times.
     
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  6. Randy

    Randy Sous Chef Super Moderator

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    A guy in my office was playing Rush Limbaugh yesterday and I hear a caller come in on the phone "We need to take our country back!". Says the party controlling 2 1/2 out of 3 branches of our federal government! At best it's constant victimhood but it's also very likely a play for consolidating more power.

    It's amazing to me that 21st century Republican leadership still gets a pass as being the party of freedom.
     
  7. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    "When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."
     
  8. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    I think Pelosi, having been resistant to just impeachment when removal from office isn't guaranteed (with Senate Repubiclans using the same insistence as recent attempted arguments in this topic), dropped a truth bomb in stating recently that her goal for Trump is prison. Actually saying the word (according to sourcing I find credible) after dodging the "I" word is a strong indicator.

    Now, back to concern trolling in the pursuit of distraction!
     
  9. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

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    No because it is not a "thing" yet, lawfully....I just see it becoming law in the future.

    The genie is not getting back in the bottle.

    Let me keep my money first, then we'll cross that bridge when we get there ;)
     
  10. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    :shrug:

    That's not answering the question as asked.

    If you're not going to engage seriously, don't even bother replying.

    We've all given you a lot of leeway. At this point, if all you're going to post is rhetoric, perhaps you shouldn't post in here.
     
  11. tedtan

    tedtan SS.org Regular

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    So your concern is based on irrational fear rather than facts. I can't blame you for feeling this way, as we've given up a lot of freedoms post 9/11 (mainly under Bush 2's presidency, but continued under Obama and Trump, as well).

    But do keep in mind that capitalism is an economic system, e.g., how a country's economy produces and allocates money and other scarce resources. Capitalism vs. social socialism vs. communism don't affect freedoms; freedom is taken away by authoritarian rulers, not economic systems.


    Glad to see that you realize that this is a moot point, but why did you bring it up if you know it is moot?


    We've tried it in the past and workers are abused (overworked in unsafe conditions, under paid, pricing to consumers is much higher, companies put their competitors out of the market in order to become monopolies raising prices to consumers even more, etc.). Do a little research into the industrial revolution in Europe and the US to see what a more laissez faire capitalist society looks like.
     
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  12. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

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    I cant post my opinion? I made a lengthy post of which I am dead serious about what I say or else I wouldnt waste my time with a lengthy post. At the end of said post I have said that this was just my opinion. I see many, many posts in here, none of which I've interrogated anyone and asked to post their reference links to back up their opinion. Yet my posts are being scutinized under microscope. Like that other dude said a few pages back, I dont know why I bother. So I will stop
     
  13. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Don't waste your time, because you're obviously failing to comprehend something that's pretty clear to everyone else in this thread.

    There are PLENTY of symbols of capitalism one could choose to display - walking around carrying a copy of Wealth of Nations, for example, or a t-shirt bearing the logo of a free market publication like The Economist (which you'd probably be surprised to hear I subscribe and read regularly). There are plenty of symbols someone could display to show they're Republicans, as well - a T-shirt with Reagan quotes, or a baseball hat with the GOP elephant on it.

    A MAGA hat is a symbol showing support for a single Republican candidate, one of 16 in 2016, with a long history of racism prior to entering politics (for example, taking out newspaper adds calling for the death penalty for the Central Park Five, and several lawsuits for refusing to rent properties to minorities) whose main policy differences from the GOP platform before him were 1) Banning Muslims from entering America, and 2) building a wall on the southern border to stop "drug dealers, rapists, and killers" from Mexico crossing the border. Since being elected, he has slashed legal immigration into this country, repeatedly pointedly refuse to condemn white nationalism after white nationalist terror attacks, referred to non-white majority countries as "shithole countries" that he didn't want immigrants from, while mulling "why can't we have more immigrants from places like Norway?"

    So, no, a MAGA hat is not a symbol of capitalism, or even Republicanism. It's a symbol stating that you believe what Trump is doing is right... And Trump is pushing a racist, xenophobic agenda, while actively courting white nationalists.

    And, anyone wearing a MAGA hat, a symbol that is pretty broadly interpreted as being racist, is both aware of the connotations of the symbol, and doesn't give enough of a shit about being seen as a racist to wear some other symbol, like a Republican elephant, to show they're a republican. So, yeah, if someone is going to make the active choice to display a symbol of racial intolerance, then I'm going to take it at face value.

    You're absolutely entitled to an opinion. You're NOT, however, entitled to your own facts. Good riddance.
     
  14. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    I feel like I've heard this before.
     
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  15. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    He's also trying to steer the conversation back to capitalism and "Nazis were liberal socialists" because he knows he's wrong here and he'd rather change the subject than admit that.
     
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  16. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    what do you expect?
     
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  17. Thaeon

    Thaeon Cosmic Question Asker

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    Quoting what Hitler stated about his regime, and looking at the practices of it are two completely separate things. There was little liberal or socialist in the activities of the Nazi party. They were actively attempting to return Germany more 'conservative' values, and practicing extreme nationalism, and national exceptionalism. In addition to all the human rights atrocities.
     
  18. Randy

    Randy Sous Chef Super Moderator

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    Also convenient to ignore Nazis executing homosexuals and Communists, and classifying Muslims and blacks as subhuman. But no, Nazis are more like liberals because the word 'Socialism' appeared somewhere.
     
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  19. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    ...or the fact that we already had this conversation 5-7 pages back, thoroughly put it to bed back then, but he's returning to it now to change the subject now that he's also losing the "If you think a person in a MAGA hat is racist, you're just as bad as they are" conversation to try to save face.
     
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  20. Randy

    Randy Sous Chef Super Moderator

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    The 'ignore' button is your friend. He's got good taste in gear and his avatar is Space Ghost, so he's in the top half of my favorite posters on this site regardless of what happens in this thread.

    That said, his participation in here is 100% shitposting.
     
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