US Political Discussion: Trump Administration Edition (Rules in OP)

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by mongey, Mar 2, 2016.

  1. PunkBillCarson

    PunkBillCarson SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    1,590
    Likes Received:
    985
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Location:
    Paragould, AR

    Entirely possible, especially these days. Fact is what people don't understand is that when it's a car colliding into another car, yeah, it's dangerous, but for a biker or someone riding a bicycle, it's that much more fatal which is why extra special care needs to be given. These days, people just don't give a fuck, though.
     
    Spaced Out Ace likes this.
  2. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    736
    Likes Received:
    477
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2019
    Its why I would never ride my bike on any road other than a small residential sidestreet
     
  3. Ordacleaphobia

    Ordacleaphobia Shameless Contrarian

    Messages:
    2,175
    Likes Received:
    1,518
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2013
    Location:
    Chico, CA
    I was referring more to the strange wording of the bolded "quote." Kind of a joke :lol:

    Maybe, but I'm not sure it should hold the weight you're implying it should. People change. 10+ years is a long time.
    You guys recoiled at mention of her name as if she's some cringe top-hat avatar-using YouTuber on a quest to own the SJWs. She said some dumb shit in her early 20s, got some real life experience, and realized that surprise; people in their early 20s actually don't have the world all figured out. I don't see why that should follow her for the rest of her career.

    This is my whole beef with 'cancel culture' in general. Who was it, was it Kevin Hart? That lost their gig for hosting the Oscars or something like over some dumb shit they said off hand like 10 years ago that wasn't even all that bad? I feel like people are slowly forgetting how to let go and move on.

    Yeah, not gunna do it for me. Both have caved to the pressure to play identity politics. That shit is toxic and needs to disappear ASAP.

    I will say I appreciate that both have silicon valley in their sights; but they aren't concerned about the full picture, to my knowledge. Their primary concern is a breakup.
    And for the record, like you, I'm not saying "I'm right and you're wrong," just that I have my opinions for a reason and I think they're justifiable; not simply because "she stuck her thumb in the eye of at least one SJW segment of the population."

    Well that's a hell of a wednesday afternoon. Sounds like it could have been much worse though, so...you know, small victories I guess. That's rough man.

    Personally, in a vacuum I'm inclined to agree with your summary. If you don't want to risk it, take the damn hat off.
    Buuuuuuuuttttt.....isn't that kind of like the political version of "oh honey, you shouldn't go out dressed like that"?
    Is it right if I say "statistically, white people commit a disproportionately high amount of mass shootings, therefore I think there's a higher likelihood that this guy's a murderer"?

    So someone puts the MAGA hat on. They support the president. We agree on this.
    The president is a xenophobe. Well, agree to disagree, but even if you assume that's true, now what? If I support the man, does that I mean I support everything he does?
    I mean, look at the parallel conversation I'm having with Max right now. Tulsi has a few policies I very, very strongly agree with, and some others that I think are dumb. Am I not permitted to wear a 'Vote Tulsi' shirt until I agree with all of her policies?

    How many candidates have you fully supported in your lifetime?
    Or, more relevant to this board...how many guys have you seen in a band shirt for a band they've never listened to / gone to a show? :lol:

    That also folds back into "How many of them are even aware of everything that he's done / said / supported / attempted?"
    I don't think you're gunna win me over on this one, Drew. I just can't see a situation where making those kind of assumptions about people is productive.

    He's being facetious.
     
    Adieu and MetalHex like this.
  4. PunkBillCarson

    PunkBillCarson SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    1,590
    Likes Received:
    985
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Location:
    Paragould, AR
    ^Well the biggest question there is you know with Progressivism, the idea is to progress and move on from mistakes in the past and learn from them. It seems to me that in today's world there's only enough room for people to learn from other people's mistakes rather than a person moving on from their own mistakes. If you learn from someone else's racially charged bullshit, it's considered that you're breaking the cycle but a person for some reason can't do that for themselves and to me, that's bullshit.
     
  5. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

    Messages:
    33,736
    Likes Received:
    17,953
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Location:
    Racine, WI
    Again, not saying she needs to burned at the stake for it, but it's something to consider.

    Six years. That was the gap between calling gay folks who wanted to get married "homosexual extremists" and apologizing when it started threatening her future political career.

    Color me hopeful, yet unimpressed.

    I just said she's not my favorite and didn't like the baggage, which is obviously going to come up more than once on the campaign trail.

    Again, that's fine.

    What have I said that implies that I've "canceled" her?

    It's easy to gloss over past wrongs when they have no effect on you.

    I have no ill will towards Gabbard, but when campaigning for something as significant as high office, I don't think all past acts should disappear. They should be evaluated and considered.

    We all have different causes we hold dear. Just as you're willing to look past Gabbards past homophobia, I'm willing to give Sanders and Warren wiggle room on certain issues.

    In the end, I'd hope that when the time comes we'll both vote for the candidate who we feel will do best for the country and it's people, and not get held up on smaller issues. But if not, it's a free country. Vote how you will.

    Honestly, the fact that someone who tends to lean towards the right/libertarian side like yourself is willing to endorse a far left progressive is great.
     
    Ordacleaphobia likes this.
  6. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    3,685
    Likes Received:
    2,405
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Damn @Drew, get well soon!
     
    narad and Ordacleaphobia like this.
  7. possumkiller

    possumkiller SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    4,303
    Likes Received:
    2,566
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Location:
    Danzig
    Nope. The public defender kept talking about 20 years (5 years each for four counts consecutive) over that bullshit if I went to trial and lost so I said fuck it and plead no contest in exchange for a reduction to one count, withholding adjudication, and three years probation.

    Nine years later and I still can't get a decent job...
     
    Adieu likes this.
  8. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

    Messages:
    33,736
    Likes Received:
    17,953
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Location:
    Racine, WI
    Even in Poland? That's rough dude. :(
     
  9. possumkiller

    possumkiller SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    4,303
    Likes Received:
    2,566
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Location:
    Danzig
    Well I haven't really tried in Poland. My wife has a good job. I get paid studying online by the GI Bill and for taking care of our autistic little boy. One of us has to work and the other stays home. It just turns out I make more staying at home right now. I drove trucks for a couple of years before we moved here. I wouldn't recommend it. I was losing money driving for Crete.
     
    Adieu likes this.
  10. Ordacleaphobia

    Ordacleaphobia Shameless Contrarian

    Messages:
    2,175
    Likes Received:
    1,518
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2013
    Location:
    Chico, CA
    And two tours of duty in the Middle East. Tends to put a lot of things into perspective. I get what you're saying though.

    Nothing of the sort! Sorry, that piece wasn't directed at you. More of a general rant. It's the same type of attitude, though; the difference is that not everyone is reasonable about it. A moderate dose of skepticism is healthy, but 'cancel culture' overall tends to be ham-fisted. It's like the 'fool me once' saying, but instead jumping straight to 'fool me once, never work again.' Totally didn't mean to lump you in with that though and I apologize that it came off that way.

    In other news, researchers have finally confirmed that it's easy to misinterpret tone on the internet :lol:
     
  11. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

    Messages:
    5,943
    Likes Received:
    2,466
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    Washington
    Uncle Joe Creepy gropin' like it's 1986. :cool:
     
  12. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

    Messages:
    5,943
    Likes Received:
    2,466
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    Washington
    Adieu likes this.
  13. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

    Messages:
    33,736
    Likes Received:
    17,953
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Location:
    Racine, WI
    Those two tours give her a lot of cred, especially in circles that are typically more conservative.

    It's probably what lead to her current foreign policy stances, which I generally understand if not outright agree with. I could do without the anti-Muslim coding and cozying up with Assad, but it's still better than most on the other side of the aisle who have no qualms with Saudi Arabia, which is arguably more problematic.
     
  14. Ralyks

    Ralyks The One Who Knocks Contributor

    Messages:
    4,254
    Likes Received:
    981
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Location:
    Dutchess County, NY
  15. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

    Messages:
    5,513
    Likes Received:
    1,974
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2013
    Location:
    Chicago
    You made a false equivalency between being black and choosing to purchase and then wear in public a hat representative of support for a racist man with racist political policies.

    lol wow man... That is quite the hypothetical. No racial slavery. No Civil War. No racial lynchings. No MLK day.

    Just to be clear, judging people by how they choose to appear, and especially their apparel, is not equivalent to racial discrimination or stereotyping. If I see a black guy and assume he listens to hip hop, that is different than seeing a black guy in a Tupac shirt and assuming he listens to hip hop.

    You're right that it might not be 100% accurate. I see these Hollywood celebs wearing metal shirts for fashion. So what percent of metal shirt wearers do you think they account for? 0.00005% maybe?
     
  16. Ordacleaphobia

    Ordacleaphobia Shameless Contrarian

    Messages:
    2,175
    Likes Received:
    1,518
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2013
    Location:
    Chico, CA
  17. Ordacleaphobia

    Ordacleaphobia Shameless Contrarian

    Messages:
    2,175
    Likes Received:
    1,518
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2013
    Location:
    Chico, CA
    Yeahhhhhhhh boi it is. We're goin deep.
    But no, no it isn't different. At least, not in the literal sense. You're doing the same thing in both instances, it's just that one has a much higher chance of you being correct than the other.

    This is exactly what "red hat = racist" is. Statistically, you may well be right. It may well be the case that if you poll 100 random americans and 100 MAGAbois, that there's triple the number of racists in that group. I wouldn't blame you for having suspicions that they may not exactly buy into the 'cultural melting pot' idea. But you can't know for sure, and as long as there is one single guy in that group that is not a racist, you're in the wrong making that assumption.

    --
    Edit- I should also add that I recognize in your two examples there is an additional difference as well, and that is the reason behind the assumption. The first example comes from some sort of racial stereotype, and would serve as a good indicator of bad faith. The second comes from a visual cue in the form of the shirt, and you made a logical 1 to 1 conversion from Tupac shirt -> Tupac listener. Not an indicator of bad faith. That's just like the Red hat -> Trump supporter connection. Logical conversion, no issue.
    But if you applied the same chain of logic being used here for the red hats, (which goes something like Red hat -> Trump supporter -> Trump has some nasty immigration policies -> Probably hates immigrants -> is a racist) and went from Tupac shirt -> Tupac listener -> fan of hip-hop -> some hip-hop artists are involved in gangs -> supporter of gang violence; this is clearly being done in bad faith, and if you do this, you aren't treating this person fairly.

    Hope that explains my thought process a bit more clearly.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
  18. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

    Messages:
    33,736
    Likes Received:
    17,953
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Location:
    Racine, WI
  19. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

    Messages:
    5,513
    Likes Received:
    1,974
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2013
    Location:
    Chicago
    Oh I gotcha. We're pretending that Trump supporters don't understand that Trump is a racist and that his policies are racial. "Muslim ain't a race!" Etc. Strong point. I gotta admit, Muslim ain't a race. And Mexican ain't no race neither!

    Edit: unless we're just saying that they're too stupid to understand... I could possibly buy into that.
     
    JoshuaVonFlash, JSanta and Randy like this.
  20. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

    Messages:
    6,620
    Likes Received:
    1,148
    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Location:
    Formerly from Cucaramacatacatirimilcote...
    Let's instead say that wearers of MAGA hats have no problem overlooking the racist policies and actions of Donald Trump, and others who view such actions and policies as racist also view those who are happily complicit in promoting such (by wearing the red hats) are at least racist enough to not be bothered by the racism of what they are willfully overlooking.

    Now, one might argue that it's not racist to overlook a policy to take brown children from their parents and put in cages at the southern border, while no such thing has happened at the northern border. One might also argue that it's not racist to embrace someone who finds fine people among Nazis.

    I personally find that if someone is okay with embracing a person that racist, that friendly with Nazis, and is okay with ignoring that kind of racism, there's no practical benefit to giving such a person the benefit of the doubt. They already went over the line, just as I'd not hang with people who were okay with being friends with a rapist. "Oh, he's never raped anyone we know, so what's the problem?" No, I'm good judging people by the company they keep and the people and policies they embrace.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.