US Political Discussion: Trump Administration Edition (Rules in OP)

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by mongey, Mar 2, 2016.

  1. Ralyks

    Ralyks The One Who Knocks Contributor

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    https://apple.news/AUi2kn-9tT22hAfbNMwxg_g

    So the IRS wrote a confidential internal memory saying that the IRS says tax returns must be given to Congress, unless the president invokes executive privilege. Basically contradicting Mnuchin and the Trump Adminstration in their reasoning as to why they shouldn't.
     
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  2. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    Just as our population is larger so is our GDP. We're the wealthiest country in the world.

    There is plenty of money available.

    The UK spends $160 billion for 66 million people. Assuming out costs are similar, that would translate to about $800 billion to take care of our 327 million people.

    Our GDP is about 20 trillion.

    We already spend more than that on insurance:

    https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-industry-overview

    So $800 billion for universal health care or $867 billion for the shit show we have now?

    Build up enough independent data and you can infer things beyond small anecdotes.


    [​IMG]

    We're number 1! :cheers:

    Most opioid addictions start at the doctor's office. Which socialized medicine can significantly curb.

    Still socialized, just not at the federal level.

    Though some agencies do get support via Federal Grants.

    Some do, but the number is incredibly small, even going by the highest estimates.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ates-for-medical-care/?utm_term=.8f82ee4b6463

    Though, far more Americans go abroad for healthcare:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/08/17/14-Million-Americans-Will-Go-Abroad-Medical-Care-Year-Should-You?amp
     
  3. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

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    Remind me, whats the national debt up to now?

    "We're number 1!"

    Again, your comparing without accounting for population....with our country have over twice that of the second largest on that list.
     
  4. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

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    Either you are colorblind or you just choose to see everything in black and white
     
  5. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    Oh, so we're fiscal conservative now? :lol:

    Remember, our system actually costs us more than universal healthcare. The money just goes to different places.

    If you had read my prior post you'd see that we spend $867 billion just on shitty health insurance. That's not even care, just insurance. We actually spend over $3.5 trillion on healthcare because we can't negotiate like countries with single payer.

    So if you're concerned about our deficit and debt, you'd be for universal healthcare.

    https://www.crfb.org/papers/american-health-care-health-spending-and-federal-budget
     
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  6. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

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    I agree thats a ridiculous amount wasted on a healthcare system that currently sucks ass, we're just in disagreement with how to solve it.
     
  7. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    How do you propose we solve it?
     
  8. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    Those numbers are adjusted for percentage of adult population. You understand what that means, yes?
     
  9. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

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  10. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    Do you have anything with more substance? Those are both opinion pieces.

    So the takeaway is that we need more, smaller, hospitals that actively compete against each other by reducing costs associated with billing, record keeping, legal compliance, and malpractice insurance.

    I don't see how that's going to make care better and cheaper. Maybe cheaper, but at what cost?

    Looking at late stage capitalism, what about more hospitals is going to stop consolidation and foster competition?

    I also wouldn't put much faith in an article based around The Manhattan Institute as they're nearly 50% funded by the insurance and pharmaceutical industries.
     
  11. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    Why are Americans the only people in the world to describe healthcare as a marketplace?

    Commodifying health is like the dumbest, least humane thing I can think of. The same people must think that murder should have a fine instead of jail time.

    Also, there's 130 people in Japan and 70 million people in the UK. Socialised healthcare works and if you think adding more people will do anything but reduce the cost per person, then I think you just don't know how medicine works in working systems.

    Everyone in the UK just wishes the government would spend more on the NHS, whereas implementing an NHS type system in the USA would save you billions of dollars a year. The US government already spends enough on healthcare to fund a single payer system, not even considering what you all waste on insurance.
     
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  12. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    But we need the FREEDOM to die a penniless burden on our loved ones, the LIBERTY to get tricked by charlatans because we're desperate to not die, and of course our sacred RIGHT to withhold life saving treatment for children.

    That's the thing. It's not about what's "humane" or "right" or even what's "best". It's about preserving meaningless platitudes and a sense of rugged individualism.

    And money. Don't forget the money. Because even though they can't take it with them, they'll sure as hell try.
     
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  13. Thaeon

    Thaeon Cosmic Question Asker

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    Dude, I have to wait THREE MONTHS to get into a new PCP. I live in San Antonio. ANY claim that Canada's system doesn't work based on claims like that is false on the merit that there are plenty places in the US that have the same problem.
     
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  14. Thaeon

    Thaeon Cosmic Question Asker

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    Might make care cheaper. But it does absolutely nothing about big pharma, and the equipment and technology required to run a hospital or Dr's office. This is a huge maybe, a gamble at best. We also have to acknowledge that cheaper isn't always the singular goal overall. We have to improve the level of care we provide in this country to match that of other countries around the world. Some of our statistics are worse than developing countries. That's not acceptable either.

    @MetalHex What about a free market guarantees individual liberty? And what kind of liberty are we talking about here? Liberty of choice? Liberty of deed? Liberty from tyranny? Everyone here is for individual liberty. To make that point, we all have to understand what is meant by that and more specifically in this case, what you mean by that specifically.
     
  15. synrgy

    synrgy Ya ya ya I am Lorde

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    That's a myth, full-stop. The wait times for specialists up there are roughly equivalent to here; based entirely upon how many patients a given specialist is serving in their area. This Friday, my 2.5 year-old daughter has an appointment with an (American) specialist that we've had to wait seven God damn months for. Every time I've moved and had to set up an appointment with a new (American) dentist, I've had to wait approximately 6 months.

    I've heard this myth espoused enough that it's become a trigger; I'm legitimately pissed off right now, because Americans regurgitate this lie all the time despite having to completely ignore their own personal medical histories to do so.

    Further, in the last few years, what we've actually been seeing is a rush of Americans going to Canada for care, because - even without insurance - it's drastically cheaper, there.

    *Sources = My direct experience, and that of my in-laws, as I'm married to a Canadian.
     
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  16. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    It's almost like a robust system which ensures things get paid for allows them to charge the actual amount. Instead of overcharging some patients to cover those that can't afford it.
     
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  17. possumkiller

    possumkiller SS.org Regular

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    I used to think since I was able to find my way out of being an ignorant conservative extremist tinfoil hat wearing moron that there was hope for my friends and family and the majority of Americans. I was wrong. The only reason I found my way out was because I have a very strong drive for fairness and equality. I kept an open mind when people were proving my beliefs to be wrong. I was willing to think differently and learn new things.
    Most people are brainwashed from birth and will do anything to stay in their comfort zone. They will complain all day long about doctors and medical companies ripping people off but they will never accept the idea of universal health care because it's a card carrying red commie concept and if ever implemented will instantly transform good god fearin muricans into atheist abortion loving satan worshipping muslim communists. They don't know how it works or how it will help them and they don't want to know. All they know is someone they think is important said it was evil and that's all they need.

    I don't mean to pick on metalhex here but he demonstrates the typical attitude and thoughts of the ignorant far right Trump supporting moron population. The way they dance around facts and logic reminds me of a clip from Religulous. Where Kirk Cameron was talking about how christians should talk to non-believers and must bypass people's intellect.
     
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  18. synrgy

    synrgy Ya ya ya I am Lorde

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    Sources show slight variance on the exact numbers, but generally, Canadians coming to The States for medical care number in tens-of-thousands per year, whereas Americans going to other countries for care number in the upper hundreds-of-thousands to low millions per year. According to this (US Gov.) source, California alone tracks nearly a million people per year traveling to Mexico for medical care.
     
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  19. Ralyks

    Ralyks The One Who Knocks Contributor

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    https://apple.news/ANMdPmxSwRZCWtExwW9hRzw

    On a different note, yes, Trumps lawyers appealed Mehtas decision. Who's going to be seeing that?

    Merrick Garland.

    Obama's gotta be loving that, and McConnells gotta be shitting himself.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
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  20. Randy

    Randy Sous Chef Super Moderator

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    The greatest irony of this being the urgency for appeals court to either decide this or issue a hold on Mehta's 7 day order (now down to 5 days). Perhaps Garland is inclined to return the favor of teaching them a lesson about patience and following the process.
     
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