US Political Discussion: Trump Administration Edition (Rules in OP)

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by mongey, Mar 2, 2016.

  1. Science_Penguin

    Science_Penguin SS.org Regular

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    Ehhhh... I dunno if I can agree with that...

    My definition of violence is pretty strict, so I'm not sure I can construe taking insurance and platforming on racial supremacy an act of violence.

    Taking insurance could be viewed as "oppression," sure, and just talking about racial supremacy certainly seems like a threat (if they're talking about ethnic cleansing or bringing back the days of segregation). The violence and the riots are certainly understandable as aggressive responses to that, but does that justify them? That's my question.

    Freedom of speech guarantees racists the right to say stupid things, yes, but that same freedom of speech gives you the right to stand up and tell them why what they're saying is stupid. That's how it works. So, until actual violent action is taken by them, I don't know that I can really claim "defense," on the riots against them.

    If we're talking about rioting against the government itself if you deem oppressive actions are being taken, that's not unheard of, but I've yet to see anyone march on government buildings with molotovs in hand (not that I want to...). All I've seen is riots in the streets, where the damage is all being done to common citizens and their property- the same citizens who are ALSO living under oppression, apparently.

    Now, we all know what would happen if people decided to attack government buildings, they'd be shot dead before they even got there. So, from my point of view, it's almost like "We NEED to get violent, but we can't take it here cause we'll die. Let's just take it into the streets."

    And, I'm sorry, but if you can't attack the right target, attacking the wrong target isn't going to do you any favors. I feel like, at that point, maybe you shouldn't attack anyone, maybe you should try something else.

    Yeah, that was funny... apparently the fact that it's a popular enough view means it MUST be true.

    Type "The earth is..." in google and see what the top result is. Oh, I guess our geography classes have failed us...
     
  2. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    I did leave some of the videos Frey posted on in the background. Several were about the Berkeley protest.

    One was about how someone kept insulting someone until she finally reacted by threatening him, and then the police refused to charge her because he was caught on video deliberately trying to provoke her.

    One was about how someone had a punch coming to her because she's a porn actress, even though the founder of a white supremacy group who punched her is shown on video coming out of nowhere and runnng over to her to punch her in the face. I think Frey's point is that reacng to insults is unexcusable, but sucker-punching someone with no previous interaction is upstanding.

    The best aspect of the videos Frey posted is the violent hate speech in the comment sections. If that was his proof of how violent the right is, then he got it right. If it was his proof of how violent the left is, he should have provided the left-wing examples of hate speech instead, because those right-wing comment sections were deplorable.

    Dude, if you're going to lecture people on how to use google effectively, you should definitely not provide overflowing cesspools of right-wing hate speech as your example of how the left is full of hate.

    I do like that such examples of open latrines were the easy examples for him to find, from sources Frey is obviously familiar with. It was an interesting look at those information sources, containing that hate, upon which Frey builds his world view. Thanks for the clarification on your views!
     
  3. Petar Bogdanov

    Petar Bogdanov SS.org Regular

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    Both sides are trying to make morality about political positions, while there's clearly a fringe terrorist group (antifa) on the left, and plain old thugs on the right.

    In my experience, people will be dicks, regardless of their origins, ideas and affiliations. The only thing that changes is who they are dicks to.
     
  4. UnderTheSign

    UnderTheSign SS.org Regular

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  5. PunkBillCarson

    PunkBillCarson SS.org Regular

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    Yeah this thread does nothing more than further instill in me that no one knows how to come together and that goes for the left and the right. You've both got good people and you both also have nutjobs. Why can't you understand this, is it really that hard?
     
  6. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    Wow, what's it like from the outside?
     
  7. PunkBillCarson

    PunkBillCarson SS.org Regular

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    It's pretty damn nice, actually. I don't let the fact that I love guns interfere with how I feel about immigration. I don't just fall into one line and subscribe to a certain party's beliefs like many do and forsake everything else. I take life one step at a time and live as best I can. We all have a finite number of years here and yet some of us are concerned what bathrooms someone should be able to use or what people do in their bedrooms. Humanity as a whole has honestly made me feel like we are the laughing stock of every known entity. A hard reset would do us some good, or hell, maybe not at all. Maybe .... people. If the best we can do is build a computer and bitch and complain about what everyone else does that isn't hurting anyone, then why even try? The few people out there living their lives who don't bother anyone, yeah they shouldn't be lumped in with everyone else, but since we all want to generalize because that's the game and the language that the left and the right love to use, maybe .... people. Maybe I'm too cynical and I don't put a whole lot of stock into humanity, but then again, there's probably a reason for that. So again, to answer your question, being on the outside is pretty goddamn good.
     
  8. feraledge

    feraledge Heard the Good News about Maple Fretboards?

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    As a descendent of Russian & Polish jews, some of whom barely escaped the Nazis, I agree with this to a degree. Trump is a lunatic narcissist, a poster boy for entitled neoteny. His turn towards fascism is incidental, "I want the power and I want the bad people to stop saying bad things about me." Which isn't saying he can't get to the same end point (though I personally think the thread should be titled "Is Trump really going to stay there?" as I suspect not).
    On the flip side, the Anti-Fa response is more about the company he keeps or is willing to keep to get where he needed to go. The fascist rise is legitimate and they're riding the wake well after he'd move on to the next group. Spencer got a platform because of Trump, but he no longer needs him to be heard. That's a major issue, fortunately fists still work nicely.
    But drawing correlations with Hitler are almost giving Trump credit. The schmuck's meal of choice is well done NY Strip with ketchup and he gives himself twice the scoops of ice cream than anyone else. He's not exactly a plotting guy, he's a shill of whoever snuck paper on his desk last to manipulate his immediate responses and is willing to lend an ear towards whoever complimented him last. All that is about as long lasting as the cans of Coke he gets with the press of a button he seriously had installed on the Oval Office desk. He's a world-class moron. A simpleton, at best. Where he ends up isn't a matter of philosophy, just singular vision, if any.

    As a side note, as an anarchist, I reject being called a liberal or a leftist. Both are insulting when you're against government as a whole.
     
  9. extendedsolo

    extendedsolo SS.org Regular

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    OH MY GOD SO MUCH IRONY WITH THIS POST AND YOU DON'T EVEN SEE IT!

    This dude over here trying to mic drop and claim victory with an internet meme.
     
  10. vansinn

    vansinn SS.org Regular

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    Fascinating discussions.

    I don't think Trump has voluntary changed side; I feel sure 'they' threatened his family.
    I wrote long ago it would be interesting to see how long it would take before they'd pull a Kennedy on him.

    He's now about to learn what it's like being CEO of the corporation known as US Inc.
    The share holders has stated their demands, time to execute, Mr. CEO.
    The 350 deal with the Saudis is forced upon him, as is the case with one of his family stating how satisfied she is with Saudi Arabia's progress on women's rights.

    America hasn't selected a president since Lincoln has killed, after issuing Presidential order #100, which placed America under Marshall law so he could become Commander in Chief and implement strategies against the gang-banging banksters and the military-industrial complex.
    And then they shot him before he could finish his work. What a loss for America - and all the rest of us.
     
  11. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    Well I see that your location setting is correct.
     
  12. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    So, since a troll has suceeded in railroading this into a discussion on whether or not the left is violent (hint - by and large, no, and only then generally only with significant provokation), let's maybe go back to Trump. :lol:

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/334326-the-memo-trump-base-shows-signs-of-cracking

    New Reuters poll today suggesting Trump's base is beginning to crack. While an intra-party approval of 75% certainly sounds respectable, the historical norm is north of 85-90%, and anything below 80% is generally "downright alarming."

    Certainly could be an outlier, but on the flipside Irish betting markets are implying that people willing to put their money where their mouth is think Trump finishing a term is a 50-50 proposition, and there's a 25% shot he doesn't finish the year. Meanwhile, the "left-wing" yet still reasonably credible media - see: MSNBC, partisan as hell but they don't just make .... up (see: Breitbart) - has largely moved on from Trump to stories about what Pence knew and when about Flynn, which if I were Trump I'd consider the fact they're treating my political demise like a foregone conclusion is also deeply alarming.

    Hey, who knows, though. Maybe he'll shock pretty much everyone and negotiate an Israeli-Palestinian peace deal where thousands before him have failed, this week while overseas. :lol:
     
  13. Black Mamba

    Black Mamba SS.org Regular

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    Yeah, the violent riots that have occurred since the 2016 election campaign began are the result of significant provocation. The rioters that broke windows, attacked people, attacked vehicles, etc... were simply provoked when Trump held a rally or when a conservative was to speak on campus.

    No, I do not think this is indicative of the left in general, but can only imagine how the media and liberals would react if the situation were reversed.
     
  14. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Hey, Nixon did some pretty cool stuff for human rights and global politics before he was forced to resign. I honestly could see something like that from Trump. After all, he is a dreamer. :lol:
     
  15. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    You mean the fact we've been pretty level-headed about the fact that white supremacist rallies and KKK parades have been on the rise? Yeah, I'd say we've reacted pretty calmly and coolly, all things considered. :yesway:

    To be fair, the ACA basically was a version of Romney's universal coverage plan for Massachusetts, which drew its inspiration from the Republican alternative to Hillarycare, which in turn was based on Nixon's proposals before he went down for spying on his political rivals.

    On one hand, the fact that Nixon was brought down by his own paranoia (he either authorized or was "more likely than not generally aware" of a breaking into the campaign headquarters of a campaign he was winning by a landslide) is something that should not be lost on Trump.

    On the other, say what you will about Nixon and everything he stood for, he certainly was a whole heck of a lot more effective than Trump has been thus far. :lol:
     
  16. tedtan

    tedtan SS.org Regular

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    ^

    Well, Nixon was possibly a bad guy, but he was also a good politician and understood politics whereas Trump is an outsider who doesn't understand how things pertaining to politics and the office of POTUS work, so the fact that Nixon was more successful in the political arena shouldn't come as a surprise.
     
  17. synrgy

    synrgy Ya ya ya I am Lorde

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    The "all liberal positions are now invalid because Black Bloc" thing must be getting disseminated on troll boards. I'm seeing it all over my FB. Doesn't matter what the topic is; somehow it always comes back to "no, you're wrong, because I can't tell the difference between fringe anarchists and domesticated liberals."
     
  18. Black Mamba

    Black Mamba SS.org Regular

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    Yet, since the election campaign began, all of the violence has come from the left. Time after time a supposed hate crime has turned out to be a hoax. :yesway:
     
  19. Black Mamba

    Black Mamba SS.org Regular

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    If you read my initial post I clearly state:

    "No, I do not think this is indicative of the left in general, but can only imagine how the media and liberals would react if the situation were reversed."

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but have any prominent liberal leaders condemned the repeated riots?
     
  20. synrgy

    synrgy Ya ya ya I am Lorde

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    To be clear, I wasn't responding to you, but a line of logic I keep seeing come up from (presumably) unrelated people.

    In this thread, I noticed a different user raise the topic first, anyway, but my point was more that I was seeing it in multiple places; not just here.
     

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