US Political Discussion: Biden/Harris Edition (Rules in OP)

bostjan

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yeah not to be a doomer, but this is where I seriously think about trying to find a way to move somewhere else...I'm trying to have clean drinking water at the bare minimum, not even including the whole climate change business.
You're just across the corner of a lake from a state where residents were being poisoned by municipal water. :(

Anything not specifically stipulated in their charter. The argument West Virginia made, that the Court ultimately supported, was the EPA was created to regulate the emission of various forms of pollution and toxic chemicals, and are free to do so as they see fit, but they do not have congressional authority to regulate anything other than the forms of pollution indicated in the law that created them so they have no constitutional authority to regulate carbon dioxide. Other greenhouse gasses - CFCs for instance - seem to still be ok.

In practice this is maybe less impactful than it could be, since pretty much all of corporate America wants to reduce CO2 emissions outside of the energy sector, and even they are coming around here and there. But, it's still pretty stupid, and the optics for the court, as they make a ruling that cuts across public opinion for the second time in a week, with even Republicans gradually warming to the need to tackle climate change, aren't great.
I think the deeper implication is the evoking of the non-delegation principle. But maybe it'll lead to nothing (keep in mind, though, that the last ~500 times I said "maybe it'll lead to nothing, it ended up leading to something).
That makes a lot of sense. I didn't know you were taking additional classes at Trump U besides Fascism 101 and Advanced Fluffing 301?
I guess they don't teach at Trump U that the EPA was actually initially chartered by a Republican administration (Nixon).
 

Glades

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Trumpers aren't Nixon Republicans. They aren't Republicans at all.

I can't wait to read the majority opinion and dissent tonight. It's interesting for sure.
What is going to be interesting to study from the opinion is if agencies can't make up laws through regulations, what will happen to the ATF (another agency comprised of non-elected officials). There are thousands of gun "laws" in this country that are not laws at all. I will make a bag of popcorn before I start reading this dandy.
 

Drew

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No, that was a proverbial middle-finger to the EPA. :fever:
My truck-my choice. Let diesels breathe. No EGR, No DPF, No CATs, No DEF!
And evidently, no one home, despite the lights being on. :lol:

The decision limited, but did not entirely prevent, the EPA's ability to regulate carbon dioxide emissions at power plants. Didn't do a thing to the agency's ability to regulate automobile emissions. :lol:
 

bostjan

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Trumpers aren't Nixon Republicans. They aren't Republicans at all.
Republicans are currently defined as whoever is anti-democrat, essentially. Some are moderate (more than usual) conservative Christians who want prayer back in schools and who wanted the band on abortions, and they got their way now that Trump's SCotUS appointees reversed both of those in just the past few days.

Then there are the gun republicans who just want relaxed gun laws (which they never got, since, as I've pointed out to them several times already, Trump's executive branch prosecuted more gun laws and wrote more restrictive gun policies than any other president ever).

Then there were the ones who just want to undo affirmative action and other social-racial policies. Then there were the ones who really wanted to see gay people be punished like it was the 15th century again. Then there were the ones who really wanted big businesses to go unregulated.

The only thing they all have in common is regression on policies. I mean literally regressive as in, their position is "everything is f*cked because these policies were all wrong and we need to set it back the way it was before."

That's really the only thing Republicans have holding them together anymore.

When Nixon was in power, they had a good chance at being the majority. But nowadays, well, Dubya lost the popular vote, Trump lost the popular vote by a large margin... it kind of suggests that the GOP just doesn't hold the popular power anymore. The only way they get their guys elected is through technicalities. And they've really embraced that. But anyway, being a perpetual minority, they don't have the political power anymore to afford making a platform with different line items. It just has to be this way, where they just copy off of the Democrats' test, but put the opposite answer down for each thing.
 

mmr007

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I honestly can't see the difference between someone who thinks a truck that purposely shoots out black soot into the air is cool and sticking it to the EPA and someone who never flushes a toilet in their own house. You do realize you breath that toxic air too right? It doesn't just seek out lib lungs.
 

wheresthefbomb

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I honestly can't see the difference between someone who thinks a truck that purposely shoots out black soot into the air is cool and sticking it to the EPA and someone who never flushes a toilet in their own house. You do realize you breath that toxic air too right? It doesn't just seek out lib lungs.

 

Hollowway

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No, that was a proverbial middle-finger to the EPA. :fever:
My truck-my choice. Let diesels breathe. No EGR, No DPF, No CATs, No DEF!
But don't you worry that if there are no regulations that the individual people will be screwed over? That's my fear. I am very much into personal rights, and live and let live. And, again, it seems to me both sides keep trying to legislate stuff that dictates what we can and cannot do. If there is no one overseeing big companies dumping crap into rivers, or doing a Flint Michigan thing to our water, who is going to protect us? I get that it's your truck, so it's your choice. But if the government doesn't push companies to get better fuel economy, and better fuel, are you comfortable filling up your truck for 8 miles to the gallon with fuel that will kill your engine in 50,000 miles?

Often, people say that the market will sort this out. But, that only matters if the market is able to operate, and if big companies can sue little companies out of existence, or if they can use the government to squash little companies, we'll always have these monopolies, and never the polypolies needed to allow market forces to work. I'm not saying that a government with oversight can run things best. But I AM saying that a government withOUT oversight can't run things at all. It's actually worse than no government at all, because you have all the crooked politicians taking lobbyist money to screw up the free market and keep the status quo for the biggest companies.

The other thing is that we have numerous real world examples of how government with oversight and protections of the individual have resulted in better living conditions for the whole of the nation. And we have numerous real world examples of hour government designed to NOT protect the individual have resulted in poorer living conditions for the whole of the nation. So it's not like it's an academic argument. We have very clear paths that we can go down. And it's clear that these recent changes by SCOTUS, and what Trump and some of the right-leaning GOP want, is not the path to a better life for the average American.
 

Hollowway

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I can't wait to read the majority opinion and dissent tonight. It's interesting for sure.
What is going to be interesting to study from the opinion is if agencies can't make up laws through regulations, what will happen to the ATF (another agency comprised of non-elected officials). There are thousands of gun "laws" in this country that are not laws at all. I will make a bag of popcorn before I start reading this dandy.
Also, I think it's cool that you're in here discussing this stuff. I would like to hear more of your thinking on these topics, because I have trouble trying to talk about this stuff with the conservative people I know, because they just get mad, and say a few "I owned the lib" things, and disengage. I try to read about why people vote GOP these days (when it seems to be against their individual interests) but it's really hard to actually talk with someone to try to understand it.
 

Adieu

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No, that was a proverbial middle-finger to the EPA. :fever:
My truck-my choice. Let diesels breathe. No EGR, No DPF, No CATs, No DEF!

Very partial agree on the DPF part

That's not a filter that's a "burn large soot into micro/nanosoot" device. Not because it's cleaner (FUCK NO it isn't, and the nano stuff actually gets through your skin), but simply because only specific large sizes of soot are regulated.
 

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