US Political Discussion: Biden/Harris Edition (Rules in OP)

tedtan

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But the opposite happened. The SCOTUS (part of the federal government) rescinded its power to make a determination on such “right” and passed the power over to the people. The overturning of Roe vs Wade is an example of a shrinking federal government.
No, the ruling ignored the fact that the federal government sets forth rights (see the Bill of Rights you mentioned earlier in the thread) in favor of turning that role over to the heavily gerrymandered state legislatures.

There has been no power to the people; that would mean giving the people the choice.
 

Xaios

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But the opposite happened. The SCOTUS (part of the federal government) rescinded its power to make a determination on such “right” and passed the power over to the people. The overturning of Roe vs Wade is an example of a shrinking federal government.
But he didn't say "SCOTUS", did he? He said "right wingers", and there are currently several GOP controlled states that are doing their damndest to strip women of their abortion rights.
 

Glades

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But he didn't say "SCOTUS", did he? He said "right wingers", and there are currently several GOP controlled states that are doing their damndest to strip women of their abortion rights.
Those politicians were elected, by the people. That’s how democracy works.
 

Randy

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"Vote Democrat to save the world" might work, if we had any indication that the Democrats would try to save the world. Instead we have a choice between watching the Republicans continue to destroy the world actively, or watching the Democrats get power and sit on their thumbs while the world continues to be destroyed.

I'm beginning to understand the people that said they voted for Trump because they feel like they're watching a giant toilet every time the election cycle comes up, and they'd like somebody to finish flushing it. Maybe destroying the world is the only way out of this quagmire of nothing?

Not saying I'll go Republican anytime soon, but the Democrats need to give me something to vote *FOR* rather than against, or I'm gonna have a hard time thinking my trashed votes on the national level matter. Which they don't, since this state will bleed red until it kills itself.

I guess now would be an appropriate time for...

IMG_20220628_104508.jpg
 

Xaios

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Those politicians were elected, by the people. That’s how democracy works.
Tell me, if "democracy" voted to execute all Christians, would you be so blasé? Would you walk to the gas chamber saying "well, that's democracy for ya"?

We both know the answer to that question, but let me be clear, I'm not asking rhetorically. I wanna see you say whatever you plan to say.
 

Glades

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Tell me, if "democracy" voted to execute all Christians, would you be so blasé? Would you walk to the gas chamber saying "well, that's democracy for ya"?

We both know the answer to that question, but let me be clear, I'm not asking rhetorically. I wanna see you say whatever you plan to say.
If democracy voted to kill 3000 innocent human babies each day, would you be so blasé?
 

JSanta

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If democracy voted to kill 3000 innocent human babies each day, would you be so blasé?

And thankfully in your case, as a Republic, the minority have found a way to inflict their will on the majority. No one is celebrating abortions, but what a woman decides to do with her body is her choice. And if a woman is raped or coerced and becomes pregnant, the autonomy of those fetal cells has more rights than the person carrying them.

And that can be the great thing about this country. You can abhor abortion as a scourge of the planet, but there never should be laws that prohibit an individual autonomy over their own bodies.

It's also evident that from a legal perspective, cells in a womb are not children. You can't write them off in your taxes and the courts can't go after deadbeat parents for child support for something that isn't real yet.

Be proud in what you believe, I gladly wore the uniform to support your perspective, even if I disagree. But as soon as self-righteous religious people start demanding that laws reflect their religion, I have a problem with that. We all should. If the GOP in this country actually cared about children, parents wouldn't go broke paying for medical or child care, the poor would have some level of social safety net. We don't. This is not about abortion, it's about control. Instead, red states continue to chip away funding from safety nets and instead of taking care of actual alive children, criticize them for needing the support that has been stripped away.
 

StevenC

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But the opposite happened. The SCOTUS (part of the federal government) rescinded its power to make a determination on such “right” and passed the power over to the people. The overturning of Roe vs Wade is an example of a shrinking federal government.
This is outstanding mental gymnastics.

You're just saying that big government is only good at the state level. But then the GOP have stated that they will codify abortion as illegal federally if they win the mid terms.

Regulating someone's rights is big government. Roe v Wade was about constitutional privacy and found (originally) that the government had no say in bodily autonomy. Changing that is increasing government reach.
 

StevenC

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If democracy voted to kill 3000 innocent human babies each day, would you be so blasé?
Fuck out of here.

It's not about babies and you know it. Is organ harvesting legal? Is it legal to force someone to donate a kidney when someone's life is at risk?

Turns out the answer is no. Medical ethics and bodily autonomy say time and time again in every other circumstance that my right to my body is more important than sacrificing it for yours. It is no different with abortion. Stop it with the strawmen.
 

Mathemagician

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I'd generalize that even further and say that the political right seeks to return to a golden era in the past (that may or may not have ever existed in the first place, but that's besides the point), while the political left believes that we can build a tomorrow that's better than today. Progress versus preservation.


It’s was an imagined golden age when minorities were kept out of the job and housing markets. They weren’t even allowed to vote until the 60’s.

Where women where kept trapped at home and could not open a bank account alone until the 60’s.

They watch liberal hollywood propaganda like Leave it to Beaver of how the 40’s and 50’s used to be and see that their grandparents afforded a house on a middle school education and one job and put the two together.

They ignore the fact that corporate tax rates were greater than 70% and that we had many of the largest government social works projects in US history during that time.

Money flowed down out of companies and into people pockets, and their taxes also provided support systems which boomers have since gutted under the guise of “cutting costs”.



But the opposite happened. The SCOTUS (part of the federal government) rescinded its power to make a determination on such “right” and passed the power over to the people. The overturning of Roe vs Wade is an example of a shrinking federal government.

This is disingenuous as always.

1) Due to Roe v Wade, that right to medicine was already decided and guaranteed to ALL women.

2) The GOP thus created MORE government waste by turning it into 50 states all deciding whether women had a right to self determination or not. Each with its own made up nonsense based on a fairy tale.

But you know this. The “return it to the people” line is selected on purpose. It’s waved around to gloss over the fact that just because people make a law that allows one group to take away rights from another group does not make it just.

Slavery was legal too. It was “left up to the states”. That doesn’t make it ok.

Not that I expect to convince a troll like Glades. Just drawing the slippery slope parallels for others who might be reading.
 
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wheresthefbomb

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Maybe Civics 100 should be a prerequisite so one can understand Civics 101

There is absolutely no way to be successful with this discussion until everyone involved has taken biology 101

this dude is out here doing free advertising for community college
 

narad

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Nazis/fascists are right wing in Europe (that’s how a lot of parliaments sit), but not in America. In American politics left vs right has to do with size of government. Left wingers believe in the expansion of the federal government, right wingers in the shrinking of the federal government. Fascism and Nazism (National-Socialism) are perfect examples of extreme large socialist federal governments. This is Civics 101.
Sounds a lot more like Quora help-my-SSO-argument101.
 

fantom

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Hear me out... Maybe the abortion ban is a good thing. Blue States will continue to have abortion. Full stop. The Supreme Court is basically turning it back over to the States and wealthy Republicans will travel to Blue States to get the very abortions they are against. That will mean it will be a time of reckoning in Red States regarding their Republican representatives. Some Red State politicians to move back towards the center because a lot of people are going to be pissed. You might not see Democrats winning elections anytime soon, but you might end up with moderate Republicans again. Maybe... probably not. But I am just spit-balling here.

People won't just excuse the behavior, they will privately envy people like Gaetz trafficking underage girls for both conception and abortion. Why? Because they want to do that too. Nothing will change because people preach whatever it takes to conform. It's about fitting in and being part of the tribe... It isn't about what is right.

If there is one thing I've realized about people who argue about idealistic bs, it is that they believe what they are rambling in the abstract. But they don't seem to think it should change their own behavior. Being human and messing up is ok if you ask for forgiveness. Hypocritically taking advantage of a broken system is fine as long as "they" (not "me") follow the rules. And the lack of immediate smiting reinforces the belief. It doesn't stop at politics. This is just how people live.
 


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