US Political Discussion: Biden/Harris Edition (Rules in OP)

[bostjan]

So, while I know Trump is the focus of the spectacle, I think that Cassidy's testimony carries far more actionable implications for MTG, Gaetz, and other representatives. If they actively sought out pardons for things they were planning to do, that is very strong evidence for mia culpa. They knew what they were doing was illegal, and intended to do it if and only if they were able to skate away from legal consequences.

They conspired to willfully break 18 US Code SS 595, which would warrant a trial. If found guilty, they should be barred from ever holding public office for life.

Of course, we all know that there are enough corrupt politicians in office that they'd figure out a way to weasel out of it. With everything being so politicized, Republican senators would be highly unlikely to vote to convict. However, if the public ever comes to their senses, it could lead to some transparency about where the corruption lives, and how to rid both houses of congress of this cancer simply by voting.

Heck, if it could be done swiftly, it might even be used as a political tool by the left to fire up their voting base right before the mid-terms to reduce the effect of the tradition of mid-term elections swinging to the right. That should incentivize a call to action. But only if the left actually gave two shits about anything.

 

[nightflameauto]

Heck, if it could be done swiftly, it might even be used as a political tool by the left to fire up their voting base right before the mid-terms to reduce the effect of the tradition of mid-term elections swinging to the right. That should incentivize a call to action. But only if the left actually gave two shits about anything.

If there's anything that history has shown us over the past few decades, it's that Democrats know PRECISELY how to squander any advantage. They will absolutely fail to make use of any information gained via these hearings during the election cycle.

 

[wankerness]

January 6 is also about at the end of issues that any voters care about. They need to do something about inflation, housing/homelessness, and rising crime rates or there's going to be a complete republican blowout the next two elections even without them having to put their thumb on the scale.

In IL, I like how the super-wacko the stupid democrats funded against the more reasonable republican candidate for governor won the primary, and is now polling higher than the democratic candidate. Kind of what they did with Trump - idiotically thinking that the more sane candidate would be harder competition for them. If that guy gets in, say goodbye to IL being a reproductive health oasis in the midwest.

 

[Adieu]

Yeah, we DO need a housing market CRASH asap

 

[Randy]

January 6 is also about at the end of issues that any voters care about. They need to do something about inflation, housing/homelessness, and rising crime rates or there's going to be a complete republican blowout the next two elections even without them having to put their thumb on the scale.

This "elect a Democrat to save the world... again" thing has worn out it's welcome. Pitch people on how you're gonna make their life better.

 

[bostjan]

January 6 is also about at the end of issues that any voters care about. They need to do something about inflation, housing/homelessness, and rising crime rates or there's going to be a complete republican blowout the next two elections even without them having to put their thumb on the scale.

In IL, I like how the super-wacko the stupid democrats funded against the more reasonable republican candidate for governor won the primary, and is now polling higher than the democratic candidate. Kind of what they did with Trump - idiotically thinking that the more sane candidate would be harder competition for them. If that guy gets in, say goodbye to IL being a reproductive health oasis in the midwest.

75% of Illinois residents live in the greater Chicago area. That's why it's so difficult for Republicans there, generally. Only about 10% of people in Wisconsin live in Milwaukee.

What Democrats should have realized by now is that they are their own worst enemies. Even republican voters don't vote for republican candidates because of their platforms or character. They vote against what the democrats stand for - things like women's rights or same-sex marriage, or stricter gun control, or whatever. And it works well for them.

But the worst part of all of this is the greater implication about the integrity of our elections. Trump most likely influenced the 2016 election. Investigators couldn't prove it because he obstructed the investigation. AND GOT AWAY WITH OBSTRUCTING THE INVESTIGATION. In a just world, that shit wouldn't have flew. Then he was impeached for extorting influence over the 2020 election well before it took place, AND GOT AWAY WITH IT in spite of damning evidence. Then he was impeached AGAIN for trying to influence the 2020 election after the fact BY FORCE - AND GOT AWAY WITH IT YET AGAIN! Now this Jan 6th hearing is only telling us what we already know, and the right is mostly just like "yeah, we already knew this, so what?" And that's not a good point at all, but it'll undoubtedly be enough to make none of this matter.

Meanwhile, though, we have taken the wool off from our eyes and it's all public record that the election process here is fucked. Trump didn't just have his thumb on the scale, he had his entire weight on it, plus he had russian hackers try to compromise the scale's firmware, and then tried to threaten the cashier, and when that didn't work, sent an angry mob to the corporate office for good measure.

 

[wankerness]

This "elect a Democrat to save the world... again" thing has worn out it's welcome. Pitch people on how you're gonna make their life better.

Seriously. And I fucking hate this empty social justice bullshit they constantly are crowing on about. They're very obviously making these empty performative gestures about supporting trans rights (a TINY, TINY, TINY percentage of the population) or loudly using terms that everyone hates like Latinx in place of doing anything that actually helps anyone. And the emphasis on that stuff is driving away a lot of formerly solid democratic bases (ex, latino voters) and just making them poll even lower. They need a radically blue-collar tough guy that is actually about action on major issues that people care about that has no time for the tiny social justice wedge issues that mainly only hyper-liberal dimwits on twitter who live in NYC or SF and falsely believe they represent a sizable demographic of the country care about. Like, yes, rights for all people are important, but inclusivity officers and all that stuff that they've been pushing so hard the last few years is a gigantic waste of administrative money and basically a scam industry. Improve peoples' lives, focus on issues that regular people care about, and you should easily be able to overcome the Republican platform of "we hate everything that democrats do even if we agreed with it before they proposed it, and have no coherent platform of our own other than turning the US into a fascist christian state that removes all social nets and gives all money straight back to the rich."

Bernie Sanders was the right kind of politician but the wrong age.

 

[Randy]

Seriously. And I fucking hate this empty social justice bullshit they constantly are crowing on about.

Bernie Sanders was the right kind of politician but the wrong age.

Had a thought about this last night. I've been duking it out with Blue Dog establishment Democratic apologists lately, and the thing that's missing is that Progressives also believe in LGBTQ+ and minority rights but it's assumed rather than the "Big D" approach of patting themselves about it every chance they get while actively making everyone's lives worse (or standing idly by while they get worse).

This "shut up and vote Democrat" stuff gave us the bottom of the barrel leadership we have now that are fighting for their survival because they don't look like they can do anything. Desperation is not very becoming, and it doesn't win you the independents.

 

[ArtDecade]

Man, I don't like vast swaths of Democrats, but until the Republican Party issues marching orders for the Populists/Trumpers/Fascists we aren't going to have much of a political discourse.

 

[Glades]

Man, I don't like vast swaths of Democrats, but until the Republican Party issues marching orders for the Populists/Trumpers/Fascists we aren't going to have much of a political discourse.

Democrats used to be reasonable during the Obama years. But it seems Trump triggered a knee-jerk reaction in the party, and the democrats with the loudest voices are usually waayyyyy on the left. They make classical liberals like Bill Maher and Joe Rogan look like righ-wingers.

 

[Randy]

Man, I don't like vast swaths of Democrats, but until the Republican Party issues marching orders for the Populists/Trumpers/Fascists we aren't going to have much of a political discourse.

That's kind of the issue. There are vast swaths of normies that are not beholden to either party and if they're not impressed with either candidate then they're going to stay home. Or vote for whoever based on whatever weird bullshit thing that crosses their mind that day. That's a problem especially when it comes the level of gerrymandering the SCOTUS has enabled.

Dems have to win and win big if they're combat Fascist/Trumpists, and again, "vote Democrat to save the world" doesn't always work.

 

[MFB]

Democrats used to be reasonable during the Obama years. But it seems Trump triggered a knee-jerk reaction in the party, and the democrats with the loudest voices are usually waayyyyy on the left. They make classical liberals like Bill Maher and Joe Rogan look like righ-wingers.

Clearly you haven't listened to Rogan in a while since he's gone to the other side of the spectrum and is just insufferable now, current Joe Rogan would hate old Joe Rogan.

Also, compared to the rest of the world, our "leftist" politics are middle-center so I don't think you realize what 'far left' would actually look like.

And maybe we're "unreasonable" (I use it in quotes because again, compared to the rest of the world politically we're in the stone age) because the right seem hell bent on removing the very things that the country was founded on and legitimately written as the first fucking amendment such as not enacting laws based on religion/separation of church and state so we can throttle ourselves into their Christian Dictatorship they seem so desperate for. Didn't their slogan used to be the "party of values" which is apparently now praising sexism, racism, isolationism, etc? I wish the south had seceded so that all the bible-belts could just emigrate there (but of course that'd make them immigrants, and they'd be the problem somewhere else), but unfortunately we're still stuck with y'all.

 

[Mathemagician]

Trump already came out and said it was all fabricated and false. J6 is all a show, like russia-gate, the impeachment and all the other clown shows trying to derail the goat.

Wow he came out and absolved himself? Imagine that.

Meanwhile Hillary testified in front of congress for hours.

Democrats used to be reasonable during the Obama years. But it seems Trump triggered a knee-jerk reaction in the party, and the democrats with the loudest voices are usually waayyyyy on the left. They make classical liberals like Bill Maher and Joe Rogan look like righ-wingers.

Well given that Joe Biden is center right. Then Joe Rogan and Bill Maher are both right at a minimum.

The issue is that the Fox > OANN crowd is so far right they think they’re the “center”.

Just Like your denial of women’s right to access to medicine is an accepted fringe-right religious cult belief. But it feels “normal” to you.

 

[ArtDecade]

Joe Rogan, the classical liberal.

 

[Glades]

How is he not? Because he is pro-2A? Being anti-constitution, anti-bill of rights, anti-America is not a concept of traditional liberals. All Americans, left and right, used to see eye to eye on these. It’s only modern leftists (socialists, nazis, fascists, communists) that preach these concepts.

He is pro-abortion, pro-gay rights, pro-drug. How is he not a classical liberal again?

 

[bostjan]

Also, compared to the rest of the world, our "leftist" politics are middle-center so I don't think you realize what 'far left' would actually look like.

I'm not sure where that conjecture originated, but I feel like it's been misquoted and also possibly become outdated.

I believe that the older version of the tidbit is stating that, compared to other "developed" countries, the USA is more conservative than liberal.

But there are a lot of places in "the world" that are very conservative. Look at Indonesia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Thailand, etc. I'm sure that the USA is more liberal than most of Africa and even most of Asia. Even places that are classical on the left are full of weird conservative laws. How are LGB people treated in communist countries, let alone TQ+? And even in certain parts western Europe, things are not always hunky-dory when it comes to socially liberal ideas. How liberal is Japan?

Personally, I don't buy it. The US is conservative compared to more liberal places, but compared to the rest of the G20 countries, is maybe bouncing back and forth between just left and just right of center. The reason why it seems worse is because the USA, at one point, was one of the most liberal places, and it's been creeping more and more conservative, starting maybe with Nixon and the counter-counter culture thing and culminating with Trump. But as awful of a president as Trump was, the effects he had on the rest of the federal government will be a slow burn, as we now have his crazed followers in the House of Representatives and his justices fully entrenched into the SCotUS.

And if this Jan 6th thing leads to a nothingburger of consequences for any of those rep's, it'll continue going that direction. But I don't even know if it's going to be so much a swing toward the "classical" right wing as much as it'll be a swing toward more nonsense and open lawlessness from within the government.

 

[nightflameauto]

That's kind of the issue. There are vast swaths of normies that are not beholden to either party and if they're not impressed with either candidate then they're going to stay home. Or vote for whoever based on whatever weird bullshit thing that crosses their mind that day. That's a problem especially when it comes the level of gerrymandering the SCOTUS has enabled.

Dems have to win and win big if they're combat Fascist/Trumpists, and again, "vote Democrat to save the world" doesn't always work.

"Vote Democrat to save the world" might work, if we had any indication that the Democrats would try to save the world. Instead we have a choice between watching the Republicans continue to destroy the world actively, or watching the Democrats get power and sit on their thumbs while the world continues to be destroyed.

I'm beginning to understand the people that said they voted for Trump because they feel like they're watching a giant toilet every time the election cycle comes up, and they'd like somebody to finish flushing it. Maybe destroying the world is the only way out of this quagmire of nothing?

Not saying I'll go Republican anytime soon, but the Democrats need to give me something to vote *FOR* rather than against, or I'm gonna have a hard time thinking my trashed votes on the national level matter. Which they don't, since this state will bleed red until it kills itself.

 

[bostjan]

How is he not? Because he is pro-2A? Being anti-constitution, anti-bill of rights, anti-America is not a concept of traditional liberals. All Americans, left and right, used to see eye to eye on these. It’s only modern leftists (socialists, nazis, fascists, communists) that preach these concepts.

He is pro-abortion, pro-gay rights, pro-drug. How is he not a classical liberal again?

He's a libertarian. He voted for Gary Johnson and then for Jo Jorgensen. That's not republican nor democratic leaning. As far as left/right, that's a mixed bag, dependent on the issue.

Not sure why this is confusing for everyone in this thread. There are tons of people who support third party politics.

 

[jco5055]

How is he not? Because he is pro-2A? Being anti-constitution, anti-bill of rights, anti-America is not a concept of traditional liberals. All Americans, left and right, used to see eye to eye on these. It’s only modern leftists (socialists, nazis, fascists, communists) that preach these concepts.

He is pro-abortion, pro-gay rights, pro-drug. How is he not a classical liberal again?

Imagine thinking nazis and fascists are left wing

Honestly in general, my opinion (and only mine as a kind of disclaimer) is this idea of "where's the sensible middle that doesn't like either party" is shit. Yes the Republican party is worse than Democrats, but even I'll call them "mainstream" Democrats like Biden/Hillary/basically everyone not named Bernie Sanders who is elected higher than like small town mayor is muuuuch more similar to Republicans than any leftists.

Especially in regards to non-identity issues, stuff like "inflation and the economy sucks right now and the Democrats and Republicans don't have solutions, I'm going middle" is an incorrect view, the issue is both of them aren't going left enough.

I mean FDR was on paper the most left president we ever had and look how America post WWII until like Reagan definitely, LBJ arguably was the closest it's ever been to a true "American Dream". And the only reason the New Deal was even passed was because actual socialists had a much stronger presences/could have actually threatened to have a large place at the table in National and State politics that the New Deal was just the actual kind of "meet in the middle" I can get behind.

 

[bostjan]

"Vote Democrat to save the world" might work, if we had any indication that the Democrats would try to save the world. Instead we have a choice between watching the Republicans continue to destroy the world actively, or watching the Democrats get power and sit on their thumbs while the world continues to be destroyed.

I'm beginning to understand the people that said they voted for Trump because they feel like they're watching a giant toilet every time the election cycle comes up, and they'd like somebody to finish flushing it. Maybe destroying the world is the only way out of this quagmire of nothing?

Not saying I'll go Republican anytime soon, but the Democrats need to give me something to vote *FOR* rather than against, or I'm gonna have a hard time thinking my trashed votes on the national level matter. Which they don't, since this state will bleed red until it kills itself.

Why though? It still makes no sense, logically. "Are you sick of voting for the corrupt politician who bends to the will of the megalomaniac business interests? Instead vote for the megalomaniac business interests directly." That's like trying to dodge a bullet by shooting yourself in the head before it hits you.

The democrats are stupid, but the republican are also stupid. The whole government is stupid. The only way to fix this is to flush them all down the toilet at this point.