US Political Discussion: Biden/Harris Edition (Rules in OP)

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by mongey, Mar 2, 2016.

  1. eaeolian

    eaeolian Pictures of guitars I don't even own anymore! Super Moderator

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  2. ArtDecade

    ArtDecade John Bohlinger's Dank Stash

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    Looks like the suicide bombers finally made it to the airport gates in Kabul. This is going from horrible to horrifying.
     
  3. philkilla

    philkilla Baritone Maniac Contributor

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  4. nightflameauto

    nightflameauto SS.org Regular

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    Wow. This whole Afghanistan situation was going to be a mess no matter what, but holy ever loving crap we didn't have to go out of our way to make it worse. So many missteps.
     
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  5. philkilla

    philkilla Baritone Maniac Contributor

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    Yes.

    No hacks on them finally pulling the plug to get everyone out....but fuck me learn to listen to advisor's in regards to planning and execution.
     
  6. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Biden is denying knowledge of this. If someone in his administration did it, then that would be a pretty serious controversey. I know there are some pretty inept people in government, but that level of stupidity (maybe malice) needs to be punished. The article says "congressional" officials, though. I wonder if we will find out who? That seems like none of congress's authority either way.
     
  7. High Plains Drifter

    High Plains Drifter ... drifting...

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    I don't hate on Biden... Thank god that trump is gone. But I don't buy it. I think that he knew and simply wasn't prepared to act. I believe that he had no comprehensive game plan to deal with all of this. I don't think that he took threats seriously and instead just wanted to put all the effort behind an attempt to get everyone out by the Aug 31st deadline. Maybe he was getting an overabundance of conflicting info from his intel/ advisors but regardless, I think he simply failed on this one.
     
  8. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2021
  9. IwantTacos

    IwantTacos SS.org Regular

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    all he had to do was forgive student loan debt.
     
  10. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Yeah, this is setting off warning bells here too - I'd love to see some additional confirmation.

    This, without some sort of going-forward fix to address the increasingly unaffordable cost of college education, is a waste of time and money, and would just put us back in the same situation we're in today in another ten years. It's not nearly as easy as waiving a magic wand. Don't get me wrong, if we can address long-term affordability, I think the next step IS to look at some sort of debt forgiveness, as student debt is absolutely fucking up the household formation rate and impinging first-time homebuyers.... but we gotta fix the cart, before we can worry about whether it goes before or after the horse.
     
  11. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    So, according to the initial report, the list was given to the Talban by three people consisting of congressmen and military officials. On August 24th, Peter Meijer [R - MI] and Seth Moulton [D - MA] flew to Afghanistan, upsetting the DoD and Congress. Both of them are veterans. Meijer served in the Army and fought in Iraq. Moulton was a decorated officer in the Marines. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but Moulton was the guy who received donations from republican party PAC's during one of the election cycles a few years ago, despite being a democrat.

    I don't think these guys would have done this specifically to sabotage the efforts by the military to withdraw, but, could there be a chance that they were involved out of negligence or simply an abysmal lack of logic? Could it have been another congressperson instead of them? I know it's circumstantial, but at this point, it'd be a pretty damned weird coincidence if neither of these two were involved in the list given to the taliban.

    If it does turn out to be them, can they be removed for incompetence?
     
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  12. Randy

    Randy ✝✝✝ Super Moderator

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    If it's them, it should go much further than that.
     
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  13. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    It's more complicated than that - Moulton's a local guy, young, but well liked, and while he ran as an unabashed liberal but on his military record, and used that in part to launch attacks on Trump as a draft dodger, he DID get a surprising amount of bipartisan support. I knew some Republicans who supported him, and I think a lot of it was just local - people knew him and his family, and figured even if he was a liberal, he was a young man with his head screwed on straight and was the kind of guy they wanted in Congress regardless of party.

    He emerged as a possible challenger to Pelosi but IIRC his opposition was more from the left, that we needed younger, fresher faced leadership. And he's become a Biden critic, based on his stated motivations for this trip, but I don't have a great handle on why exactly yet. Definitely pro-military and feeling like Biden is selling out the armed forces here (I disagree), but I don't know if it goes beyond that.

    But, if Moulton and Meijer were the two who on their own volition gave the Taliban a list of Americans and Afhghans with green cards to expedite the withdrawal, however good their intentions may have been, that's a pretty drastic step and if they went rogue in doing so, yeah, there should be consequences.

    Complicating matters, the suicide bombings yesterday WEREN'T carried out by the Taliban - they were carried out by a group called ISIS-Khorasan, representing ISIS's Afghan and Pakistan forces, who considers both the US (for obvious reasons) AND the Taliban (for selling out by negotiating to a withdrawal with the US) enemies. They're basically trying to throw gasoline on a shouldering fire here, and counting - probably correctly - on the average US citizen not being able to tell the difference between one suicide bomber and the next, and worsening the public response to this pull out.

    It's an EXTREMELY complicated picture.
     
  14. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    I agree to the point that I will be extremely disappointed in our government when this inevitably gets swept under the rug and forgotten after the next big news story.

    Well, sure, anything is if it's dug into enough. But it isn't in this case. Nobody was suggesting that the list given to the Taliban had anything to do with the attacks at the airport yesterday, and I'm not convinced that ISIS even could operate in Afghanistan without at least some Taliban support anyway. The S in ISIS stands for Syria, right? And the distance from Kabul to Damascus is like the distance from Los Angeles to Panama City (Panama, not the one in Florida), so it's not like there's any geographical proximity.

    But drawing back to a high level:
    1. Somebody, reported to be one or two congressmen and one or two top ranking military officials, gave the Taliban a list of names of Americans citizens and green card holders in Afghanistan.
    2. The media is now heavily criticizing Biden for the above report.
    3. Those two congressmen, who just happen to be highly critical of Biden, just happened to have flown to Afghanistan, just before the list was handed over.
    4. There are no other US congressmen in Afghanistan this week on record.

    Now, I'm no Chief Inspector Clouseau, but I think I can sort of piece things together here... I mean, if you read in the paper, two days after I posted about how I really needed money, that there were reports of someone named Bostjan going around robbing banks in Vermont with a microtonal guitar and a squawking parrot on his shoulder... wouldn't you suspect...
     
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  15. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    I think all of this is plausible. I DO just want to clarify that my two comments above were mostly unrelated - that I provided some background on why Moulton was getting donations from Republicans and why I didn't think it was because he was some sort of closet GOP/RINO. And then, separately, I just wanted to make the point that what's going on in Kabul right now is (at least) a three party conflict, and not two.

    EDIT - rereading that, the shifting of gears before the final paragraph was probably a lot clearer to me, than it would be to anyone reading it. :lol:
     
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  16. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Would a closet RINO be a DINO?

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    I ALMOST went there. :lol:

    US Intelligence assessment released today, and let's all note that anything on a Friday afternoon they're hoping will get buried, tha basically was inconclusive and said it's going to stay that way as long as China continues to stonewall the inquiry. Four elements of the community with a low level of confidence supported the infected animal transmission theory, one with moderate confidence the lab leak theory. No further information I've seen, but even a "moderate" level of confidence in intelligence speak is still basically just slightly more likely than not.

    They do assess that SARS-Cov-2 was not a biological weapon, and - to be fair, with a low level of confidence - all assess that it was not genetically engineered.
     
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  18. Andromalia

    Andromalia Pardon my french

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    Or you work in Customer Service.
     
  19. nightflameauto

    nightflameauto SS.org Regular

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    While I know this isn't a shocking revelation, the Republicans are twisting themselves into knots over the attack in Afghanistan. I heard one speech, by one individual, where he alternated between saying Biden should leave office after negotiating with the Taliban, then in the very next sentence praised Trump for negotiating with the Taliban. If they could organize themselves and stay on message, they'd be a scary powerful force right now. Luckily they're a loose collection of fools and double-speaking morons so all we get is "Democrat = debbil, Republican, no matter how repugnant = angel, even for the same actions."

    There is a murmur of invoking the 25th. Sorry dumbasses. You wouldn't invoke the 25th for any one of the hundreds of Trump blunders. Pretty sure even you're ardent followers would raise an eyebrow at trying to invoke the 25th with your only line of reasoning being, "someone not in our force attacked our people." Might need just a teeny bit more than that to swing even Manchin and Sinema to your side on this one.
     
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  20. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    There's no danger of that, though - one of the side-effects of your official platform being "we're against whatever the Democrats are for," is that it makes it awfully hard to remain internally consistent. :lol:

    Interestingly, the Taliban is reportedly hoping to maintain civil relations, and potentially have diplomatic recognition, from the US, now that we're out. I'm not sure what to make of that, but the picture of ISIS-K launching suicide attacks targeting both the US AND the Taliban, the former for being white devils, the latter for selling out Islam, and a Taliban looking to engage diplomatically, is, well... unexpected. I'm not sure what to make of it.
     

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