US Political Discussion: Biden/Harris Edition (Rules in OP)

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by mongey, Mar 2, 2016.

  1. JSanta

    JSanta SS.org Regular

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    The President needs to be reminded of this very fact. Though, I'd make the argument that upholding the Constitution and protecting our civilian population are pretty much the same thing. When the military is politicized in the way that it has been, it creates a very dangerous state of existence where people are repressed in the name of whatever leadership decides is good law and order.

    As Soldiers, we were taught to have ultimate respect for the citizens and residents of the country that pay for our existence. We are not taught that we are above or better, but serve as the foundation on which freedom can continue to exist.
     
  2. ThePIGI King

    ThePIGI King Ibanez Enthusiast

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    Depends on whether or not the civilians are doing something for or against the Constitution as well.

    I agree with doing whatever is necessary to end the rioting. So many people hurt and killed it's insane. Some Las Vegas cop just got shot in the back of the head for subduing a rioter. If MPs and 11bang bangs going to help control the situation is what it takes then do it. Every infantryman I know would love to go do that.
     
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  3. tedtan

    tedtan SS.org Regular

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    Abraham Lincoln's famous words, spoken at his Gettysburg address, state that the federal government of the USA is a "government of the people, by the people, FOR the people", which pretty much sums this up. No, the military does not directly report to you and I, but as part of the executive branch of the US federal government, the military exists for and serves the people of the USA.
     
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  4. StevenC

    StevenC Javier Strat 8 2022

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    Man, some of this stuff is going to age like milk the next time this forum has a 2nd Amendment argument.
     
  5. fantom

    fantom Misses his 6 strings

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    This. I was force fed the right wing agenda until I was in high school. I have been called a conservative and old-fashioned at work more times than I want to count (including during the 2018 election). As a kid and teenager, when you see your politics contradict your religious teachings and authority figures punish you for asking why that is ok, you start to think for yourself.

    My or anyone else's political preferences do not change that Trump and McConnell are burning this country and our society to the ground.
     
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  6. fantom

    fantom Misses his 6 strings

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    When education is the same as daycare...
    So I was lazy typing that, but I thought places like former USSR (socialist) and China (communist) censored their news about the same way. I could be wrong.
     
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  7. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    Kill thousands of Americans or install greater accountability for those given authority?

    I know which one I'd rather have.
     
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  8. fantom

    fantom Misses his 6 strings

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    I agree that Floyd is a catalyst for people's frustration boiling over. But I would also argue that the pandemic is a catalyst and people were upset at this administration long before the pandemic reached US soil.

    LOL the states were left to fend for themselves while Trump pretended nothing was wrong. He cannot take credit for governors acting with no federal assistance to help their people. Many governors, including Republicans, were on record saying the federal government was not helping. Not to mention the whistleblower...
     
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  9. JSanta

    JSanta SS.org Regular

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    11B here bud, and I would take zero pleasure in hurting people unnecessarily. You've highlighted a key problem with our military - that too many people put on the uniform and take pleasure in the taking of lives or the use of force. The use of lethal military force is not going to solve this problem. If that was the case, the wars around the world would subside quickly. An ideology worth fighting for, our democracy and equal protection under the law, are worth taking a stand against those that do not protect those interests. If the answer to rioting is always military force, we are much less free than led to believe. The uniform is not meant as a tactic to intimidate, and should not be viewed as such.

    How many more people have to have their own constitutional rights stripped away before these problems are fundamentally addressed? Where is George Floyd's due process? How about all of the others killed or abused by police? Do their rights not matter?

    I just can't agree with your line of thinking on this one. I don't like the rioting, but I get it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
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  10. possumkiller

    possumkiller Square Dance Caller

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    Exactly why I left the army. Too many sick sadistic white supremacist nazi wannabe pieces of shit become infantrymen for the sole purpose of getting a chance to murder people. The same shit bag types are also drawn to becoming police officers apparently. trump loves these guys that's why he personally intervened in a military trial and pardoned a war criminal.
     
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  11. GoldDragon

    GoldDragon SS.org Regular

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    Rioters are destroying people's businesses, physically attacking people. IMO, using the military to protect citizens and their property is necessary.

    Its not political. I say that 100% of the time when rioting gets this bad, the sitting president will mobilize the military.
     
  12. possumkiller

    possumkiller Square Dance Caller

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    There is a difference between mobilizing the military and threatening to use the military to kill civilians.

    The military is usually mobilized in national emergencies.
     
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  13. fantom

    fantom Misses his 6 strings

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    Organizing the national guard and backup to local police is completely normal. Threatening to have the military shoot protestors on Twitter is not. See the difference?

    The role of the police is to protect and *serve*. The military is usually referred to as *service members*. The point is that they are doing what is in the best interest of the people, not the government. The first amendment allows peaceful protests....

    This. A president threatening violence and using police to escalate a peaceful situation for a photo op... What the hell

    Thank you for saying this.

    This. Not to mention threatening to shoot protestors and then throwing a hissy fit when Twitter calls you out on it.

    Agreed. 2nd amendment defendents love to use the government using military and unnecessary force as a reason to justify owning assault rifles and using deadly force to "protect themselves". The only thing different right now is that they agree with the government force since they aren't on the receiving end of it.
     
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  14. sleewell

    sleewell SS.org Regular

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    it also should be noted that in 1992 the gov of CA asked for help from the feds. I don't think any state is currently asking trump to send in the military.
     
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  15. ThePIGI King

    ThePIGI King Ibanez Enthusiast

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    Because tear gas and non-lethal rounds being shot is murdering people? Helping police to maintain peace is murder? If you and @JSanta left 11B because you felt like it was sadists and nazis then that's fine, but making the assumption that anybody supporting the military helping contain a nationwide issue is in support of murder then you've both lost your minds.

    Killing civilians won't help, but detaining them and showing that we won't just let them riot will. Peaceful protests are fine. But the crap that's going down is not.
     
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  16. possumkiller

    possumkiller Square Dance Caller

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    Not only that. The president has no authority to send US Army (regular Army not national guard) into states without their asking because it violates the state's rights.
     
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  17. possumkiller

    possumkiller Square Dance Caller

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    It's not for you because you don't care about what caused it.

    I said already there is a difference between mobilizing the military and threatening to use them to kill civilians so I really don't know what you're on about. Of course there's no problem with the national guard pulling guard on businesses to deter anarchists from trying to burn them down or looters from stealing everything. There is no problem until they start killing people which is how this shit started to begin with. Trying to stop people from protesting brutality and abuse of authority by using brutality and abuse of authority is idiotic and only going to make people riot and protest more.
     
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  18. GoldDragon

    GoldDragon SS.org Regular

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    I googled and I found what you might be talking about.

    “I can’t stand back & watch this happen to a great American City, Minneapolis. A total lack of leadership. Either the very weak Radical Left Mayor, Jacob Frey, get his act together and bring the City under control, or I will send in the National Guard & get the job done right,” Trump tweeted minutes before 1 a.m.

    In the second part of his message, Trump wrote: “These THUGS are dishonoring the memory of George Floyd, and I won’t let that happen. Just spoke to Governor Tim Walz and told him that the Military is with him all the way. Any difficulty and we will assume control but, when the looting starts, the shooting starts. Thank you!”


    He did not threaten to kill anyone.

    This is the same thing the media did when Trump said, "You should ask China about the emails".

    He was being sarcastic, but the media took it literally to mean that Trump had some knowledge of who hacked DNC/Hillary and conflated that to mean he was colluding with them.

    This is drawing the worst possible conclusion from what was written.

    Is a man not allowed to express his anger at liberal governors who allowed things to get out of control? Is he not allowed to express what will happen if they don't fix things?

    You dislike his style, but the message is the same. And justified.
     
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  19. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    It is naive to think escalation of force will result in anything but more dead civilians, law enforcement, and military, not to mention property and collateral damage.

    People are in the streets, already putting their lives at risk, because they're angry and feel there is no other way. Bringing out the big guns is only going to agitate and reinforce those feelings, and potentially galvanize further protesters to the cause.
     
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  20. Randy

    Randy ✝✝✝ Super Moderator

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    So nothing then? You're admitting Trump proposed doing nothing?
     
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