US Political Discussion: Biden/Harris Edition (Rules in OP)

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by mongey, Mar 2, 2016.

  1. GoldDragon

    GoldDragon SS.org Regular

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  2. fantom

    fantom Misses his 6 strings

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    I don't read Huffington Post, but can you present some actual evidence that they aren't neutral?
     
  3. sleewell

    sleewell SS.org Regular

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    direct quotes from gregg popovich

    “It’s unbelievable. If Trump had a brain, even if it was 99 percent cynical, he would come out and say something to unify people. But he doesn’t care about bringing people together. Even now. That’s how deranged he is. It’s all about him. It’s all about what benefits him personally. It’s never about the greater good. And that’s all he’s ever been.”

    “It’s so clear what needs to be done. We need a president to come out and say simply that ‘Black Lives Matter.’ Just say those three words. But he won’t and he can’t. He can’t because it’s more important to him to mollify the small group of followers who validate his insanity. But it’s more than just Trump. The system has to change. I’ll do whatever I can do to help because that’s what leaders do. But he can’t do anything to put us on a positive path because he’s not a leader.

    “It’s like what Lindsay Graham and Ted Cruz used to say when they had the courage to say it: He’s unfit. But they have chosen instead to be invisible and obsequious in the face of this carnage. In the end what we have is a fool in place of a president, while the person who really runs the country, Senator Mitch McConnell, destroys the United States for generations to come. McConnell has destroyed and degraded our judicial system. He has tried to destroy heath care. He’s destroyed the environment. He’s the master and Trump’s the stooge, and what’s funny is that Trump doesn’t even know it. Trump’s always wanted to be part of the in-group, but McConnell is an in-group of one and Trump plays the fool.

    “He’s not just divisive. He’s a destroyer. To be in his presence makes you die. He will eat you alive for his own purposes. I’m appalled that we have a leader who can’t say ‘Black Lives Matter.’ That’s why he hides in the White House basement. He is a coward. He creates a situation and runs away like a grade-schooler. Actually, I think it’s best to ignore him. There is nothing he can do to make this better because of who he is: a deranged idiot.”
     
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  4. Necris

    Necris Bonitis.

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    The idea that the words "Black Lives Matter" coming from *any* member of Trump's administration past or present would not be immediately recognized wholly empty and meant solely to placate is frankly insulting. The idea that all these people want or need is a slogan parroted back to them is fucking ridiculous.
     
  5. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    I'm a white left-leaning male, under 45 years old, living near and working in San Francisco. And even I tihnk they aren't neutral. Perhaps their factual reporting may be, but their editorial/opinion content (which is a massive chunk of their 'reporting') certainly is not.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
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  6. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    No they wouldn't, they would print facts.

    Neutrality doesn't mean all opinions get equal attention. It means reality.

    If some doofus does 0 good things they should say that and not look for fluff stories about how he said please and thank you to a servant one time.
     
  7. Alexa run my life

    Alexa run my life SS.org Regular

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    Trump would win the election in a huge landslide If he came out and told the left what they wanted to hear, it wouldn't even be close. All he has to do is give leftists that tingly dopamine rush that they're searching for, by coming out and saying BLM, then he's got 2020 in the bag.
     
  8. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    Also this. See Wall Street Journal also in the reliable/neutral area despite being right leaning in editorials.
     
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  9. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    Please, please put in some effort.
     
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  10. tedtan

    tedtan SS.org Regular

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    He would have to have done something worthy of compliment before receiving one. And at this point, I can't think of a positive thing he's done. I can find something positive in Reagan's presidency, GHWB's presidency, GWB's presidency, but not Trump's. So where would those compliments come from, just ass kissing?
     
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  11. tedtan

    tedtan SS.org Regular

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    This is the thing: reporting and editorializing are not the same thing. And most news sources do have a bias one way or the other in their editorial content. It's the fact based reporting that ends up being skewed right on Fox/Breitbart/etc. vs neutral in other "MSM" sources.
     
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  12. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    That may be, but any outlet actually trying to be perceived as "neutral" wouldn't add an editorial note like this, I don't believe:
    "From January 2016 through November 2016, the Huffington Post included an editor’s note on the bottom of all articles relating to Republican Presidential candidate Donald Trump, attacking him. The note read: “Donald Trump regularly incites political violence and is a serial liar, rampant xenophobe, racist, misogynist and birther who has repeatedly pledged to ban all Muslims — 1.6 billion members of an entire religion — from entering the U.S.”

    An example of one of those articles:
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-fox-news-eye-for-an-eye_n_56a9790fe4b0016489225a54
     
  13. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    I'm sorry, but SteveC is spot-on here.
    If the coverage of Trump's presidency is predominately negative, then there are two distinct possibilities:
    1) The coverage is extremely biased, and Trump is doing at least an average-or-better job as a president.
    2) The coverage is actually pretty fair, and Trump is doing such a bad job of it that there's little good to write.

    Now, as I write this, sheltering in place in my house in the middle of a global pandemic, during a time when roughly one in five Americans are out of work for the first time since the Great Depression, during an interlude in rounds of retaliaory tariffs in a trade war with China that appears to be heating back up, while they're clearing the downtown of the city I live in of the burned wreckage of cop cars after a protest over how American police keep killing unarmed black men, and Trump is busy tweeting about how much he approves of someone saying the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat, praising Henry Ford's "pure bloodline, and railing at mayors and governors for not being "strong" enough to order the National Guard to order fire on protestors - who, until the cops tried to break things up last night, were actually by and large a peaceful group here in Boston, at least - I think I can hazard a guess over which scenario is more likely.

    But you never know. Maybe Trump has been helping a whole bunch of little old grannys cross the street and wrapping up a cure for cancer when no one was looking and those dastardly media moguls just haven't reported on it.
     
  14. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    I'm confused. Which part of that is an editorial opinion?
     
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  15. Alexa run my life

    Alexa run my life SS.org Regular

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    And likewise, if he does do some good things, don't just focus on soundbytes that were said years ago.
     
  16. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    Yeah, let's focus on the violence he incites this week, this week. Leave last week's aggravations in the past, and next week's for the future.
     
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  17. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    He's said enough mind-bendingly idiotic shit in the past week to keep the press busy for months. Thanks for playing.
     
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  18. JoshuaVonFlash

    JoshuaVonFlash SSBRO.org regular

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    I feel like Consent decrees while effective, are only as effective as people in charge want them to be. If higher ups aren't holding their own officers accountable then who's holding them accountable for ignoring the problem? Sure, they themselves could be rid of but only if someone higher than them disapproves.

    As for the rights of trans folks, it seems like a lot of them are not set in stone the way say, discrimination based on race is. But it's not complete legal protection against discrimination, for example: "Employers with 15 or more employees are prohibited by Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act from discriminating on the basis of sex."

    Why 15? How was that even decided on? Why not just make illegal to discriminate against them even if you just have one trans employee? It's a half measure. Additionally, a lot of these protections are still being mulled over by SCOTUS, so their legal basis is still up in the air. Even if Obama could wave a magic wand and instill those protections, he'd still be working in the confines of our legal system that thinks human rights are something to be decided upon not by the people themselves but by a few elderly folks, that one hopes are sympathetic enough to recognize them as people.

    The Paris accords are another example imo of why our system is broken or failed. The health and life of literally everyone on this are at stake and the best we've got so far at changing that is the Paris Accords. Yeah, it sucks that Trump had us step out of it but were they really gonna effectively combat climate change? I feel like the latter is the more important issue.
     
  19. Ralyks

    Ralyks The One Who Knocks Contributor

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  20. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Ok, but please understand that all of those "failings" of the Obama administration are failing that were set in law before him and were baked into the rules he had to work with.

    Consent decrees are only as effective as the Department of Justice overseeing them wants them to be. Exactly. This is why they worked well under Obama and under Eric Holder, and abysmally under Trump and Sessions.

    Slight semantic point, the 15 isn't the number of trans employees, or female employees, or black employees, or whatever, but the total number of employees a company has before the Civil Rights Act's Title VII protections come into play.This is probably a necessary tradeoff to minimize regulatory reporting burdens, and while you could argue - perhaps fairly - that there shouldn't be a restriction for businesses with less than 15, in either case this was the Civil Rights Act that Obama was given to work with because that's how it was written when passed in 1964 (a grace period of 25, then down to 15), and he expanded protections as far as he could under that Act.

    ALL laws are subject to be mulled over by the SCOTUS and enacted under the US legal system. That's enshirined in the US Constitution. Thank fucking god, too, in the case of the current president.

    On the Paris Agreement, again, yes, the consensus of the scientific community - noting it was not unanimous, but was very broad - was that by keeping climate chance under 2*C, better yet under 1.5, we would be able to avoid catastrophic outcomes, and that the measures put forward were very likely to be successful in doing so.

    I think one of the common undercurrents of this discussion is you have an exagerated understanding of what one president can do unilaterally, without the support of a majority of the House and Senate, and often times a supermajority of the Senate. Obama did a tremendous amount with the hand he was dealt, pushing executive power to limits that even his supporters weren't always comfortable with... But you're not going to change the Civil Rights Act without the support of Congress, you're not going to change the Supreme Court's power without a constitutional amendment, and no US president can have an realistic hope of unilaterally naming all the terms of an international agreement. As it was, the Paris Agreement was so substantive that the GOP flatly refused to support it. To then criticize him for not going far enough, well, that's sort of tough to understand..
     
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