US Political Discussion: Biden/Harris Edition (Rules in OP)

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by mongey, Mar 2, 2016.

  1. JoshuaVonFlash

    JoshuaVonFlash SSBRO.org regular

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    If I'm being honest, voting Trump out in November and installing Biden in his place won't really change much. I'm sure the tweets from Biden will be nicer sounding and maybe even less coherent. But, I think we should all remind ourselves that these problems that sparked the unrest and protests have been a problem under every administration any of us here have lived under, including Obama. None of them has done anything substantial to fix these issues. Because at the end of the day, although we vote them in, they do not answer to us. Nor do they have our best interests at heart.

    I'm ranting a bit, but I feel as a country, the only people who can be trusted to take care of ourselves is ourselves.
     
  2. MFB

    MFB Banned

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    It's all about the people Biden will appoint to also help run everything, and the fact that they'll be competent at their jobs, and more importantly: allowed to do them
     
  3. AxRookie

    AxRookie Aspiring Expert

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    Absolutely! with the people he brings replacing all of Trump's do-nothing yes men everything will change!

    And after that, and with REAL leadership this country can get back to actually being great again!
     
  4. JoshuaVonFlash

    JoshuaVonFlash SSBRO.org regular

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    Obama had very competent people in his cabinet, but they weren't competent in serving us. Who they were competent in serving were the banks and auto manufacturers they bailed out, the people who lost their homes never got that windfall. Even with ACA, he and democrats at the time had strong representation in the senate and they passed a corpse of a bill. The people crumbs and bankers got a buffet. That's not even getting to the immigrant camps, drones, increasing inequality, etc that either Obama inherited and accelerated from W or started during his administration.

    I was still a teenager at the time but that kind of dissonance between what someone says and what they end up doing felt wrong to me even then. And now I'm seeing people ready to fall for the same trick all over again.
     
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  5. Andromalia

    Andromalia Pardon my french

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    Hey, they do a pretty good job being as reliable as the POTUS.
     
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  6. AxRookie

    AxRookie Aspiring Expert

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    You've been drinking the Kool-aid for too long...

    Obama didn't bail out anyone, The "Fed" did! and Ben Bernanke did the right thing to save the economy from another Great Depression!!!

    Gees, you really have no idea what's happing, Stop watching news shows and go learn what's really happened since Bush let everything go to s#$%...

    Your avatar is a good fit...
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
  7. Ralyks

    Ralyks The One Who Knocks Contributor

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    This, plus the fact that he's basically hinted he'll be a one term president makes his VP pick all the more important. Hell, that could be the most important part in this instance.
     
  8. JoshuaVonFlash

    JoshuaVonFlash SSBRO.org regular

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    You do realize that the board of governors for the "Fed" is made up of officials that the president nominates right? They're not an independently operating organization. Meaning the president is just as responsible for the actions they take. Lastly, it's quite facetious to claim that one guy saved the country from another great depression. Things are relative and I doubt the millions in this country that lost homes and jobs consider the economic crises of '08 a "crises averted".
     
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  9. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Eh, I'm not so sure I agree. The ACA may not have been a dream bill, but some sort of universal health care coverage had been a Democratic policy objective since the 90s, and really Ted Kennedy's primary legislative goal for far longer than that. The fact Obama managed to pass something at all, and that the GOP's rallying cry ever since has been "Repeal Obamacare," is pretty striking, I think.

    Other than the ACA, we can thank Obama for
    • The DREAM EO
    • Iranian denuclearization agreement
    • Consumer Protection Bureau
    • Dodd-Frank
    • Bears Ears National Monument
    • Kathadin Woods and Waters National Monument
    • a ban on new drilling in Alaska National Wildlife Refuge
    • Significant increases in automobile emissions standards, bringing the US in line with California.
    • ordering the FCC to treat broadband as a utility, making net neutrality the law of the land
    • liberalized travel with Cuba
    • introduced protection for trans federal workers
    • The so-called "Fiduciary rule" issued by the Dept of Labor requiring financial advisors to have a fiduciary relationship with their clients, in plain english requiring them to act only in their clients' best interests.
    • Stopped the practice of providing surplus military equiptment to state and local police
    • the Paris Accord on climate change
    • opened the military to transgender soldiers
    • a whole slew of crackdowns on for-profit schools focusing on strengthening consumer protections for student loans
    • sweeping criminal justice reform under Eric Holder
    • Directed the EPA to draft rules regulation carbon dioxide emissions under the Clean Air Act
    • instituted a review/oversight process for police forces with a history of unnecessary violence

    I'll be honest, a bunch of these were off memory, but a bunch were also drawn from a list of the exhaustive number of Obama-era regulations or acts that Trump has been busy trying to systematically undo: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-rolling-back-obama-rules/
     
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  10. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    There's also the whole American Recovery and Reinvestment Act - it's not like the Fed was alone here.
     
  11. AxRookie

    AxRookie Aspiring Expert

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    Facepalm... go look up when Ben became the head of the Fed and get back to me Kool-aid drinker...
     
  12. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    I'm going to go ahead and nit-pick this, and perhaps this is nit-picking, but when you're extremely confident of your conclusions and the facts you're throwing around tp show why you know you're right are actually wrong, then maybe it isn't nit-picking.

    Clinton never had a "ten point lead." After the conventions, her margin in national popular vote polling was at widest maybe 7 points, was 2 points or less for much of September, and 2-3 points in November. Her final margin was 2.1 points, which was on the lower end but certainly inside that range.

    Now, a whole lot of people did a poor job interpreting that data... But polling showed a close race where Clinton was consistently, not heavily, the favorite.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/
     
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  13. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    I was considering trying to explain this but..what's the point? That's just the condition. The rest of the argument is that social networks view fact-checking as some election game-changer trump card that they just bide their time for the right moment to play it.
     
  14. sleewell

    sleewell SS.org Regular

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    trump also wasn't the incumbent last time. voters will have almost 4 years to judge him for what he has or hasn't done in office when they head out to cast a ballot this time.

    i think he has spent the majority of his time pandering to his base of 35-37% instead of reaching out to new voters or at least those on the fence. it was so close last time, it will be interesting to see if his calculation for this election was correct or not.

    it's going to be hard to get seniors back. its not like there is another voting block he can get to replace them. also suburban white females have really swung away from him going back to the 2018 midterms to current.
     
  15. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    I mean, the premise is just as idiotic - if they waited to play their fact-check card now, only after the Trump base has had three and a half years to be indoctrinated in believing only what Trump tells them, then they severely mis-played their hand - but there's no harm in cutting down the deck of cards the whole argument was built on while we're at it, either.

    I do kinda wonder if the polling in 2016 has become part of the Trump mythos, on the right - not just that he was behind in the polls before election day, but that the polls were hugely and wildly stacked against him by massive, unheard-of margins, so that his surprise win on election day has some sort of mythical redemption-arc twist to it. The reality is far less fantastical, if as dramatic in its own right albeit in more of an "inside baseball" manner - Trump lost the popular vote by almost exactly the margin the polls expected, but had just enough states break right that, by a margin of something like 80,000 votes across three states, he was able to eke out a narrow Electoral College win. If so. I guess the "lesson" to the Trump faithful here is to ignore his current 10-point deficit in the national polling because "he's done it before, he can do it again" even if he didn't actually do it before.
     
  16. JoshuaVonFlash

    JoshuaVonFlash SSBRO.org regular

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    I'm aware but the person I responded to specifically mentioned The "Fed".

    Also, @MaxOfMetal @Randy apparently I'm a "kool-aid drinker"....

     
  17. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    And entirely ignoring that the social media companies have different stances on things. FB and Twitter are taking completely opposing stances on this.
     
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  18. JoshuaVonFlash

    JoshuaVonFlash SSBRO.org regular

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    I'm gonna ask you this and I really want your honest opinion on the matter. Did any of this provide any substantial change? Did the oversight process for police forces actually hold police responsible for the action of ill intent? I'm not a trans person myself but why no protection for all trans workers in the nation? The Paris Accords sounds nice but are they actually gonna prevent rising sea levels and climate change?

    My point here is that with Liberals they get handed softballs every time to knock out of the park and they always manage to bunt. It's always performance over substance.
     
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  19. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Yeah, I think it does provide substantive change.

    Consent decrees have generally been found to be effective at reducing racial profiling and improving community relations with the police force:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/maga...ce-heres-what-has-hasnt-happened/?arc404=true

    Why not protect trans rights nationally? Well, he did - the Obama Administration did take the stance that the Civil Rights' Act's prohibition on discrimination on the basis of sex also included sexual identity. I probably should have included that in my list. However, as the head of the federal government, Obama had a LOT more authority to make immediate changes to federal hiring and termination practices, which he also did.
    https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/lgbtq-rights/

    Would the Paris Climate Agreement have been effective? Probably, if enacted and if countries lived up to their commitments. There was some criticism from the left that it was possible the "less than 2 degrees C" minimum commitment (though, evidently, not the "less than 1.5 degrees" target) was still too high to prevent a feedback loop of rising temperatures, but the terms of the Agreement were largely believed to have been enough to make, at a minimum, significant strides in stopping global warming. Countries not living up to their commitments under the agreement were a risk, however, and arguably one much larger now that Trump has pulled us out - if we don't do it, why should they?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Agreement

    As far as "getting handed softballs, and bunting rather than knocking it out of the park," the Paris Agreement is a perfect example - the reason Trump was able to back out was the US commitment was not a legally-enforcable ratified treaty and it took considerable structural work on our part to allow us to sign it without ratifying it, and the reason for that was Obama knew, and Mitch McConnell had made it clear as day, that any climate change treaty was DOA in the Senate. So, I don't know if I'll agree on your "softball" analogy - fairer, I'd say, would be to say that Obama was given a really nasty slider, and still managed to get enough wood on the ball to eke out a base hit with two out in the bottom of the 9th.
     
  20. tedtan

    tedtan SS.org Regular

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