US Political Discussion: Biden/Harris Edition (Rules in OP)

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by mongey, Mar 2, 2016.

  1. GoldDragon

    GoldDragon SS.org Regular

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    I've marked the parts that I don't agree with.

     
  2. fantom

    fantom Misses his 6 strings

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  3. Randy

    Randy ✝✝✝ Super Moderator

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    Disagree. Not that Trump and Republicans brought it on. People, in general, brought it on. Social media companies turned out to be just as greedy as media companies, with encouraging and rewarding bad behavior if they believe it brought more click-thrus.

    You might disagree with me but in the case of Trump in particular, he LONG posted things that were against policies they enforced on everyone else. They looked the other way because keeping Trump's tweets on the frontpage of all the major news organizations was good for business. Yes, I think they selectively ignored posts from people on the other side of the aisle too, so this was not one-sided. Don't know what changed but I doubt they developed scruples overnight, they very well may have decided they wanted to tip the scales for 2020 or they may have decided they don't like Trump's chances and now they're looking to curry favor with the Democrats :shrug:

    Either way, there's zero altruism in what these big media and social media companies do. But to the subject at hand, a kneejerk EO for the government to control oversight is not the solution 'the people' need.
     
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  4. tedtan

    tedtan SS.org Regular

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    It wasn't about opinions, it was about facts.


    Actually, they can. The president, as a public figure, is more open to criticism and other discussion than is the average citizen. It goes with the job.
     
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  5. fantom

    fantom Misses his 6 strings

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    I wanted to elaborate regarding the Russian troll farms. So the link I posted has indicted people for trying to manipulate the election using social media after the investigation. Whether or not the election would have had a different outcome is very hard to prove, but I can accept the government said it didn't even if there reasons may be more political than I would like. But they really had no other choice.

    Tech companies recognize that, hey, 4 years ago foreign governments actively tried to change America by trolling social media, maybe that was irresponsible to allow it. Whether or not the trolls succeeded kind of does not matter. That is like saying, "I'm sorry officer, I tried to steal this car but I couldn't get it to start before you got here."

    Given that we know for a fact that social media was used as a tool to sway public opinion by foreign intelligence, it would be irresponsible for tech companies to not do something about it. Trying to fact check and limit spam from troll farms is one approach. Is it perfect, no, but I have no idea how that can be viewed as a bad thing, regardless of political views.
     
  6. GoldDragon

    GoldDragon SS.org Regular

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    We are having this discussion NOW, because everyone in the media believed the polls and thought Hillary was a lock.

    If the race was believed to be closer, this discussion would have come up 4 years ago.

    They back whoever has policies more favorable to them or more aligned with their values. Most SV tech companies are 80% liberal, so obviously the right is more concerned about this than the left.

    CEO of Facebook or Twitter has more sway over outcome of election than entire Russian intelligence/hacking operation.
     
  7. fantom

    fantom Misses his 6 strings

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    Do you really think the CEO of Facebook or Twitter telling probably thousands of reports, many of whom don't even live in America, to influence the election would not result in employee protests and walkouts? They really have no power. Their employees are intelligent and opinionated people that can easily get a job at another company if they aren't happy.
     
  8. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    People with that level of education tend to be very left-leaning though -- implementing a policy that makes conservatives look bad (like fact-checking) probably wouldn't get too much internal push back.

    But ya, it's kinda dumb to compare FB/Twitter to Russian hacking initiatives. Social media companies obviously have -the potential- to have a larger sway in the election, since the Russian efforts simply used these platforms. But these companies don't exploit that power because it would go against the social contract people have with these services. People didn't sign up to FB because they were liberal, and to make politics a big part of any platform is a quick way to make people feel uncomfortable using them.
     
  9. Randy

    Randy ✝✝✝ Super Moderator

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    Lmao, you know literally nothing. People vote in their best interest, and big tech are interested in MONEY. Does Mark Zuckerberg care more about trans people in bathrooms or saving a few billion dollars in taxes? What goddamn planet are you from?

    I'm also not understanding why, if big tech wanted Hillary to win and not Trump, they waited 4 years to turn on him? You make no sense.
     
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  10. AxRookie

    AxRookie Aspiring Expert

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  11. GoldDragon

    GoldDragon SS.org Regular

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    They thought they had a ten point lead.

    There was no reason to complain, every indication was that their online campaign was doing better. That the tools were working in their favor.

    Complaining about media bias isn't something you do when you have a ten point lead and the vast majority of media outlets are liberal.

    The media is absolutely biased in favor of liberals, so this is a republican rallying cry, must like gerrymandering is for the left.

    The thing is though, it's obvious social media need to be brought to heel, and there are laws in place to do just that.
     
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  12. Randy

    Randy ✝✝✝ Super Moderator

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    And what does that look like?
     
  13. GoldDragon

    GoldDragon SS.org Regular

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    It looks like social media scrambling to find creative solutions that let them keep their doors open.

    They make so much money they technically could hire legions of arbiters and have a dispute resolution process.

    What I would do is limit the scope of messages based on level of vetting. Some assclown wants to rant politics, make sure only up to 50 ppl can see his posts. Pull them from feeds.

    Someone with 5 million followers will be allowed to reach a larger audience. Some armchair commentator with five folliwers will be limited.

    Twitter is complete garbage. It institutionalized gossip. It shouldn't survive.
     
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  14. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    Obviously these companies would just leave the US before doing something so fundamentally inefficient and damaging.
     
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  15. fantom

    fantom Misses his 6 strings

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    I'd be curious to see stats here... I can't find anything about tech workers, but by county,
    https://siliconvalleyindicators.org...tage-of-registered-voters-by-political-party/

    This doesn't surprise me. Of note is that less than half are Democrat over time. The number of Republicans drops over time, and the number of independent / unaffiliated rises. I personally wouldn't read into that 2018 number much, as Trump has alienated a lot of people in bay area (even Republicans). But, with respect to this discussion, even with like 20-30% Republicans at tech companies, the CEOs would not be able to pull shit like what has been stated here. Also, a 2018 Wired article indicates that 40% or so of tech company leads (out of 600 sampled) are Republican (likely due to taxes and wanting less government involvement in the industry). So ya, any conspiracy about tech companies organizing to manipulate political messaging to win an election would mean that somehow they can get nearly half of leads and 1 out of every 3 or 4 employees to stay quiet.... Haha... Not likely

    Repeating this again. Most media is closer to neutral than you think. Your belief that media is liberal and trying to shut out conservatives is pretty much a belief based on no actual facts. Your definition of neutral leans further right than what is really neutral. Once you can accept that you have bias, maybe you will be able to argue less with many members of this forum that are mostly being neutral and civil.

    https://www.adfontesmedia.com/
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
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  16. Randy

    Randy ✝✝✝ Super Moderator

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    WHO MADE THAT WEBSITE THO
     
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  17. fantom

    fantom Misses his 6 strings

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  18. AxRookie

    AxRookie Aspiring Expert

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    They sure don't look like they're scrambling, if anything they've doubled down...
     
  19. Randy

    Randy ✝✝✝ Super Moderator

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    Welp, Dragon and Tinfoil can deflect it all they want but I think the last couple days is the absolute living embodiment and finale of a failed presidency.

    Trump enjoyed 3 1/2 years of a semi-normal presidency in terms of national stability and general 'day to day', despite the over-the-top sociopathy, gaslighting all the worst elements of our society to feed his ego, and the overall corruption and sawing away of institutional table legs. It's been 3 years of careening down the hill knowing the brakes were cut and hoping for a miracle, and naively thinking that prayer was answered every second you hadn't yet reached the bottom.

    This is what the bottom looks like.

    100,000 people dead from a preventable virus that only was allowed to mature to that point by deliberate divestment in public safety apparatus, vanity and braggadocio encouraging people to flout even basic safety measures as a blood sacrifice for their tribe, and precipitously reopening to fake a return to normal for the sake of gamesmanship.

    20% of people unemployed, the majority of are either too afraid to go back, don't want to go back or there's nowhere to go back to. Thousands of small businesses shuttered and not coming back, and several that are hanging on either until they reopen and the full strength of their customers never come back or they're finished off in the second virus peak. The strongest economy in the history of the world brought to it's knees in two months!

    Now every major city in this country is on fire or fixing to be, because mob rule looks better than institutional lawlessness. The fish rots at the head. Each level of leadership inherits a shitty attitude and no respect for the people that put them there from the next office above them that gets away with it, until you have cops killing people in broad daylight because they know they'll get away with it. It's a double indictment, first that people were brought to this point and secondly, that leadership couldn't say nor do anything to quell the anger.

    He's passing vanity laws against online criticism instead! You could call it 'moving deck chairs on the Titanic' but this example is even worse!

    Trump's three years were like Chip Kelly being called a genius because he won games with Andy Reid's roster. Then it's been 3 months of what happens when Chip Kelly had to play with Chip Kelly's roster. A steady decline and then the drop right off the cliff when the last table leg comes out.

    MAGA is dead. KAGA is dead. This is the dictionary definition of a failure of leadership. Donald Trump didn't inherit the country before it was consumed by a volcano or swallowed by the Earth, and given an impossible task. He was given infinite opportunities to do right things, and he always chose wrong things, and because lightning did not strike him dead then and there, his cheering section proclaimed he must be right.

    He is not an even remotely viable candidate anymore. It would be 4 years just like this last 3 months.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
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  20. SpaceDock

    SpaceDock Shred till your dead

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    America is just another failed Trump business.
     
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