US Political Discussion: Biden/Harris Edition (Rules in OP)

Grindspine

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I really don’t wish to restart the entire abortion discussion all over again. But let me state I respect your opinion, even though I disagree. I saw these things with the utmost respect, and I am not “trolling” as some say.

A human has its own genetically unique DNA at conception (week 0), it starts to develop its central nervous system at week 3, a heart at week 3, arms legs ears and eyes at week 4. I saw and heard my daughter’s heartbeat at 5.5 weeks. This “ball of cells” you speak of is a human being that deserves a life.

There is states where a woman can walk Into a clinic during her 3rd trimester and request their baby be dismembered limb by limb. Simply because it is inconvenient. I am pretty libertarian in most aspects, and I think government involvement in most things should be limited to a minimum. But the murder of innocent babies, who are given no chance at life, who are deprived of the most basic and fundamental right there is, is heinous. We should all, as citizens stand together against murder of the innocent, and expect our government to provide for their protection and safety.
Yet, a human fetus does not develop the complexity of the neural system to perceive pain until week 24-25 per the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. https://www.acog.org/advocacy/facts-are-important/gestational-development-capacity-for-pain I think that the ACOG is a pretty sound source for information on fetal development in humans.

Just because the "central nervous system starts to develop at week three, that does not equate to being a perceptive creature. At week three, it is really still just a ball of cells. And really, I work in a medical laboratory. I deal with human tissue all week long. A ball of cells is a ball of cells. The idea that something special happens "at conception" is just a catch phrase that dismisses the actual life that these bans are inflicting damage upon.

And regarding the late-term abortion comment, this resource goes more in depth about specific cases where any states had allowed late term abortions. Roe vs Wade pretty much went by trimesters, which was somewhat arbitrary, but at least fell closely enough to actual lines of viability and development to be arguable.

Our entire justice system is based around a "moral law". It is morally wrong to steal so we punish thieves, it is morally wrong to kill therefore we punish killers, it is morally wrong to rape so we punish rapists, etc. The "moral law" that dictates right from wrong in our legal system is based on judeo-christian values. Where do you guys want to draw the line? Should we not punish murderers, thieves and rapists because this is christians trying to shove their values down your throat?
Have you ever taken an ethics class? Maybe reading up on Hobbes and the concept of social contract will give you an idea of why "morals" such as do not kill and do not steal are present in all cultures. Morals and societal rules existed long before Christianity or even Judaism.
 

narad

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In Glade's mind, Moses came down the hill all, "Thou shalt not kill" and people in the crowd were like:

shocked-agree.gif
 

Glades

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In Glade's mind, Moses came down the hill all, "Thou shalt not kill" and people in the crowd were like:

shocked-agree.gif
I never said other cultures don't have moral systems with common ground with ours. I was pointing out to the fact that American laws are based on the English common law, and the English common law has its base in judeo-christian values. Other cultures in the world have a similar understanding of the 3 examples I gave, but widely different in other aspects. This is not hard to understand people.
 

narad

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I never said other cultures don't have moral systems with common ground with ours. I was pointing out to the fact that American laws are based on the English common law, and the English common law has its base in judeo-christian values. Other cultures in the world have a similar understanding of the 3 examples I gave, but widely different in other aspects. This is not hard to understand people.

I'm not saying other cultures don't also breathe. I'm just saying that Americans breathing can be traced back to the English breathing, and ultimately originating with Judeo-Christians breathing. C'mon man, this is a super important point I'm making.
 

nightflameauto

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I never said other cultures don't have moral systems with common ground with ours. I was pointing out to the fact that American laws are based on the English common law, and the English common law has its base in judeo-christian values. Other cultures in the world have a similar understanding of the 3 examples I gave, but widely different in other aspects. This is not hard to understand people.
Try not to trip over this thought.

Judeo-Christian values probably had their origin in cultures before Christianity even existed, since we can find folktales and such about the perils of murder, rape, suicide and several other common "human" rules for behaving as part of a society from groups as far back as the hunter-gatherers. I'd imagine if we could translate cave-paintings into modern English we'd probably find out those rules came about right around the time man went from grunting ape to "hey you."

There's always a deeper root when it comes to human nature. Shit. For the most part, wild animals don't attack their own kind outside of territorial disputes or breeding disputes. And let's face it, we're barely evolved past wild animal state even now.
 

DrewH

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I never said other cultures don't have moral systems with common ground with ours. I was pointing out to the fact that American laws are based on the English common law, and the English common law has its base in judeo-christian values. Other cultures in the world have a similar understanding of the 3 examples I gave, but widely different in other aspects. This is not hard to understand people.
Morality existed long before Christianity. Morality is rooted in human biology. We are programmed as humans to perpetuate the survival of ourselves, our groups, and our species. So, it's natural that we would not be instinctually inclined to kill others or do harm to others in other ways. There are exceptions to this rule and those are biologic anomalies. The fact that Christians try to take ownership of morality is just another example of the fraud that Christianity is.
 

wheresthefbomb

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Every retail worker is entitled to one murder a year so long as it takes place on work grounds during work hours. Hospitality workers are entitled to two.

Someone I used to work with put real coke into an old diabetic rapist's "diet" coke every day for like two years.

idk what came of it but I haven't seen dude around
 

tedtan

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Soooooo steering back on topic, Weisselberg pleaded guilty to tax fraud. So there goes the Trump Organization.
Unfortunately, I doubt it will be that bad. They’ll probably have to pay some fines and replace some executives (obviously Weisselberg, but also a new CEO and possibly head of HR), but they’ll survive with only a slap on the wrist.
 

Drew

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The whole Trump thing. I mean after 2 impeachments, Russiagate, and the J6 hearings they have nothing on the guy.
You're kidding, right?

The Mueller Report followed a DOJ internal protocol that they could form no opinion on guilt of a sitting President since that was Congress's job, but referred ten instances that Mueller believed potentially rose to the level of obstruction of justice, and noted the fact that they could not determine if collusion had occurred beyond a reasonable doubt was largely because of aforementioned obstruction. Barr front-ran it with his own letter to shape the media narrative, but Mueller made it pretty clear he believed obstruction had occurted.

The first impeachment failed, though did garner a few Republican votes, and a bunch of the Republicans who voted against impeachment fully believed Trump was guilty of the charges, they just didn't think it rose to the level of impeachment. And I'll note that, well, look where we are with Ukraine now. The second impeachment, McConnell was pretty clear that the only reason he didn't vote to convict, and rally the GOP behind him, was that Trump was leaving office in a little more than a week anyway. He fully thought what Trump had done deserved impeacment, and I'm sure with Trump publicly mulling a 2024 run he's regretting not seeing it through now.

January 6th hearings have thus far covicted virtually everyone they've indicted, are still ongoing, as is the parallel DOJ investigation. So far Stebe Bannon, Trump's former close advisor, is their highest profile conviction. Meanwhile, we now know that Trump is under investigation for alleged violtions of the Espionage Act and that nuclear secrets were some of the documents he was illegally in posession of. You also glossed over the Georgia investigation into solicitation of electoral fraud, which even based on publicly available informtion it's not looking good for Trump, and if Giuliani hasn't been charged yet, he's about to be.

Like, it's not a matter of if Trump is guilty or not at this point. He's only been tried via political channels, and so far the GOP hasn't been willing to turn on him. The criminal channels, however, are just starting to catch up with him, and not for nothing he's been telling people the main reason he wants to run in 2024 is because he thinks it'll make him immune from criminal prosecution. :lol:
 

Drew

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Unfortunately, I doubt it will be that bad. They’ll probably have to pay some fines and replace some executives (obviously Weisselberg, but also a new CEO and possibly head of HR), but they’ll survive with only a slap on the wrist.
They're not a publicly traded corporation, but a privately closely-held one - this is a bit more problematic than if, say, Wells Fargo was accused of fraud. Also, when Trump himself is being investigated for what his CEO just pled guilty to, then either Trump was just woefully oblivious and a victim here, or he was in on it and charges will soon follow once Weisselberg is compelled to testify via subpoena.
 

tedtan

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They're not a publicly traded corporation, but a privately closely-held one - this is a bit more problematic than if, say, Wells Fargo was accused of fraud. Also, when Trump himself is being investigated for what his CEO just pled guilty to, then either Trump was just woefully oblivious and a victim here, or he was in on it and charges will soon follow once Weisselberg is compelled to testify via subpoena.
Yeah, I do expect this to be bad for Trump and it sounds like it could be worse for the Trump Org than I first thought, too.
 

nightflameauto

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You're kidding, right?

The Mueller Report followed a DOJ internal protocol that they could form no opinion on guilt of a sitting President since that was Congress's job, but referred ten instances that Mueller believed potentially rose to the level of obstruction of justice, and noted the fact that they could not determine if collusion had occurred beyond a reasonable doubt was largely because of aforementioned obstruction. Barr front-ran it with his own letter to shape the media narrative, but Mueller made it pretty clear he believed obstruction had occurted.

The first impeachment failed, though did garner a few Republican votes, and a bunch of the Republicans who voted against impeachment fully believed Trump was guilty of the charges, they just didn't think it rose to the level of impeachment. And I'll note that, well, look where we are with Ukraine now. The second impeachment, McConnell was pretty clear that the only reason he didn't vote to convict, and rally the GOP behind him, was that Trump was leaving office in a little more than a week anyway. He fully thought what Trump had done deserved impeacment, and I'm sure with Trump publicly mulling a 2024 run he's regretting not seeing it through now.

January 6th hearings have thus far covicted virtually everyone they've indicted, are still ongoing, as is the parallel DOJ investigation. So far Stebe Bannon, Trump's former close advisor, is their highest profile conviction. Meanwhile, we now know that Trump is under investigation for alleged violtions of the Espionage Act and that nuclear secrets were some of the documents he was illegally in posession of. You also glossed over the Georgia investigation into solicitation of electoral fraud, which even based on publicly available informtion it's not looking good for Trump, and if Giuliani hasn't been charged yet, he's about to be.

Like, it's not a matter of if Trump is guilty or not at this point. He's only been tried via political channels, and so far the GOP hasn't been willing to turn on him. The criminal channels, however, are just starting to catch up with him, and not for nothing he's been telling people the main reason he wants to run in 2024 is because he thinks it'll make him immune from criminal prosecution. :lol:
I just wanna say that finger-slip is one of the best ever. If ever anybody deserved to be a "Stebe" it's Bannon. Dude looks like what would happen if some homeless dude went on a two-week bender in Alaska and then got picked up for solicitation but was confused about the charge. And that's at his damned press conferences, which you'd think he has time to prepare for.
 

Drew

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I just wanna say that finger-slip is one of the best ever. If ever anybody deserved to be a "Stebe" it's Bannon. Dude looks like what would happen if some homeless dude went on a two-week bender in Alaska and then got picked up for solicitation but was confused about the charge. And that's at his damned press conferences, which you'd think he has time to prepare for.
:rofl:

And then there's his habit of wearing multiple collared shirts at once...?
 

Andromalia

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Is there anyone else who has suffered a depreciation in the regard they hold for this symbol? I want my flag back.
In France also, overenthusiastically sporting a national flag tags you as a racist, the exception being football/rugby matches. Rightwing extremists everywhere try to appropriate symbols of patriotism.
Which is a bit nonsensical, since they were the ones collaborating with the nazis.
 


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