US Political Discussion: Biden/Harris Edition (Rules in OP)

nightflameauto

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Please don't pretend to be a Christian when you clearly are not. The definition of a Christian is that who is saved. You cannot be saved and say these things.
#1 Christians are called to share the gospel with all nations (as you say proselitize). It is not the point to forcefully convert people, but to share the good news of the Gospel to those that are willing to hear it. The news that there is eternal salvation in Christ. We are commanded directly by Jesus to do so. Some examples:

- Mark 16:15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
- Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"
- Acts 13:47 "For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”


#2 You cannot buy your salvation through good deeds, according to the Bible. It is only attained by believing and loving Christ. Salvation is in faith alone, not good works. Good works are a result of salvation, not the causal reason for it. So the signing up people argument is not a Christian argument. Some examples:

- Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
- Galatians 2:15 Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Grandma? I thought you were dead?

Ain't no gatekeepers like Christian gatekeepers. Grandma.
 

DrewH

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Please don't pretend to be a Christian when you clearly are not. The definition of a Christian is that who is saved. You cannot be saved and say these things.
#1 Christians are called to share the gospel with all nations (as you say proselitize). It is not the point to forcefully convert people, but to share the good news of the Gospel to those that are willing to hear it. The news that there is eternal salvation in Christ. We are commanded directly by Jesus to do so. Some examples:

- Mark 16:15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
- Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"
- Acts 13:47 "For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”


#2 You cannot buy your salvation through good deeds, according to the Bible. It is only attained by believing and loving Christ. Salvation is in faith alone, not good works. Good works are a result of salvation, not the causal reason for it. So the signing up people argument is not a Christian argument. Some examples:

- Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
- Galatians 2:15 Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

So now you are the authority on who is a Christian? What you are saying is complete bullshit anyways and you are quoting a bunch of fictional text. The entire bible is fiction. Oh, and God didn't just strike me down for saying that. I think IF there is a God and it's a big IF, he/she would be laughing his or her ass off at some of this stuff. That people would quote passages from centuries old text that have about as much to do with the truth as a Stephen King novel. This is precisely why women are getting completely F'd right now in regards to abortion because of the brainwashed low IQ masses that spew this utter nonsense .

If God exists, I believe the rules would be simple. Be good to others, be a benefit to society, and don't F anyone over. Pretty much the opposite of what conservatives are doing now in Gods name.
 

mastapimp

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Please don't pretend to be a Christian when you clearly are not. The definition of a Christian is that who is saved. You cannot be saved and say these things.
#1 Christians are called to share the gospel with all nations (as you say proselitize). It is not the point to forcefully convert people, but to share the good news of the Gospel to those that are willing to hear it. The news that there is eternal salvation in Christ. We are commanded directly by Jesus to do so. Some examples:

- Mark 16:15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
- Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"
- Acts 13:47 "For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”


#2 You cannot buy your salvation through good deeds, according to the Bible. It is only attained by believing and loving Christ. Salvation is in faith alone, not good works. Good works are a result of salvation, not the causal reason for it. So the signing up people argument is not a Christian argument. Some examples:

- Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
- Galatians 2:15 Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Are those verses seriously keeping your life going in the right direction? As somebody that's never attended a church service in my life, it's humorous to me when people state their point and play this game of "check out my biblical cross referencing skillz" Does it make you feel like you're in some cool club where only other members truly understand each other? Is it a power play to say that "the word of God is on my side?"

Again, as a non-Christian, this whole verse referencing swordplay between believers is laughable.
 

tedtan

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But where does it say anything about abortion in the Evangelical Christian bylaws? The only scriptures I ever see used to justify extreme views about abortion are the one in Jeremiah about how God knew that Jeremiah was going to be a prophet before he was even born and the similar one in Isaiah that basically just says that Isaiah was born. In fact, there are plenty of examples in Biblical law that make it clear that an unborn fetus is of some less value than a born baby in the case of a crime or an accident. And every word in the Bible about the topic are concentrated in the Old Testament, so then why don't the Jewish people hold just as strong views as Evangelicals?

No, there's something else going on that isn't so easy to explain.

Growing up going to a fundamentalist Christian school, I know intimately what the extra rules are that evangelicals have that have nothing to do with the Bible, but it is 100% not taught where those rules come from. Things like how masturbation is really bad, or how dice are banned from use, even in mundane things like board games (you have to use a spinner), or how dancing of any form is absolutely taboo, or doggy style (even between a married couple), or how playing D&D is absolutely equivalent to open outright devil worship (even if you use a spinner :lol: ). We even had a guy who got caught playing pinochle (outside of school) and got in big trouble, and he was like "the Mormons can play pinochle, why can't we?" and the answer was along the lines of no one knows why we are this way, we just are.
Just like the law and order republicans don’t support the law enforcement agencies when it isn’t on their favor (MGT’s “defund the FBI”) or follow the constitution (separation of church and state, and that pesky rule of law thing), most Christians don’t actually follow the Bible. The average Joe Christian is just following what the religious leaders have been teaching for decades/centuries without questioning why. And as for the religious leaders, who knows what their ultimate goal is. Maybe it is just go forth and multiply, maybe there is an ulterior motive known only to those at higher levels of the various religions (kind of like Mormons and the weird soul sucking alien spaceship things) because it would be too ridiculous for the average Joe to believe.


As to abortion, imagine if Jewish people started a campaign to ban consumption of pork or if Muslim people began a campaign to prohibit consumption of alcohol. You'd probably say something like that violates the First Amendment by making a law respecting the establishment of religion. But the Scotus says it's somehow unconstitutional to stop Christian people making laws based on their religion?
And in a country where the Constitution specifically separates church and State, at that.


Note that the Bible even says not to consume pork, and never says "just kidding" about that, yet show me one good Baptist who doesn't eat bacon.

The religion isn't even based on any scriptures, it's all based on a mindset that is only passed directly through observing the behaviours of the leaders. Honestly it was me actually reading the Bible that got me out of that mindset. Everyone should be legally allowed to practice their religion as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, but the problem is that the ones leading the religion don't want it to work both ways for everyone else.
No, the leaders want to implement their version os Sharia law.
 

MASS DEFECT

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The definition of a Christian is that who is saved.

This definition is only shared by around 20 Christian sects out of literally hundreds around the world. The Salvation thing varies greatly across the sects, denominations, cults, and big churches. Well, unless you are part of one of the denominations that claim to be the "One True Church". Even so, a lot of churches claim to be the one true church.
 

Mathemagician

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Please don't pretend to be a Christian when you clearly are not. The definition of a Christian is that who is saved. You cannot be saved and say these things.
#1 Christians are called to share the gospel with all nations (as you say proselitize). It is not the point to forcefully convert people, but to share the good news of the Gospel to those that are willing to hear it. The news that there is eternal salvation in Christ. We are commanded directly by Jesus to do so. Some examples:

- Mark 16:15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
- Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"
- Acts 13:47 "For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”


#2 You cannot buy your salvation through good deeds, according to the Bible. It is only attained by believing and loving Christ. Salvation is in faith alone, not good works. Good works are a result of salvation, not the causal reason for it. So the signing up people argument is not a Christian argument. Some examples:

- Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
- Galatians 2:15 Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Ah the “no true Scotsman” intellectual fallacy. You do not get to decide who is or is not “Christian”.

Anyone who follows a generally Protestant belief system is Christian. Some churches welcome gay and trans members, others meanwhile put on plays and denounce those same people.

Both are Christian’s.

Logic time: IF a god exists. Then only that god can decide who is and is not correct.

So anyone else claiming to understand an omnipotent being and claiming to speak for that god is a Pharisee and false prophet.

If someone says they are Christian then they must be treated as such.

Also, I called this earlier in this thread - fundamentalists will argue about with sub-group is “more correct” via infighting once they have eliminated everyone else.

One again sharing Bible verses prescribing abortion:

Numbers 5:11-31​

King James Version​

11 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,
13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner;
14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:
15 Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance.
16 And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the Lord:
17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water:
18 And the priest shall set the woman before the Lord, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:
19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse:
20 But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband:
21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The Lord make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the Lord doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell;
22 And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen.
23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water:
24 And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter.
25 Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman's hand, and shall wave the offering before the Lord, and offer it upon the altar:
26 And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, even the memorial thereof, and burn it upon the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water.
27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.
28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.
29 This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled;
30 Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the Lord, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law.
31 Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.
 
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philkilla

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...by pointing out that the people who disagree with you don't actually all agree with each other on much of anything? :lol:

Sure man, you do you. You're definitely the victim here. :lol:

Once again, I never claimed to be a victim.

I didn't even make a post about myself; it was a cautionary tale towards @Glades

YOU and YOU ALONE made this about me.

If you want my number/address want me to cook you dinner just let me know.


FFS drop the charade dude.
 

nightflameauto

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I will say Christianity in my life has provided me one positive thing out of all the hundreds and hundreds of negatives: the foundation for a fictional God that is ripe for lampooning.

1. Jealous. If he's the supreme being and has the ultimate power to do anything, why the heck would he be jealous? What's to be jealous of? Snap yer fingers and fix it, dude.

2. Vengeful. Disobey = flood the world. God throws some MASSIVE tantrums, for a supreme being that's supposedly full of love, infinite patience, and understanding. (Maybe jerk it every once in a while and let off some of that love, bro? Might tamp down the temper too.)

3. Arrogant. I could let this slide if he really was the supreme being. But he talks about being the supreme being so much, it starts to give you the impression "he doth protest too much." Even in his own book he can't STFU about being supreme. I've seen no proof he can stand toe-to-toe with Dianna Ross in a sing-off.

4. Whiny and demanding. Have you read the ten commandments? Other than the direct "no other god" and "no graven images" shit, the second of which seems to confuse 99.99999% of "Real Christians" based on the churches I've visited, we're all too busy not doing any of that shit to be bothered by the crazy robed dude screaming about it in the corner.

So, thanks Christianity. You're oppressive descriptions of your 'Father' at least lead to nice fodder for shitty fiction. Hi5s all around.
 

Xaios

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Please don't pretend to be a Christian when you clearly are not. The definition of a Christian is that who is saved. You cannot be saved and say these things.
#1 Christians are called to share the gospel with all nations (as you say proselitize). It is not the point to forcefully convert people, but to share the good news of the Gospel to those that are willing to hear it. The news that there is eternal salvation in Christ. We are commanded directly by Jesus to do so. Some examples:

- Mark 16:15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
- Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"
- Acts 13:47 "For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”
This may come as a surprise to you, but there's more to being a beacon for Christ than yelling from the rooftops "Our way is the only way, believe and be saved, don't believe and be damned!" What are we offering by saying that? The promise of an eternal reward? Get in line, there's a boatload of other religions that offer the same. A warning of eternal damnation? Only about 70% of American Christians believe in Hell, so if there isn't even a theological consensus about what happens to the soul after death, how can Christians as a group offer up a warning anymore substantive than "something bad will happen, I promise!"

Being a Christian means trying to be like Christ. Feeding the masses, comforting the sick and the poor, speaking truth to power (and one of the major real powers in the US specifically is the greedy and morally corrupt so-called Church, make no mistake), and generally showing compassion for all people. Yet, you yourself said that America's system of law is written so as to define how to punish people based on "moral law". That's not exactly compassionate. Christ himself said that only those without sin can mete out punishment, despite the fact that the "Law of Moses" stated that the adulterous woman should be stoned when he was confronted by the Pharisees. Further, when he was the only one left who could conceivably exact punishment on her, all he did was tell her to "go and sin no more", and outright refused to condemn her either. This is an outright rebuke of the notion that Christianity itself should be used as a justification for the punishment of a sinner, and yet you've specifically advocated for such. How is anyone supposed to see this from you and not think that Christianity is full of rampant hypocrisy? Why would anyone beyond the delusionally self-righteous want any part of that? How could people be expected to believe that Christ offers the path of salvation when those who proclaim to be his followers are so sanctimonious and dishonest?

#2 You cannot buy your salvation through good deeds, according to the Bible. It is only attained by believing and loving Christ. Salvation is in faith alone, not good works. Good works are a result of salvation, not the causal reason for it. So the signing up people argument is not a Christian argument. Some examples:

- Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
- Galatians 2:15 Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
- James 2:17-20 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
 
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philkilla

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Hot take, these new IRS officers look like TSA/Walmart door greeters


🤣
 

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bostjan

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Maybe metal gate keepers. :lol:
Grandma is pretty metal, though, I'm sure they'll welcome her, even (especially) if Gertrude and Mildred told her she's no longer welcome at the Church pot luck.

Now just imagine the horror of Christian Metal gatekeepers. :lol:

Is Lamb of God a Christian Metal band? Christians - "no, they use they say 'fuck'", Metal Gatekeepers - "no, they don't say 'fuck' enough" :lol:
 

Drew

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I don’t disagree with that definition @bostjan
I'd take it a step further, and note that while a Christian by definition is someone who has accepted Jesus Christ as their savior and the Trinity as their one true god, and that while the Christian faith absolutely does ask followers to, as you put it, "spread the good news of the Gospel to those who are willing to hear it," it does NOT tell them to force other people to follow the beliefs of Christ against their will, nor does it tell them to set up a written code of law to codify and enforce those beliefs.

I suppose there's also some wiggle room on whether accepting Christ is alone grounds for salvation under the Christian faith, and if it's possible to accept Christ as your savior, but then commit mortal sins such that your salvation is jeopardized - the flesh is weak, etc.

But, in the context of the moral underpinnings of our rule of law, that's all kind of an academic point since nothing about the teachings of Christ really dictates that his followers need to set up an explicitly judeo-christian legal system. Quite a bit from the bible could be taken to imply the reverse in fact - give unto caesar what is caesar's, but give unto god what is god's, etc.
 

Drew

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Once again, I never claimed to be a victim.

I didn't even make a post about myself; it was a cautionary tale towards @Glades

YOU and YOU ALONE made this about me.

If you want my number/address want me to cook you dinner just let me know.


FFS drop the charade dude.
You implied everyone else on the board who disagrees with you is an "echo chamber." Last I checked, I'm part of that group of people on the board who at least occasionally disagrees with you, so yeah, I didn't particularly appreciate you targeting me, which makes it extremely ironic that you now feel like I'm somehow singling you out. :lol:
 

nightflameauto

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OK, as much fun as I have picking on Christianity, now that we've managed to distract ourselves for several pages doing so:
Anybody else with a queasy feeling now that Cheney is primaried out? It's like the GOP in general is doubling down on the negative.
 

Glades

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OK, as much fun as I have picking on Christianity, now that we've managed to distract ourselves for several pages doing so:
Anybody else with a queasy feeling now that Cheney is primaried out? It's like the GOP in general is doubling down on the negative.
I wonder what the future of the Jan 6 court will be with her gone. Who's picking up the torch?
 

Mathemagician

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OK, as much fun as I have picking on Christianity, now that we've managed to distract ourselves for several pages doing so:
Anybody else with a queasy feeling now that Cheney is primaried out? It's like the GOP in general is doubling down on the negative.

Yeah it’s definitely worrying. I can’t say I agreed with her policy votes much but vanilla low-tax leave people alone conservatives are essentially at the mercy of the vocal minority that has presented itself as the “Conservative party”.

She was at least willing to openly criticize trump. We saw how fast other “conservatives” folded “in line” like Rubio, Cruz, and Graham.

I don’t get deification of a rich NY real estate guy’s son. Why? Because he insults immigrants? Or the classic refrain I heard from fundies “He doesn’t have to be Christian to be used by god”. You know, fairy tales.

Are there no other conservative options that just want to talk about budgets?
 


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