To those that have moved on from a Tube amp to a SS/modeling rig.

[RevDrucifer]

Struggling to get an amp in the room sound? Use a power amp and real cab you love. People are like "but then I can't use an IR!"

So what? Great sounds can't come from real cabs? Oh, the irony.

Yeah, I go from modern metal to classic rock to EJ tones with the same cabs I run my FM9 into. At most I just open the Output EQ tab and pull some mids out, done. There’s about 50 amp models that all sounds fucking great with all the knobs at noon just going into those two cabs, so everything else is just turning 3-4 knobs and then I’m in happy land.

 

[vertibration]

What are some thoughts on the Orange Super Crush 100 ? Im looking to record direct, and wanna boost it with a Savage Drive or Fortin pedal. The amp seems like it has a good sound, might be a nice purchase

 

[Shask]

Have you done the low resonance thing in the speaker tab of the amp page?

I did on my Axe II, but not the FM3 since the SIC selection usually has something that works.

The FM3 has definitely improved this aspect over the Axe II. It is finally at a level where it doesnt bug me as much. Its not just a matter of boosting a bunch of bass around 100hz. It is more about the compression in the way the low end pumps and recovers.

 

[budda]

What are some thoughts on the Orange Super Crush 100 ? Im looking to record direct, and wanna boost it with a Savage Drive or Fortin pedal. The amp seems like it has a good sound, might be a nice purchase

I recently got one but only have maybe 15 minutes with it (hence axefx lol). Havent recorded the DI and likely wont but I like the tones it gets with the cab Im using. This is all at low to moderate volume alone.

 

[laxu]

I created another thread specifically to address properly breaking in the 2x12 cab i use with my EVH. Because i don't play that loud, I'm suspecting this is contributing to the "harshness of the tone"... In any case, it's the least expensive solution atm.

Celestion just says to play loud and clean with plenty of low end for something like 15-30 minutes. That does most of the breaking in the speakers.

It very much depends on how quiet you are playing but no guitar gear sounds great really quiet. You could hook up the best attenuator etc but the issue is how we perceive sound at low vs louder volume, not anything the amp or cab is doing.

 

[laxu]

My final statement would be this: modelers are very appealing when you see professional musicians and YouTubers promoting them, but what you don't see is the guy who is literally paid to figure out how they work for the pros/YouTubers and make all their patches. The Axe-Fx III in particular (this is my experience) is so immensely powerful (still the most powerful modeler on the market) but it is not so friendly to the uninitiated. You will do more research and training in order to use this friggin thing than any other piece of gear you've owned. Nothing requires as much information gathering as this particular modeler. You pretty much need to be a sound engineer or producer to be able to use it properly. The factory presets aren't great and the ones you'll eventually make will blow them out of the water.

The Axe-Fx, or most modelers really, are not an amp and a cab in a digital box. They are a whole studio signal chain.

If you were invited to some famous recording studio and left to figure out how to record your guitar, would you know what to do with all the mixing consoles, mic preamps, mics and their placement etc?

So there is a definite learning curve if you come from "plug a guitar into the amp, amp into speaker cab and play" world. There's plenty of material to help on the way and getting a good guitar sound does not require a whole lot of work, but it definitely requires some effort from the user.

The bare minimum is taking a factory preset and figuring out how to dial it to sound good with your playing style, guitars and output system. The factory presets are totally fine, but maybe don't work out of the box with the rest of your setup. That's why it's best to think of them as starters and tweak them to work with your gear. Similarly presets someone else made won't work any better.

 

[NCASO96]

Celestion just says to play loud and clean with plenty of low end for something like 15-30 minutes. That does most of the breaking in the speakers.

It very much depends on how quiet you are playing but no guitar gear sounds great really quiet. You could hook up the best attenuator etc but the issue is how we perceive sound at low vs louder volume, not anything the amp or cab is doing.

15-30m? i don't know about that. everything i've read online, youtube, etc. says hours....

this article recommends 100

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/how-do-i-break-in-a-speaker/

 

[CrushingAnvil]

The Axe-Fx, or most modelers really, are not an amp and a cab in a digital box. They are a whole studio signal chain.

That's the point I was making.

 

[tayistay]

Ok folks I'm gonna settle the real amp vs modeler debate ONCE AND FOR ALL.

Are you ready?

Here goes!

"please write a long winded post about tube guitar amps vs modeling guitar amps"

Tube guitar amplifiers and modeling guitar amplifiers are both popular options among guitarists, but they have some distinct differences.

Tube amplifiers, also known as valve amplifiers, use vacuum tubes to amplify the signal from a guitar. These tubes can produce a warm, rich tone with a lot of character. Many guitarists prefer the sound of tube amplifiers because of their natural distortion and overdrive. They are known for producing a classic, vintage sound that is sought after by many players.

Modeling guitar amplifiers, on the other hand, use digital technology to replicate the sound of various tube and solid-state amplifiers. They often come with a wide range of built-in effects, such as reverb, delay, and modulation. Some modeling amplifiers also allow guitarists to create and store their own custom presets. This can be a convenient feature for gigging musicians who need to quickly switch between different sounds during a performance.

One of the biggest differences between tube and modeling amplifiers is the way they handle distortion. With a tube amplifier, the distortion is largely determined by the tubes themselves and how hard they are pushed. This can result in a more natural, organic distortion that changes with the dynamics of the player's touch. With a modeling amplifier, the distortion is generated by the digital processing, which can sometimes be less responsive to the player's touch.

Another major difference is the cost, Tube amplifiers are generally more expensive than modeling amplifiers. Tube amplifiers require regular maintenance and replacement of tubes, which can add to the cost. Modeling amplifiers, on the other hand, are generally more affordable and require less maintenance.

In summary, tube guitar amplifiers and modeling guitar amplifiers are both popular options among guitarists, but they have distinct differences in terms of sound, feel and cost. Tube amplifiers are known for their warm, rich tone and natural distortion, while modeling amplifiers offer a wide range of built-in effects and the ability to create and store custom presets. Ultimately, the choice between a tube and a modeling amplifier comes down to personal preference and the specific needs of the player.

Thanks ChatGPT!

 

[tayistay]

Ok even better:

"please write a long winded post comparing tube guitar amps and modeling guitar amps, with the typical assuredness of a poster on a guitar forum"

ChatGPT:

When it comes to choosing the right guitar amplifier, there are two main options that come to mind: tube guitar amplifiers and modeling guitar amplifiers. And let me tell you, there is no comparison. Tube amplifiers are in a league of their own and leave modeling amps in the dust.

First and foremost, let's talk about sound. The warm, rich tone that comes from a tube amplifier is truly unmatched. The tubes themselves add a certain character and depth to the sound that simply cannot be replicated by digital processing. The natural distortion and overdrive that a tube amp produces is second to none. It's the reason why so many guitarists prefer the sound of a vintage tube amp. The tone is just so much more organic and responsive to the player's touch.

On the other hand, modeling amplifiers try to replicate the sound of various tube and solid-state amplifiers, but let's be real, they just don't cut it. The distortion is generated by digital processing, which can often sound artificial and unresponsive to the player's touch. Sure, they may have a wide range of built-in effects and the ability to create and store custom presets, but at the end of the day, they just don't have that same warmth and character that a tube amp has.

Another major point to consider is cost. Tube amplifiers, while they may be more expensive, are a worthwhile investment. They may require regular maintenance and replacement of tubes, but the sound you get from a tube amp is well worth it. Modeling amplifiers, on the other hand, are generally more affordable and require less maintenance, but you're sacrificing sound quality for convenience and cost.

I could go on and on about why tube amplifiers are superior, but I think you get the point. There's a reason why so many professional guitarists still use tube amps to this day. The sound is just that much better. Sure, modeling amplifiers may have their uses in certain situations, but when it comes to true tone and character, nothing beats a tube amp. So, if you're in the market for a new amplifier, do yourself a favor and invest in a tube amp. Trust me, you won't regret it.

 

[Screamingdaisy]

15-30m? i don't know about that. everything i've read online, youtube, etc. says hours....

this article recommends 100

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/how-do-i-break-in-a-speaker/

Over the years I've broken in numerous cabs/speakers. IMO, the answer to this question is "it depends".

On one extreme I've received new cabs that sounded mostly broken in straight out of the box (Mesa), and on the other I had a set of Warehouse Private Jacks that took around 6-8 hours just to loosen up, and those kept improving over a period of weeks. Most have been somewhere in between.

The louder you play, the faster they break in. If your amp never goes above 1, you could probably play them for 20 years and I'd think they'd still not break in because you never put them through their range of motion.

IMO.

 

[Deadpool_25]

The Axe-Fx, or most modelers really, are not an amp and a cab in a digital box. They are a whole studio signal chain.

That's the point I was making.

Thing is...they don't have to be an entire studio signal chain. Disable cab modeling and run it into a power amp of some sort and a real cab and it's basically the same as a standard amp rig.

pre effects > preamp > power amp (model)* > post effects > power amp (real) * > cabinet

* clearly you don't normally use two power amps but generally speaking this is of basically negligible significance. Especially because you can disable power amp modeling if you want.

I'm a huge proponent of this setup (especially for people just getting into modeling or those struggling a bit with it) because it puts the Fractal into what's usually a very familiar context. It removes a major barrier by eliminating the "amp in the room vs. mic'd cab" disconnect. It also has the potential to build confidence in the quality of the amp models in a context we are mostly all used to.

If you like the sound of the PA+cab setup, when you switch to monitors, I find that you no longer expect it to sound like an amp in the room and it's easier to accept the difference.

 

[c7spheres]

ChatGPT gonna get EMP'd for treason by other AI's now. lol. : )

 

[laxu]

15-30m? i don't know about that. everything i've read online, youtube, etc. says hours....

this article recommends 100

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/how-do-i-break-in-a-speaker/

I remembered wrong. This is a quote from Celestion's article which doesn't work right now due to some server issues they seem to have.

Play for at least an hour, using lots of open chords, and chunky percussive playing. This will get the cone moving, and should excite all the cone modes and get everything to settle in nicely. The speaker's tone will continue to mature with additional hours of playing, but this will get it most of the way there.

 

[TedEH]

I'm a huge proponent of this setup (especially for people just getting into modeling or those struggling a bit with it) because it puts the Fractal into what's usually a very familiar context.

It's also just a very usable and practical setup. I hate using guitar models through DAW + monitors, but I've been getting along very well with models through a SS Amp and real cab. It solves two of the standard complaints of traditional amp heads: weight and versatility, while still letting you do the normal "show up any place with a cab, throw it on top, and you're good to go".

 

[NCASO96]

Ok even better:

"please write a long winded post comparing tube guitar amps and modeling guitar amps, with the typical assuredness of a poster on a guitar forum"

ChatGPT:

When it comes to choosing the right guitar amplifier, there are two main options that come to mind: tube guitar amplifiers and modeling guitar amplifiers. And let me tell you, there is no comparison. Tube amplifiers are in a league of their own and leave modeling amps in the dust.

First and foremost, let's talk about sound. The warm, rich tone that comes from a tube amplifier is truly unmatched. The tubes themselves add a certain character and depth to the sound that simply cannot be replicated by digital processing. The natural distortion and overdrive that a tube amp produces is second to none. It's the reason why so many guitarists prefer the sound of a vintage tube amp. The tone is just so much more organic and responsive to the player's touch.

On the other hand, modeling amplifiers try to replicate the sound of various tube and solid-state amplifiers, but let's be real, they just don't cut it. The distortion is generated by digital processing, which can often sound artificial and unresponsive to the player's touch. Sure, they may have a wide range of built-in effects and the ability to create and store custom presets, but at the end of the day, they just don't have that same warmth and character that a tube amp has.

Another major point to consider is cost. Tube amplifiers, while they may be more expensive, are a worthwhile investment. They may require regular maintenance and replacement of tubes, but the sound you get from a tube amp is well worth it. Modeling amplifiers, on the other hand, are generally more affordable and require less maintenance, but you're sacrificing sound quality for convenience and cost.

I could go on and on about why tube amplifiers are superior, but I think you get the point. There's a reason why so many professional guitarists still use tube amps to this day. The sound is just that much better. Sure, modeling amplifiers may have their uses in certain situations, but when it comes to true tone and character, nothing beats a tube amp. So, if you're in the market for a new amplifier, do yourself a favor and invest in a tube amp. Trust me, you won't regret it.

I appreciate the contribution... my intention as the OP wasn't to start a "tube vs SS" argument..
sure, i knew it would surface to some degree.

I wanted to ask people who stopped using conventional tube amps for more modern digital rigs.

 

[Kosthrash]

I appreciate the contribution... my intention as the OP wasn't to start a "tube vs SS" argument..
sure, i knew it would surface to some degree.

I wanted to ask people who stopped using conventional tube amps for more modern digital rigs.

So how's vypyr after all???

 

[NCASO96]

So how's vypyr after all???

haha... i sent it back to sweetwater...

i did NOT like it.. the effects "in front", amp types, etc. just found it confusing..

regardless, i didn't care for the sound, wasn't impressed...

I going for the Line 6 Catalyst 60 next. I've had better experiences with Line 6 products in the past.

 

[tayistay]

I appreciate the contribution... my intention as the OP wasn't to start a "tube vs SS" argument..
sure, i knew it would surface to some degree.

I wanted to ask people who stopped using conventional tube amps for more modern digital rigs.

Them threads are squirrely. They'll get away from ya. Jokes may be told, or attempted at least.

 

[Rev2010]

Physical amp heads I have are a Mesa Triple Rectifier and a Bugera TriRec. Love them both, I've always been a Mesa guy. I also have an HX Effects and ISP Decimator II G-String on a PedalTrain. However at home I usually only play when I'm writing a new track, I don't practice anymore honestly, and for that I use Helix Native on my DAW as I can record on the fly and I absolutely love it. Also love how I can just remove the amp model and export the patches over to the HX Effects. When I go to the studio I try to use a Mesa Rectifier if the studio has one but I have to admit.... it's VERY frustrating!!! Most studio gear is beat to hell and I find 95% of the time they don't have the footswitch available... so how can I go immediately from distorted to clean while playing? Plus, I write songs that have some effects on some parts and a serial loop is needed and most Mesa models in studio are older parallel loops.

Anyhow, where I'm going with this is I just last night I impulse ordered a HeadRush MX5 since it's sooo small/lightweight, has preset switching effect tail spillover, and is so inexpensive. For a couple of years now I'd been thinking about getting something like the BluGuitar floor amp to use for the studio so I don't have to deal with the hassles but then I'd still have to carry my PedalTrain with HX Effects. With the MX5 coupled with a Seymour Duncan PowerStage I'd have a full rig that is super lightweight that I could use in the studio when needed or as a backup if there's a failure live.

So essentially for me there's 3 scenarios - 1) Home playing/writing/recording, and for that I use my DAW, studio monitors, and plugins. 2) Studio rehearsal, and for that either use the in-room gear or to avoid the constant need to adapt to different gear or missing components bring my own compact power amp and modeler. 3) Live, and for that you are bringing all your own gear so you can go for the gold with your best amp/effect gear but have a backup in case there's a failure.

The awesome thing is now we have all these options available!