To those that have moved on from a Tube amp to a SS/modeling rig.

MASS DEFECT

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But what's he record with?

Does it really matter at this point in time? We already know most pro digital rig players also have a Tube amp equivalent of their favorite "tone palette". I was just trying to say that modeling isn't that really bad and the tones are very serviceable and the feel is at least there to be good enough to tour with. I mean, it is not as sterile and lifeless as discussed.



To be fair, James does have a 4x12 on stage for those times he needs some feedback or whatever feel he needs. Old rig rundown covered this. And if I were a mega popular touring band like his, I'd probably do the same - easier for his crew (no tubes to maintain, swap out, etc), consistent sound night to night, you're hearing it mainly through a million watt PA, and the ability for things to get switched back stage, using effects, integration with FOH/soundboard... Probably all just MUCH easier. So yes, they have their place.

But as a personal player, I like my amp. But I realize that is just me, my opinion. Clearly some like their modeling setup. Sorry if I came across as saying modeling sucks or is no good. Not what I meant.

I agree here. I can't live without an onstage cab and I hate the sound of FRFR speakers. But the Line 6 Powercab 212 I tried for two gigs sounded huge and got some air and thump going.

But to a point, one can do a smaller Hetfield rig with just a power amp, modeler, cab, and a PA feed with IR. Best of both worlds, I guess. Just like their secret show here in a small bar. I don't even remember if he had a stage cab.

The FM9 was just too complicated for me. Got an FM3 but I'm spending more time with the Pod Go. Soooo much simpler to dial in.
 

MatrixClaw

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I tried, couldn't do it. Wasn't because there was a difference in sound (my FM3 proved several times that it could get an almost indistinguishable tone to my real amps, so much so that I sold several of them in favor of it), but because I just didn't find it as fun to use as a physical amp and pedals. If I was playing live still, there'd be no question. No way I'm lugging a half stack to practice and shows when modelers like the FM3/9 exist... But at home, I just didn't find it inspiring using the digital interface and 9 times out of 10, would reach to play the amp, while the Fractal just sat in the corner unused.
 

tayistay

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What frfr gets an amp-in-room sound? I’ve only tried the little headrush and meh (no detail in the highs). My monitors sounded better, but neither were amp-in-room. Happy with the recorded audio though. Plugins are great.
 

ExMachina

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What frfr gets an amp-in-room sound? I’ve only tried the little headrush and meh (no detail in the highs). My monitors sounded better, but neither were amp-in-room. Happy with the recorded audio though. Plugins are great.
None, it's just physics. You can get one that moves some air though to at least get that feeling.
 

4Eyes

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What frfr gets an amp-in-room sound? I’ve only tried the little headrush and meh (no detail in the highs). My monitors sounded better, but neither were amp-in-room. Happy with the recorded audio though. Plugins are great.
problem is - that magical "amp in the room" sound requires you standing next to the actual guitar cab. You can't get that feel and sound with you standing next to the frfr cab which is amplifying sound of the guitar cabinet recorded with microphones. I'm not saying it's bad, actually it's better sound, when used with right IR, because it's filtered from frequencies which don't do any good in the band mix. If you don't like "recorded" guitar sound don't bother with frfr and just get guitar cab.
 

technomancer

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Does it really matter at this point in time? We already know most pro digital rig players also have a Tube amp equivalent of their favorite "tone palette". I was just trying to say that modeling isn't that really bad and the tones are very serviceable and the feel is at least there to be good enough to tour with. I mean, it is not as sterile and lifeless as discussed.

You're assuming that the primary concern in the decision for Metallica is the tone and not ending up with thousands more on the bottom line from saved shipping / setup costs on a world tour :2c:
 

MatrixClaw

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What frfr gets an amp-in-room sound? I’ve only tried the little headrush and meh (no detail in the highs). My monitors sounded better, but neither were amp-in-room. Happy with the recorded audio though. Plugins are great.
The Line 6 PowerCab is the closest I got, but it still didn't sound as good as a power amp into a real guitar cab.
 

budda

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Once again gonna say if you skip “in the room” and ask yourself “does this sound good?” You’ll probably be fine with frfr etc.

I went from headphones only to a 5150 in the room + headphones and shock and awe - still no issues with headphone sounds :lol:
 

tayistay

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Once again gonna say if you skip “in the room” and ask yourself “does this sound good?” You’ll probably be fine with frfr etc.
It does sound good through my monitors. Just not as good as through the amp :)

I went from headphones only to a 5150 in the room + headphones and shock and awe - still no issues with headphone sounds :lol:
Why were you wearing headphones with the 5150?

I've never enjoyed playing guitar through headphones (high gain at least). It always sounds fatiguing (volume not high either).
 

budda

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No headphones with the 5150. Saying amp in the room has no bearing on my enjoyment.
 

GunpointMetal

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I am 100% convinced that people not enjoying modelers but somehow still enjoying recorded music are reallllly overthinking the devices. When you get an amp and cab you pick out things based on your preferences, and you turn knobs until it sounds good to you in the room. For modeling you pick an amp and cab based on your preferences, and you turn the knobs until it sounds good through whatever you're playing through. If the (real) amp and cab you picked don't sound good, you pick something else, or you add something to fix the issue (EQ/Boost/ETC). If the (modeled) amp and cab you picked don't sound good, you pick something else, or you add something to fix the issue. That's it. That's whole process. There's no special magic to making a modeler/sim sound good, and you don't need an engineering degree any more than you do for an amp and cab. If you wouldn't mess around with internal components of a real amp, don't mess around with the extended parameters in a modeler. The only "hard" part (and that's in quotes because its not hard, and should be obvious, but isn't to a lot of people for some reason) is understanding that guitar cabinets are inherently awful speaker systems but they have a specific way of moving air, and a modeler with FRFR/studio monitors/headphones actually does sound just like an amp and cab, but its an amp and cab captured with a microphone and played back through a more articulate speaker system, so it isn't going to move air the same way and expecting it to is user error. If you want the sound of a cab behind you, put a cab behind you. A full-range system is never going to be a guitar cab based purely on physics and driver selection.
 

MatrixClaw

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Once again gonna say if you skip “in the room” and ask yourself “does this sound good?” You’ll probably be fine with frfr etc.

I went from headphones only to a 5150 in the room + headphones and shock and awe - still no issues with headphone sounds :lol:
I liked playing my FM3 through headphones 1000x better than through an FRFR system.
 

Shask

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It does sound good through my monitors. Just not as good as through the amp :)


Why were you wearing headphones with the 5150?

I've never enjoyed playing guitar through headphones (high gain at least). It always sounds fatiguing (volume not high either).
Adding a Studio Sub to my monitors helped a lot for me. Helps bring the low end rumble that is missing.
 

CrushingAnvil

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Adding a Studio Sub to my monitors helped a lot for me. Helps bring the low end rumble that is missing.
Not sure what modeler/plugin you're using, but did you try running a parametric EQ before the output and boosting 110hz? I've been doing that for months and it sounds good to me.
 

Shask

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Not sure what modeler/plugin you're using, but did you try running a parametric EQ before the output and boosting 110hz? I've been doing that for months and it sounds good to me.
Ive done that, but its not the same. Its not just a bass EQ thing, its a depth thing. The way the low end compresses and chugs.

When I run it into a 412 cab, I do lowpass the low end around 280hz though. Helps make it more like an amp. I am using an Axe FX II and a FM3.
 

budda

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Ive done that, but its not the same. Its not just a bass EQ thing, its a depth thing. The way the low end compresses and chugs.

When I run it into a 412 cab, I do lowpass the low end around 280hz though. Helps make it more like an amp. I am using an Axe FX II and a FM3.
Have you done the low resonance thing in the speaker tab of the amp page?
 

4Eyes

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Ive done that, but its not the same. Its not just a bass EQ thing, its a depth thing. The way the low end compresses and chugs.
exactly, I hi-pass my guitars at 100-120db anyway (12db/oct slope, depending on a cab and mic) , but sub definitely helps to add some depth to the chugs. Maybe it's not the sub itself which takes care of the little remaining lows, but the fact that woofers on the monitors can breathe more in low mid area, where major part of guitars low end sit.

but speaking of getting the flavour of "amp in the room" type of sound with IRs, I remember that blending in ribbon mic, and/or mic from behind of the cab to complement your traditional dynamic mic of your preference might help, but it's a bit tricky to get the levels just right for the tone to be still band mix friendly
 


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