tips on taming treble from SS frets?

Discussion in 'Sevenstring Guitars' started by soldierkahn, Oct 9, 2019.

  1. Randy

    Randy Sous Chef Super Moderator

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    This guy gets it.
     
  2. Vyn

    Vyn Not a Sparkly Vampire

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    If you're willing to ship it to Australia I can A/B it with one of the standard ones :p

    Seriously though, even the standard nickle version is a bright guitar, especially on the treble strings. Doubt it's the fret material.
     
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  3. odibrom

    odibrom .

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    ... besides strings, for those that may have a reference string set, changing pots for some with lower value could be an idea to tame the perceived excess treble.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
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  4. Soya

    Soya Poor person

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    Or even just slightly changing the value of the capacitor on the tone pot.
     
  5. Albake21

    Albake21 "Just get a used Ibanez Prestige."

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    Do SS frets actually effect tone? Possibly? Considering how many tiny factors like strings, nut, picks, etc. I wouldn't be surprised. With that said though, there's no way SS frets are going to change a tone to the point of not being able to EQ or change your amp's setting to compensate. I'd try different factors before blaming frets.
     
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  6. A-Branger

    A-Branger SS.org Regular

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    because it must be the wood of the fretboard... remember that ebony is "snappy" and rosewood is "warm"
    Im surprised they havent talked about the neck joint construction as the reason lol


    the SS frets might do add a little bit of extra treble. but its the frets, fretboard wood wont affect your sound




    here, a proof that SS do change in sound, shame its sigle coil clean only, but there must be a change with high gain humbuckers too. But a small change, nothing a quick EQ can fix, and a change that would be gone out of the window once the drummer starts blasting away

    plus there would be many other factors in the guitar that would affect the sound in order to narrow it down to just the frets
     
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  7. mlp187

    mlp187 Burrito Master Contributor

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    Full disclosure: I didn't watch the whole video, just the description of the experiment and some playing.

    Did the warmoth guy mention anything about the string change between necks?

    There is clearly an audible difference, but it is not necessarily the frets nor is it necessarily the frets. I think maximum torque applied to the neck bolts is important. That being said, this is the best test i've seen so far, although far from properly scientific.
     
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  8. xzacx

    xzacx SS.org Regular

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    This video is worthless as a “clinical test” like it claims. It’s two different necks—of course they sound a little different. There’s no way to attribute it to the frets when other factors have changed.
     
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  9. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    If...IF they had several guitars of each setup, and could show that the characteristic demonstrated is carrying through multiple examples, then that would go a long way.

    I am often amused when seeing posts that are like, "Sure this guitar has a different neck construction, scale length, bridge, saddles, lipstick single coils instead of humbuckers, brass nut, body wood, neck wood, top vs no-top...but clearly the reason this guitar sounds like it does, compared to my other one, is because of the maple fretboard. I've never had a maple fretboard before, so that must be it." I'm not saying that this is necessarily one like that, but it's amazing how often it comes up.
     
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  10. soldierkahn

    soldierkahn BAD MAMMA-JAMMA Contributor

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    Ive noticed that too, exactly how you described each of the three. I was expecting the Black Heaven 7s to sound fairly close to the way the 6s versions do and for the most part, they nailed it. In the 6s, the highs and high-mids were definitely there, but they werent too harsh and manageable. But for some reason, my 2027XLS is the brightest sounding guitar I have. The only other guitar that hit my ears the same harsh way was the RGA6UCS. even when I popped a BH in to test after taking the BKP Aftermaths it came with out, it just flooded my amp with tons of treble. So in my head, the only characteristic the two share is an ebony board and ss frets, so thats the first things I started looking at to see whats responsible.
     
  11. possumkiller

    possumkiller SS.org Regular

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    Some skilled luthier type needs to refret every second fret on a neck with ss and the others with nickel.
     
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  12. soldierkahn

    soldierkahn BAD MAMMA-JAMMA Contributor

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    Im on the same page as you, i think theres a VERY close relationship between the High knob and the Presence. Even in my particular amp (Line 6 Spider Valve MKII) which is a hybrid with a digital preamp through a tube power amp, the relationship between the two knobs are crucial. As far as strings are concerned, i swear by Stringjoy strings so that I can customize my string to string tension, but I havent been able to pickup a set for it yet. Ive definitely got a few more things that I can try changing out to help battle the highs so I havent given up on it yet. The XLS was supposed to come setup/intonated for A standard with the gauges I specified and were based on what I had been using on my 1077XL, but thats not what I received. The tech instead set it up for B standard with an unknown gauge, but its much lighter than what i personally use for B standard. The frets looked like they had been tended to (which was a relief) but theres no way that the intonation was set for it. Im not trying to put anyone on blast, shit happens, im just trying to share my observations. Now I dont know if it was store policy that the truss rod be completely loosened while leaving it tuned up for shipping, but when I went to make my first truss rod adjustment I found that it was almost loose enough to rattle. That definitely concerns me because if my thinking is right, even though it was setup for a different string gauge and tuning then the one i requested, all that work was erased when the truss rod was loosened that far. Itll be further negated when I change out the strings to play in A standard, but at least ill be able to compare the tone i remember from my 1077XL with Fluences with the 2027XLS Black Heavens' tone. I disliked the Fluences in the 1077XL for anything higher than A standard, and Im just hoping this guitar doesnt share the same fate. The DCM's tone, even with the Retribution pickup, sounded amazing through the same setup im currently using, so thats why i keep referring to it as my "known good" lol.
     
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  13. soldierkahn

    soldierkahn BAD MAMMA-JAMMA Contributor

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    oh yeah, I was able to test that theory out because both of my RG970XLs serial numbers are less than 50 in difference IIRC. When I tested them with the same gauge string (i used the same exact set for buth guitars), in the same tuning, the same bridge pickup connected to the same volume pot. The only component i didnt change was the input jacks. I used my old Looping pedal to record a phrase with the first guitar, then set it to standby while i switched everything out. When I came back with guitar B and played through the same signal chain, id start the loop back up to compare the tones. While the differences werent dramatic, it was definitely noticeable. Hell, my two 6s Black Heaven ceramic bridge pups are the same model, but each one is slightly different. Again, not a dramatic difference, but noticeable.

    I also wonder if maybe the wiring could be responsible too, since all my others work just fine. I could have also shot myself in the foot when I removed the tone pot from the circuit after my initial review was finished, but i really dont want to have to put it back if I dont have to.
     
  14. soldierkahn

    soldierkahn BAD MAMMA-JAMMA Contributor

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    Cheers! Im a tiny bit different, all I ever play are either 26.5" scale or 27" scale. My name is Adam and Im a baritonaholic lol.. I was under the impression that if the pickups werent too harsh in both my 27" scale RG970XL 6strings made of basswood, theyd be similarly voiced in the 7 string with that scale/wood combo. The only difference I can see is that the Black Heavens that are in my 970XL guitars have the black nickel cover to them, and the 7 string version does not.
     
  15. soldierkahn

    soldierkahn BAD MAMMA-JAMMA Contributor

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    none of my guitars have a tone pot in the circuit. i never take them lower than full, so i usually remove and put the volume pot in its place to also keep it out of the way
     
  16. soldierkahn

    soldierkahn BAD MAMMA-JAMMA Contributor

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    its this exact reason that I came here to ask the questions to our huge group, thank you guys for all the ideas/perspectives. Yes, I even laughed when people asked why i dont use the eq knobs on the amp lol.

    Im still head over heels for the XLS, but my mind is always thinking about which necks are as comfortable or better than the 1077XL's neck. does anybody have a basswood RGD 7 string with the Black Heavens installed? I remembered that my 27" scale 6 strings were bright and snappy, while the 26.5" RGD was just a little bit "warmer" so to speak? So Id be curious to hear how they sound in a 26.5" RGD7.
     
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  17. Avedas

    Avedas SS.org Regular

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    A maxed out potentiometer still has non-trivial resistance though.
     
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  18. soldierkahn

    soldierkahn BAD MAMMA-JAMMA Contributor

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    so removing the tone pot from the circuit completely could cause this dramatic of a difference? just playing devil's advocate here, shouldnt the same thing have occured with my 970XLs and RGD when I took their tone pots out? Just curious
     
  19. Avedas

    Avedas SS.org Regular

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    That would depend entirely on the rest of the electronics in the guitar, but yes it can be dramatic. Some people have a dummy pot installed to mimic a maxed tone pot without actually having a tone pot in the guitar.
     
  20. odibrom

    odibrom .

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    I'd say so. removing a pot out of the circuit does interfere with the tone, even comparing it full on and out. best way to test this is to add a toggle switch to remove turn it on/off, when off, it should be completely out of the circuit.

    I've been in a path of changing my main guitars' tones from the last 2 years now. I changed pickups for some made to measure AlNiCo medium to high output pickups. I used DiMarzios before (Blaze Custom/Neck, D-Sonic, Air Norton, DAs, EVO7, which are all ceramic and high output) and the difference was night and day in clarity. I also changed the volume pots to 1M ohms instead of the common 500K so you see, my guitars are quite bright. One of them "lost" the tone pots (for mags and piezos) because I couldn't find a double concentric pot with 1M in one of the pots. It sounds a little harsher than the others, but it also has lots of other differences. Strings are all the same sets (gauge included), D'Addario's XLs.

    This to say that introducing or removing a pot from the circuit changes the tone, swapping a pot for a new one, even with the "same" value changes the tone a little, but that could be enough for you to notice and feel it different.

    When I'm evaluating a guitar, I always look for the guitar's setup, hardware/build quality and play/comfort (regardless of its setup), because sound wise it can change a LOT with fine tuning of electronics...

    My opinion on your problem is to check for comfort and play. It sure is a well built instrument and looks to be easy to dial in the desired "mechanical" setup. If it suits your personal ergonomic and aesthetic needs, I'd say keep it. Sound wise is a matter of trial and error until you find the right spot of things: strings, pickups choice, pickups' setup (overall distance to strings is pretty damn important in a pickups reaction and sound, and do not neglect its poles), circuit components...
     

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