Thinking about GGD modern and massive software

Discussion in 'Recording Studio' started by vejichan, Nov 30, 2019.

  1. vejichan

    vejichan SS.org Regular

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    I own ez drummer 2 made of metal, metal and metal machine expansion packs. I love how easy it is to get a drum sound in my songs. 5 minutes and I am done. Basically i choose a midi loop and have ez drummer select the drums and fills and done. 5minutes. Keep in mind I only play guitars and know nothing about playing or programming or tweaking drums. I do like how GGD sound in all these youtube videos but would GGD be good for a beginner like me? I would like to take advantage of the sale but I dont want to end up with a complicated drum software and end up not using it..any advice or direction is appreciated..thanns
     
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  2. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    So, again, you also posted this on a Facebook Reaper group, and got a ton of responses that basically all concluded that Kontact isn't as user-fgriendly as EzDrummer 2 when it comes to generating drum tracks, and since you're already happy with how these kits sound and don't want to spend more time actually constructing drum performances yourself, there's no upside and lots of downside.

    Broken record here, but if you took all the time you spend now cross-posting questions about software and worrying if you're using the best possible tools out there, and instead dedicated that time to learning how to use the tools you had, working on your mixes, and practicing the guitar, you'd likely get far better results than you do now. Or, at a minimum, you'd have a lot more time to produce recordings of your music, which is your ultimate goal here.

    I'm saying this from what I hope is a good place, so I apologize if it comes across as a little brusque, but it seems like you're suffering from analysis paralysis here, and that your fixation on finding a new VST or a new amp model or new drum kit sound pack or new plugin or whatver is actively getting in the way of your ability to actually create music. Maybe take a 6-month moratorium on thinking about new amp models or drum kits or plugins and asking people for advice, and over those six months just spend your time writing and recording as much music as you can in your free time, and after that time come back and listen to your last mix you've been sharing around here, and compare that to the most recent track you'd recorded, and see what you've learned and what sounds better to you. I think it'd be a really empowering process for you, and you'll never learn as much about recording and mixing as you do by actually doing it.

    At the end of the day, having the best possible drum sample pack or 5150 model matters a lot less than having experience using a drumkit in a mix or dialing in a 5150 to get the closest to the sound you're hearing in your head.
     
  3. vejichan

    vejichan SS.org Regular

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    Thanks Drew for the advice. Unfortunately since I am barely home due to my busy schedule all I can do is read info and learn on my daily 3hr commute to work. I wish there was a way to bring my guitar on the train. Alot can be done in 3hrs of recording. Most of my recording is usually done at 2am when family is asleep and the recording are using 30min because I am so exhausted and tired.
     
  4. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Study theory on the train? Read a book on audio production on the train? There's a number of good ones out there. And maybe there's some way you CAN get your guitar on the train to practice, even if recording isn't practical.

    Asking a ton of questions, but not actually applying any of the advice you're getting, is a total waste of time, both yours and the people answering your questions. If that's what you're spending your time doing on the train, I'd argue maybe you'd be better off spending that time looking for a new job closer to home or with better hours, so you DO have more time to spend actually making music. If you're spending 30 minutes a night recording while you're so tired you can barely keep your eyes open, does it REALLY matter which 5150 VST you're using, or which drum sample kit?
     
  5. coffeeflush

    coffeeflush SS.org Regular

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    They are right you know
    What you need is more time spend recording
    If not then, then be more precise what tone you want and work your way to that.
     
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  6. Politics of Ecstasy

    Politics of Ecstasy OG Shredder

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    I’m in a similar boat, and everyone is right....you need to get to work

    Literally, same problem: I have SD2 /metal foundry, metal machines and the Meshuggah Ezx, and there are also tones of midi packs and grooves I got from other kits like XLN and what not....

    I found a perfect drum sound, and I love the metal foundry with either Texas metal, Bleed, or the other preset mixes, are really not bad

    What my issue is? I’m having trouble making fluid sounding drum grooves,and I’m just patching....meaning I’m copying and pasting verse by verse, chorus by chorus, but making it sound organic isnt easy..it is still a drum machine in the end

    Only way to jump this hurdle, is keep writing and recording till you get your workflow, and that takes your own time and work to figure out

    Thats what I’m learning now that i have to do the same

    Good luck my friend, and if you get any shortcuts , i could use it too lol!
     
  7. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Really, there are no shortcuts, is the sad reality.

    You near as I can tell are setting your objective here as to be able to produce professional-quality, modern, slick, really clean mixes. And the tools you have at your disposal, even if you just limited yourself to the stock Reaper plugins and a copy of EzDrummer 2, as well as a good amp VST, are certainly good enough that you CAN get there.

    But, you're trying to produce the kind of quality of work that guys who do this stuff 40 hours a week for the past decade or two of their lives produce. To be able to consistently produce that quality of work takes a TON of experience, hours and hours and hours of critical listening to develop your ear, and intimate knowledge of how the tools you have to work with respond.

    And it's not the kind of knowledge and experience that can be distilled to a template where you drop in a guitar DI, some bass and drum MIDI, and boom! you have a killer mix. Even little things like a guitar tuned to E standard and riffing in E is going to pose different challenges and sit in a slightly different space in the mix than a seven string in B standard riffing in C#. I don't know if the link is still active, but in that awesome Slipperman thead I stickied at the top of this forum ages ago he jokes something to the effect that he can nail guys to the wall ten times out of ten with the difference between 48 and 52hz on a kick drum. SO much depends on your source sounds, the timbre and tuning of your guitar, the output of your pickups, etc. You can't just have someone else make you a template and routinely churn out mixes that sound like Bob Rock by dropping in files and hitting export.

    Even things like drum and bass programming... Can't speak for bass since I've always played my own, but drum programming, I must have spent something like 100 hours working on the drum programming for my last album, and my goal was just to get it to the part where the drums were good enough that you didn't notice them. The roots-rock/acoustic project I did a while back with my dad and uncle, it was probably more like a third to a half of that, because I DID learn a lot on the last album and I've gotten better at it (experience matters). But, getting really natural sounding sequenced drums takes a LOT of time and experience, spent tinkering with velocities and articulations and really thinking about how a drummer might physically play something (best thing I ever did for my ability to program drums was learn how to play some rudimentary drum stuff), and simply buying a new sample pack isn't going to unlock some magical "realism" setting.

    Listen, I know this isn't the answer you're looking for, and you want a Staples-like "Easy" button for mixing and recording where if you do these three weird tricks that pro engineers don't want you to know about you'll have a killer mix... but music doesnt work that way. If that's what you're looking for, then just buy a copy of EzMix and use that, it won't sound "totally pro" but it'll sound pretty good if you just rely on their presets, and it'll save you a lot of time and money and frustration. I'm telling you this not to be rude, but because I'm really trying to help you here. What you need isn't new software or a new plugin, what you need is experience.
     
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  8. vejichan

    vejichan SS.org Regular

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    Unfortunatley the sad reality is I simply dont have the time. The time to record, practice etc. 90 percent of my time is work, wife and kids . What I do have time for is reading. There is alot of time spent on my mac and phone on the train, lunch, waiting etc. I am actually contemplating buying a strandberg and have it with me everywhere I go. Thanks for your advice and input. I wish I had all this tech 25 years ago when I all I did was play guitar 24/7 ...unfortunately all I did was play covers and practice technique etc to paul Gilbert's and vinnie moore reh instructional videos.
     
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  9. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    But, I guess my point here, is if you have such limited time, it becomes more important to use it in ways that are really beneficial. If you're using it to read about and ask questions about which piece of software you should buy to make really awesome mixes, you're wasting that time, and you don't have time to waste.

    Honestly, if you can't practice on your train ride (guitar, mixing or sequencing on a laptop with headphones, whatever), then I'd use that time to look for a job where you'll be happier (you've posted threads about this before as well), and where you DO have the time to practice guitar and mixing.

    Because, if guitar and recording/production are so important to you, but at the same time you don't have any time to dedicate to them... You're always going to be frustrated, no matter WHAT else you do.
     
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  10. vejichan

    vejichan SS.org Regular

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    Also I have gear acquisition syndrome..always looking to buy new gear, software haha..its a neverending search and has cost me alot of money. I used to buy amps and custom guitars etc now it's all about software.
     
  11. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    This is a friendly, polite reminder that GAS is something that will burn through a lot of money, and isn't going to do a damned thing to help you hit your musical goals. :)

    Eyes on the prize. Decide what your goals are, figure out the most direct way to get there (hint: it's not buying a new software drum kit), and take the most diurect and immediate steps you can to get to those goals.

    What are you trying to acheive? What's your goal as a musican, engineer, or a guitarist? The ultimate goal, not a step towards achieving that goal.
     
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  12. isispelican

    isispelican SS.org Regular

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    Once you set everything up in kontakt and save some basic presets and templates it's really fast to load a kit and get going. As much as I love toontrack for all they have accomplished, I have to say that ggd absolutely blows them away.
     
  13. ghostOG

    ghostOG SS.org Regular

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    If you like the sound of your drum kit and just want to drag and drop midi tracks, ezdrummer should be fine... you could buy more midi packs and expand your drum grooves library.

    You might have to map your new midi tracks to the right hits on your drum kit... so the kick triggers don't go to the snare channel for example, but it's not hard just a little tedious maybe.

    I have not used ezdrummer but if you want to go deeper, there should be some basic way of creating and editing midi tracks... placing hits on a time grid and setting velocity. You can even write drum parts in tab software like guitar pro or tuxguitar and export to midi.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019 at 4:40 PM
  14. noise in my mind

    noise in my mind SS.org Regular

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    New gear won't make you better. Practice will. I still use drum software from 12 years ago, and I fool my pro drummer friends all the time. They say "who played drums on this?" and I go "It's just old school dfh superior lol."
     
  15. ScatteredDimension

    ScatteredDimension Sixstring Regular

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    All of Drew's answers are really awesome and I can't really add anything more to it... Only thing is that since I relate to your problems is you can ask yourself: If you now had the perfect template with insane mixes whenever you start you DAW is, what next? What's the next step from that?

    I too tend to want to have a good sounding drums (a template from previous song etc.) from the start. Even if I want to write a new song and start a new project, but then I realise I'm tweaking the drums instead of COMPOSING, which was my intention in the first place. But if you really wan't to get the best sounding mixes with the time you have, you will just have to do it in very small pieces... One day is for kick drum mixing, then the other is for snare, third for toms, cymbals etc... Or then try to manage your situation for the better in future.

    I personally never use the ready midi tracks from ezdrummer and I don't want to use them. I make the drums from scratch ( which also takes time) but at least they are my "own" midi tracks :) and you also learn about velocities etc...

    Spending hours just tweaking a mix (mostly drums) for a hobby sometimes is not that much fun really, and it can get quite obsessive (not enjoyable at all) at times... At the moment I rather spend the time practicing the guitar, but this applies only to my situation of course.
     

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