The Tube Thread

[TheWarAgainstTime]

What's a good KT88/6550 brand? I'm thinking about swapping the 6L6s in my Revv because I have more than enough 6L6 amps.

No complaints with the EHX KT88 sets I've had

JJ ones sound good too, but have a bit less high end. Also, I don't know if it's typical of the JJ models, but my set makes a lot of rattling noise whenever I record with a load box. Not an issue through a cabinet, but kind of annoying when I'm trying to record silently

 

[Mourguitars]

Been tube rolling, ...again.

Ceriatone 800 with the PPI-MV/LAR mod...

Mullard I63 in V1 was sweet-smooth- very buttery or creamy best way to describe it...unlike the Chinese 12AX7 that was on the brighter side and more gain. I tried lots of different tubes NOS and Current production but settled on a Amperex/Canada in V1

V2.....I put a Rogers/Canada , i believe its a Amperex as well....both of these tubes in V1-V2 really make this 800 really sing with a SD-1 boosting it...really love the tone

V3....tried lots of tubes..12AX7LPS, current JJ's, ECC803....but a ECC83 Ei Yugoslavia rounded out the line up...man is that a sweet tube in that position

Put some Apex Matched JJ's EL34's it biased perfect, sounded a little brighter and tighter that the old Svetlana's El34's...it seemed like those tubes had more sag maybe ??

Anyway, i buttoned it up...been rocking it and really digging that 800 sound....it sounds great with all my Guitars. I do change boost pedals if i need more gain, but i like the 800 sound

Tubes really made a difference in this amp.....i can get more gain by putting a Chinese square getter 12AX7 in V1 but i wanted a nice mid gain tube platform and boost if i need more gain.

The NOS tubes made me a believer .....they are very sweet in tone...

Mike

 

[c7spheres]

- Got some Mullard Reissue EL34's for my VHT 2-50-2 to check out.
- I'm desperately searching for an acceptable (and less expensive) SED Winged-C (=C=) replacement. They are just really expensive nowadays.
- I can see why these are the recommended =C= replacement and why Fryette uses them now. They sound very similar, but respond a bit different to dynamics.
- They seem about 15% less dynamic (random guess)
- The sound stage is a little narrower also and the noise floor is increased too, but not enough to be annoying. I'd guess maybe about 4-6db louder and the sound stage is maybe 10% narrower. Again all subjective impressions.
- The Mid's are more pronounced and smooth and a bit more "chewy" yet still have bit and cut. They would probably cut a lot better in a mix than the =C=. The highs are nothing special for me and smoother too and the bass is a lot tighter and less boomy but with less "clang" to them than the =C= .
- My guess is most people would probably actually prefer these to the =C= because of these features. They certainly get you more into that flat zone and ready to record or go to PA easier.
- The Mullards certainly break up and saturate way faster than the =C= also. Like way faster. I can get to the volume I want before saturation, but just barely. Once they do break up though they are really good. The tone and sustain stays intact and it's a really pleasant saturation. Once they saturate though there's basically not much left in them in terms of volume of punch. That's basically what your gonna get it seems.
- In comparison to the plain old JJ EL34's (black base, not the EL34L) They are almost right in between the =C= and the JJ EL34. The mids seem about the same tonally but louder. The JJ's have more bass than these Mullards (though not as much as the =C=) and the JJ's are more shrill on the high end. These Mullards have a tone of high end but none of it seems harsh at all. The highs are very smooth. To the point you may not be able to get it as piercing as you'd want. The JJ's low end is in between the =C= and the Mullards.
- These Mullards seem very low in harmonic content. I don't get all those swirlys happening like I do in the =C=.
- Overall I think the Mullard reissue EL34's are a great tube but also kind of sterile. It's almost like my amp got turned into a solid state but retained a lot of the good tube characteristics. For saturation tones though I think they seem really nice.
- The comparisons I made with the =C= were using my VHT 2-50-2 in both class-A and Class a/b modes and mixing them too at times. The a/b bias for each was set to around 35ma and the VHT was putting out about 500v. In class-a the VHT is a cathode bias and the Mullards read at 83ma and the =C= read at 92ma.
I also tried rolling the driver stage tubes between JAN Phillips 12au7's, JJ ecc82's, and Ruby (Shuguang) 12u7's as well. The phase inverter used was a Shuguang Ruby 12ax7a and amp was set to 8ohms into both a Sequis Motherload fully loaded and also four 2x12's loaded with EV Force 12's (guitar/not PA version).
-
In conclusion these are great tubes that most people would probably love and maybe even like more than the =C= but since I've been spoled all these years using =C= I really do prefer them over the Mullards so much that I'm gonna sell these and buy some more, but for the price I don't know if these can be beat. I'm currently looking at the Shuguang Preferred Series as I hear good things about those too. I really would love to find an equal or better than =C= replacement for less money though.

 

[drgordonfreeman]

Is there a current production tube resembling anything close to the sound of the Mullard I61?

 

[Emperoff]

Is there a current production tube resembling anything close to the sound of the Mullard I61?

Not a chance.

 

[wheresthefbomb]

Got down a rabbit hole of replacing preamp and PI tubes.

I bought a Sovtek 12ax7 LPS for the PI spot in my X100b because the internet told me it might give me more headroom and better bass response. I can't say for sure if it did that or not but it definitely made the amp more musical at high volume.

Tried a few others in various spots and it made no appreciable difference, ended up sticking with the Tung Sol set everywhere else.

 

[USMarine75]

Anyone else try JJ 6V6 tubes? Bought them for my Kasha Evil Robot and they are harsh AF. I have a pedestrian ear but these sound like garbage.

FWIW this was the Tube Depot description - "This is the newly released 6V6 that we have been waiting for. With a robust tone and great overhead - this may be one of the best sounding new production 6V6 available. Having a spiral filament - this tube is able to withstand the high voltages that some other 6V6 cannot."

 

[Emperoff]

Got down a rabbit hole of replacing preamp and PI tubes.

I bought a Sovtek 12ax7 LPS for the PI spot in my X100b because the internet told me it might give me more headroom and better bass response. I can't say for sure if it did that or not but it definitely made the amp more musical at high volume.

Tried a few others in various spots and it made no appreciable difference, ended up sticking with the Tung Sol set everywhere else.

If you really want lots of bass response, try to find an RCA 5751 3-Mica Black Plate for V1. Those things have massive low end extension.

The Sovtek LPS works well as a PI tube mainly because it can't work anywhere else, as they get microphonic just by looking at them

 

[USMarine75]

If you really want lots of bass response, try to find an RCA 5751 3-Mica Black Plate for V1. Those things have massive low end extension.

Whew... $150 for a preamp tube though.

 

[Emperoff]

Whew... $150 for a preamp tube though.

You can find them for way less. I have one for sale at 85€. Definetely not cheap, though. These are from the 50s, and very scarce. Early Sylvanias are even more expensive (Gold Pin and blackplate military models).

Still, NOS 5751 tubes are way less expensive than "holy grail" 12AX7s. I've seen Mullards go at 4 figures). Funny enough old 5751 tubes were very rugged, with extra mica spacers, metal supporting rods, etc. Which makes them a much better tube for guitar amplifiers (unless gain reserve is limited).

To me there is no reason tu use something like Gold Lions at 45$ a pop when you can grab RFTs at 30 bucks. No need to go straight to the premium ones. I sure don't for my live amps, since I use 212 combos which are tube torture chambers . I've got one loaded with RFTs and the other with GE 5751s, both cheap and easy to find NOS tubes

 

[drgordonfreeman]

What are Gold Lions value proposition? As I understand it, they just take the same current production tubes everyone else has and relabel them Gold Lion

 

[Emperoff]

What are Gold Lions value proposition? As I understand it, they just take the same current production tubes everyone else has and relabel them Gold Lion

That's exactly what they are. There are only three tube factories in the world, and these are made by New Sensor(Sovtek/EHX). They're a rellabeled EHX gold pin model, IIRC. Same as the Mullard reissue is a renamed Sovtek LPS (at 2-3 times the price), and so on.

The only current production tube that is a step-up in quality over the rest is the new JJ E83CC. Apparently they managed to recreate the frame grid construction of the old Teslas (arguable one of the best preamp tubes ever made). So it's refreshing to see a tube factory actually bothering in improving their products after decades of accepting shit as "the new standard" from every tube manufacturer.

Can't wait to see a TAD, Ruby or GT version of it at 50€...

 

[USMarine75]

That's exactly what they are. There are only three tube factories in the world, and these are made by New Sensor(Sovtek/EHX). They're a rellabeled EHX gold pin model, IIRC. Same as the Mullard reissue is a renamed Sovtek LPS (at 2-3 times the price), and so on.

The only current production tube that is a step-up in quality over the rest is the new JJ E83CC. Apparently they managed to recreate the frame grid construction of the old Teslas (arguable one of the best preamp tubes ever made). So it's refreshing to see a tube factory actually bothering in improving their products after decades of accepting shit as "the new standard" from every tube manufacturer.

Can't wait to see a TAD, Ruby or GT version of it at 50€...

Wait... are you saying there's nothing unobtanium about my Genalex Gold Lion KT77s? They have "beautiful artwork" on the glass, man. And they did make my Victory RK50C sound really ridiculously good IMO (stock comes with EL34, but can take 6L6/KT66 too).

https://tubedepot.com/products/genalex-gold-lion-kt77-power-vacuum-tube

 

[technomancer]

That's exactly what they are. There are only three tube factories in the world, and these are made by New Sensor(Sovtek/EHX). They're a rellabeled EHX gold pin model, IIRC. Same as the Mullard reissue is a renamed Sovtek LPS (at 2-3 times the price), and so on.

The only current production tube that is a step-up in quality over the rest is the new JJ E83CC. Apparently they managed to recreate the frame grid construction of the old Teslas (arguable one of the best preamp tubes ever made). So it's refreshing to see a tube factory actually bothering in improving their products after decades of accepting shit as "the new standard" from every tube manufacturer.

Can't wait to see a TAD, Ruby or GT version of it at 50€...

Partially right, there are only 3 tube manufacturers (and IIRC Shuguang is currently moving their factory so only 2 right now) however you're off in that they don't each just make one or two variety of tube and then people rebadge them. Most of the reissue stuff are actually different designs being made in the same factory. For example, again IIRC, the Tung Sol and Mullard EL34 reissues are distinctly different tubes even though they are both out of the Russian (Sverlana?) factory and sold by the same company.

Some like TAD or Ruby you're paying for testing and increased quality control.

 

[Emperoff]

Partially right, there are only 3 tube manufacturers (and IIRC Shuguang is currently moving their factory so only 2 right now) however you're off in that they don't each just make one or two variety of tube and then people rebadge them. Most of the reissue stuff are actually different designs being made in the same factory. For example, again IIRC, the Tung Sol and Mullard EL34 reissues are distinctly different tubes even though they are both out of the Russian (Sverlana?) factory and sold by the same company.

Some like TAD or Ruby you're paying for testing and increased quality control.

I was talking about preamp tubes, and in this case the Mullard (long plate) is a rebadged Sovtek LPS. TAD has some models make to specs (made by Shuguang, which I like for powertubes) but they can be found in other places, including OEM in some amps. They're still made by the same people with the same tooling in the same factory, so it's not like there's an earth-shattering difference.

45$ for a current production preamp tube is quite ridiculous, though. You can get NOS tubes on eBay for less.

Wait... are you saying there's nothing unobtanium about my Genalex Gold Lion KT77s? They have "beautiful artwork" on the glass, man. And they did make my Victory RK50C sound really ridiculously good IMO (stock comes with EL34, but can take 6L6/KT66 too).

https://tubedepot.com/products/genalex-gold-lion-kt77-power-vacuum-tube

Putting any KT77s in an EL34 amp usually has that effect!

 

[c7spheres]

Would love to try some Gold Lion KT77's in my 2502 just to know how they compare to the Winged C 34's in there right now, but $200+ on a quad and a coin toss is a bit steep right now. I guess if I didn't like them they'd have good resale value because I hear nothing but good stuff about them.

- Any idea on reliability or other info on the the Gold Lions?

 

[technomancer]

I was talking about preamp tubes, and in this case the Mullard (long plate) is a rebadged Sovtek LPS. TAD has some models make to specs (made by Shuguang, which I like for powertubes) but they can be found in other places, including OEM in some amps. They're still made by the same people with the same tooling in the same factory, so it's not like there's an earth-shattering difference.

Now I want to buy a Mullard to compare the the LPS I have a bunch of here Looking at photos of the Mullard vs the LPS I have here it looks like the plates and getters are both different... I'll chuck one on my next tube order.

Also physical differences in tube design and materials composition do definitely make a difference in a number of areas including durability and sound, regardless of which factory they are coming out of. That applies for both pre and power tubes.

I do agree $45 for a new production 12AX7 is nuts.

 

[USMarine75]

I do agree $45 for a new production 12AX7 is nuts.

Especially if just one amp alone needs 7 of them

 

[Mourguitars]

The Gold Lions 12ax7's i bought a bunch, gold pin and reg pin..i put them in the Kartakou Pre amp...i like the JJ's that came with it better, but if i pull the unit out i might try the EHX 12ax7s...those are in the Rocktron pre amps and i like those

E83CC i really like in Ceriatone V1....i would recommend that tube and would buy a few more

EHX 7025 is another that is very quite and mellow gain for a new production

I have such a massive collection of all the ole desirables 12ax7 tubes ...i will never use them all , power tubes i buy in sets of 8 matched....i do have some EHX EL34 i havent tried yet, other than that JJ's Sleva , and Shuguang 6L6's and EL34's

Mike

 

[Steinmetzify]

JJs in everything except my Herbert.

El34s in the Dual Dark
6L6s in the Armageddon

Gold Lion KT66s/KT77s in the Herb

I’ve tried a few other tubes in that Diezel and it doesn’t sound as good. $250 to retube but fuck it it’s worth it.