The truth about Blackmachines?

Discussion in 'Standard Guitars' started by Velokki, Nov 30, 2018.

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  1. Ziricote

    Ziricote SS.org Regular

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    Was anyone using Rosewood for necks before Doug? He started this wood for necks. And what about his custom bridges he made and unique compound radius fretboards? Also he only use old growth wood for top and body and not build without old growth woods?

    I think people just want "hype" to end so they someday buy one for cheap. This doesnt sound so bad to me. But in the reality I still wont afford this guitars.

    Why isnt there more recordings with these guitars? did anyone bands use them in the studios?
     
  2. Thrashman

    Thrashman Got Groove?

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    Used to own a B6 - spectacular guitars in every sense of the word. Super resonant, full and silky smooth tone but still aggressive. Very 3D-esque.
    It also felt and sounded a lot like a chambered guitar although it wasn't, very peculiar and is part of what sold me on them apart from the playability and overall sound.

    Neck shape is like a chunkier ibanez wizard neck which I really liked.

    Are they magical or unique? No, they're just great guitars with their own kind of sound.


    Sold mine to fund some Aristides' guitars which happened to be everything I was/am looking for in a guitar.
     
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  3. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    Several builders did for decades before.

    They were just Strat bridges, then Schaller.

    Far from the first. Those go back to the 70's at least.

    There is nothing unique about the woods he used.
     
  4. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    Pretty much everyone outside the SSO/ERG community. I mean, on TGP they're a little too strong on it, would probably laugh someone off for thinking any sort of Ibanez could be a decent guitar. But lots of cool wood combinations going on with the builders popular there, both now and then.

    So I give props to Doug for taking the stuff that was successful among boutique guitars and bringing it to an Ibanez-type form-factor, and to a demographic that would associate handmade guitars with like Bernie Rico Jr and Hufschmid..few others...slim pickings. But aside from the thin-ness I'm not seeing anything functionally interesting. The headstock, the binding, the beveled edge, the tele control layout, the branding on the back -- all pretty unique stuff, but not something that's going to make a guitar any better than any other.

    And I guess I can sort of give him props on the fanned fret stuff, but I don't think anyone talks about blackmachine now because of the FF8s. The guitars that got all hyped up were B2/B7s. And certainly not B6s. Kind of funny to see them even mentioned when people talk about blackmachine hype -- B6s are $3-4k all day apart from a few months of a hype bump years ago before production took off. I had one of the earliest B6 examples out there -- probably the 2nd earliest one built. I would describe it as a "decent" guitar. It sat here in the for sale section for like 3 months at $2500. Then some famous people played them and it became a $5500 guitar for a while. That's hype.
     
  5. Jonathan20022

    Jonathan20022 Engineer

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    My personal B6 was completely average at best and fell short against nearly every EBMM I've ever played. These guitar's skyrocketing values is so ridiculous, I feel like people wanted the blackmachine to be a unircorn in this community. This ridiculous unattainable perfection in the realm of build quality and tone, these guitars aren't that special to me. I've played two B6's and a B2, great guitars and I've definitely played and heard better especially when you scale down the value and compare them objectively to other guitars.

    My Blackwater DII was ironically better than every blackmachine I've had my hands on. The only thing missing was this mystery chambering pattern people have speculated on for years.

    The B2/6 design is sick as hell, and that's all I'll ever give it because that's what is objectively unique about them. I do however have a cap on how much I'm willing to spend to acquire the design. It sure as hell isn't 5 figures.
     
  6. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    I can never figure out if this is an Emperor’s New Clothes thing, or a Beanie Babies thing. Maybe a combination of both. Certainly a number of people have profited off of the “Blackmachine bubble,” but I think a lot of people honestly believe there’s some mojo going on.
     
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  7. prlgmnr

    prlgmnr ...that kind of idea

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    It's just weird seeing "Hufschmid" on here.
     
  8. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    Was scared to type it. I think it's a trap.
     
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  9. Lord Voldemort

    Lord Voldemort SS.org Regular

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    Why is that? I follow him on social media, he makes some pretty cool guitars.
     
  10. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    His name was banned here for years after some shady stuff. It just appeared as .........

    Then the forum moved over to the current system and some hero discovered that it had been uncensored.
     
  11. Humbuck

    Humbuck Can't stop, won't stop

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    And a B6!
     
  12. ddtonfire

    ddtonfire SS.org Regular

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    FWIW, I bought a B6 (granted, a Felinemachine) a few months ago and someone asked me if it lived up to the hype. I replied with something like this:

    Compared to my EBMM Petrucci's, it's a different tool that accomplishes different things. If I want to play huge riffs in Drop C or lower, I pick up the Blackmachine. If I want to shred, I pick up the Trooches. Of course, either guitar can accomplish both of those, but one is more apt to elicit that type of playing than the other.

    Blackmachines were the perfect storm of timing, big-named players as early adopters, pricing, rarity, and mythos. They're worth it to try if you can since they hold their value pretty well and people jump at them when they do pop up (I just saw Misha's old B6 go for like $5k on reverb a few hours after it posted. It was the only one I've seen for sale since my own). Mine inspires me each time I play it, so that's worth it to me.
     
  13. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    But... Does hype apply to B6s really? I mean... If anything they're cheaper for most people these days than they were previously, with the post brexit exchange rates. Saw many pop up in the $3k range over the past year. Obviously your own enjoyment trumps the rest of it but Ferrari or Aston Martin?
     
  14. _MonSTeR_

    _MonSTeR_ SS.org Regular

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    I first tried a Blackmachine in 2003, I think that most of us who saw them back then liked them but saw them more as “quirky” rather than exotic and unique looking.

    But yeah, the thin body was “wrong” at the time when others were looking at 55mm thick bodies.

    As far as hard tailed natural finish superstrats went back then, I preferred my Ibanez JS6. It was basically the same, but I was convinced it had more resale value
     
  15. ddtonfire

    ddtonfire SS.org Regular

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    I think it extends to B6's since starry-eyed players like me see Blackmachine on the body and the iconic headstock up top. I couldn't really think of a better analogy.
     
  16. khm

    khm SS.org Regular

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    Doug wanted to endorse my band many eons ago, and came down to our studio with several bags of BM guitars for the band to try out, they where fantastic guitars and he was an extremely nice chap. We ended up spending most of the night talking motorbikes. Unfortunaly I was playing bass in that particular band, so couldn't afford to invest in a new guitar (even though it was being offered at a ridiculously cheap price as he liked the band) - I still regret to this day not buying one. I didn't even realise there was any hype at the time, as we had only been put in contact through a mutual friend on Myspace (that tells you how long ago it was).

    Jonathon @ feline has been my go to for as long as I can remember (until I moved to The Netherlands a few years back) and he makes fantastic guitars as well, and is a life long friend of Doug, so would love to try out one of his and dougs BM's one day - 2 of my favourite Luthiers.
     
  17. xwmucradiox

    xwmucradiox sweep.tap.sweep

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    I ordered a B2 in 2006 and received it in 2008. It was made with the wrong body wood. Doug said I would have to go to the back of the line if I wanted one made with the body wood I ordered. The guitar that arrived was fine but by no means a $4000 guitar. I would have preferred an RGA121 for $800 instead. It showed a lot of evidence that Doug wasn't very adept at using tools or performing finish work. There was a lot of tearout on the binding route that he filled with white filler for some reason even though the guitar was a natural oil finish. There were numerous sanding swirls in the ebony top where he had used a random orbital sander the wrong way and with old sandpaper. I've posted about this guitar in more detail elsewhere if you search around. I don't know where the guitar is now but Im sure whoever owns it is very happy because its worth a pile of money at this point.

    That guitar was not a great guitar but I firmly believe that it would have been built much better if I were a famous player. Im sure the djent dudes that owned fancy ones had great guitars. Or they were just fibbing about how nice they were to preserve or increase value. My impression was that Doug somewhat deigned to build guitars for regular folks and would put in minimal effort if you weren't going to do something for his brand by owning a guitar.
     
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  18. Ataraxia2320

    Ataraxia2320 SS.org Regular

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    Played 2 Black machines.

    One was a b7 with a spalted top. Looked the tits but there was nothing special about how it played. It was a great guitar but the price was insane.

    The other was a really plain b2. This guitar was the absolute tits. I have never played a guitar that has reacted to my playing so well. I honestly felt like every other guitars had latency in comparrison if that makes any sense to people here.

    The jury is still out for me.
     
  19. cip 123

    cip 123 SS.org Regular

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    Are you aware how silly you sound?

    I think everyone wants the hype to end so we can see if they live up to any sort of price. The only people that want hype are doug and the people who own the so they can make money. Hype Gone means more people get their hands on them, which means more people can critique Doug.

    Also loads of builders have done rosewood before him.

    His "Custom" bridges? Most of them look like the cheap chines strat hardtail bridges, or a metal plate with wilkinson saddles (Most people on this forum do that in the build section). Then he switched to Schaller.

    Compound radius has been around for years, ask any builder and they'll do whatever radius you want if you pay them.

    Who cares how old the body wood is? There are builders using old wood and younger woods, and they all make amazing quality stuff.

    None of what you said makes Doug special or better at guitars. In fact one guy AVH guitar repairs, who does meshuggah's guitars, took a Blackmachine 8 apart one time, and I'm fairly certain he didn't hold it to the mythical standard that players do.
     
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  20. Element0s

    Element0s Low Fantasy/Black Denim

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    I haven't had the chance to play a real Blackmachine but I've owned my VSK OS6 (essentially a B-Machine copy) for about two years and it's a wonderful piece of kit. I use it on all my band's recordings. I don't think Brett (from VSK) is building too much these days but every so often one of his builds will pop up in the $1000-$1,200 usd range and if my guitar is any indication, they are incredible quality for that price point. Might be worth keeping your eyes out for.
     
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