The story of my little misunderstanding with engage757...

[ElRay]

Zack,

You've been caught in lies here and on other forums. You've admitted to marking-up items with unrealistic BIN's on Ebay, knowing they won't sell, just to get solicitations outside of Ebay. I wouldn't trust you if were dripping wet and told me it was raining outside.

Regarding your "stellar" feedback, the original snake-oil salesmen had plenty of happy customers, but that's no where near equivalent to saying there was never any dishonesty involved in the sale. Also, your buddy Mehtab/Stealth got caught abusing the rep system to wipe away all of the visible negative feedback from your profile. That got him his fourth, or so, (supposedly) perm-ban.

And, speaking of perm-bans, you're lying again. I know you were perma-banned at one of the other forums we both have (well, had in your case) logins for. There are mods that have stated you've been perm-baned, but sweet-talked your way out of it/them. At any rate, the simple fact that you've been banned, means that you've been banned infinitely more than I have. In fact, you recently got a two-day and then received another two-day within hours of your return.

Finally, this is coming from somebody who's been on this forum longer than you, so you can't play the "bully the newbie" game.

Ray

 

[Hollowway]

I personally don't get too wrapped up in these sort of situations. My guess is that this is probably a misunderstanding from what the OP considered a refund of the shipping costs vs engage. This is why legal documents are so damn long. Heck, just in the last 6 months I've had two sales where I was told the guitar was mine, and then someone else comes in and offers more money and they reneg the deal. It's just part of the territory of buying and selling that you'll end up with some disagreements.

OP, I wouldn't sweat this whole thing. Sounds like overall you saved money on the thing, so just chalk this up to a misunderstanding. And brace yourself, because honestly, compared to some of us on here that have literally paid thousands for guitars that we never received, $65 is not much for a misunderstanding.

 

[Hollowway]

Zack,

You've been caught in lies here and on other forums. You've admitted to marking-up items with unrealistic BIN's on Ebay, knowing they won't sell, just to get solicitations outside of Ebay. I wouldn't trust you if were dripping wet and told me it was raining outside.

Regarding your "stellar" feedback, the original snake-oil salesmen had plenty of happy customers, but that's no where near equivalent to saying there was never any dishonesty involved in the sale. Also, your buddy Mehtab/Stealth got caught abusing the rep system to wipe away all of the visible negative feedback from your profile. That got him his fourth, or so, (supposedly) perm-ban.

And, speaking of perm-bans, you're lying again. I know you were perma-banned at one of the other forums we both have (well, had in your case) logins for. There are mods that have stated you've been perm-baned, but sweet-talked your way out of it/them. At any rate, the simple fact that you've been banned, means that you've been banned infinitely more than I have. In fact, you recently got a two-day and then received another two-day within hours of your return.

Finally, this is coming from somebody who's been on this forum longer than you, so you can't play the "bully the newbie" game.

Ray

Dude, take your personal grievances and conspiracy accusations to PM. There's no need to start a cat fight in the middle of a regular thread because you don't like someone or think they're lying.

 

[Hollowway]

You guys can say what you want and defend his actions (which i agree was him going far beyond what most of us would be willing to do), but I also believe that he should hold up his end of the agreement as well. Granted when you are talking expensive instruments 65 isn't exactly a lot of money, but that isn't the point. Sticking to your word is more important, and if he really wanted just to end that whole bullshit he could of just sent him his 65 dollars back, and not take the hit to his reputation. No matter how good your rep is, a bad mark looks terrible. That is just my opinion though.

Unless we actually saw the email we don't know that what the OP and engage both understood the agreement in the same way. And while I can see your point about giving up the money to prevent hits to a reputation, that's also the textbook definition of extortion. That's a slippery slope. Tough call on that one, that's for sure.

(Sorry guys. Should have used the multi quote tool.)

 

[MFB]

Dude, take your personal grievances and conspiracy accusations to PM. There's no need to start a cat fight in the middle of a regular thread because you don't like someone or think they're lying.

Except everything he posted is a reason as to why stuff like these threads shouldn't exist because no Engage would have meant no sale and therefore no issues to create this thread. He's not bashing Engage because he personally has had any issues with him, hell Ray is barrly even outside the Theory subforum; he's posting it because we've gotten rid of scammers and flippers in the past that were a risk to the community and instead, now it doesn't matter anymore because people will get let back in despite the name of a ban bring called "permanent" and then have their slate wiped clean by friends. If this were Wayward or any of the past members would you have felt the same way? Just because he posts nice FS ads doesn't mean we should hold him to higher standards.

 

[Erazoender]

Zack,

You've been caught in lies here and on other forums. You've admitted to marking-up items with unrealistic BIN's on Ebay, knowing they won't sell, just to get solicitations outside of Ebay. I wouldn't trust you if were dripping wet and told me it was raining outside.

Regarding your "stellar" feedback, the original snake-oil salesmen had plenty of happy customers, but that's no where near equivalent to saying there was never any dishonesty involved in the sale. Also, your buddy Mehtab/Stealth got caught abusing the rep system to wipe away all of the visible negative feedback from your profile. That got him his fourth, or so, (supposedly) perm-ban.

And, speaking of perm-bans, you're lying again. I know you were perma-banned at one of the other forums we both have (well, had in your case) logins for. There are mods that have stated you've been perm-baned, but sweet-talked your way out of it/them. At any rate, the simple fact that you've been banned, means that you've been banned infinitely more than I have. In fact, you recently got a two-day and then received another two-day within hours of your return.

Finally, this is coming from somebody who's been on this forum longer than you, so you can't play the "bully the newbie" game.

Ray

Stealth didn't rep people for personal gains; he gave it out to loads of people...like SchecterWhore, Church, etc..

 

[MFB]

In the recent case though, he DID exclusively thank some of Engage's threads just to remove any negative marks - which is the reason why he was banned (again) and it's posted in the Public Ban List by the mods if you dont believe it

 

[Hollowway]

Except everything he posted is a reason as to why stuff like these threads shouldn't exist because no Engage would have meant no sale and therefore no issues to create this thread. He's not bashing Engage because he personally has had any issues with him, hell Ray is barrly even outside the Theory subforum; he's posting it because we've gotten rid of scammers and flippers in the past that were a risk to the community and instead, now it doesn't matter anymore because people will get let back in despite the name of a ban bring called "permanent" and then have their slate wiped clean by friends. If this were Wayward or any of the past members would you have felt the same way? Just because he posts nice FS ads doesn't mean we should hold him to higher standards.

Yeah, it just sounded very personal and unproductive. I don't know any of that background, but that's the kind of post that gets the mods wanting to ban people for fighting back and forth on the forums. Point taken, though.

 

[ElRay]

Stealth didn't rep people for personal gains; he gave it out to loads of people...like SchecterWhore, Church, etc..

Not quite. Mehtab/Stealth's painfully obvious goal was to rid Engage of all of his visible -rep. In order to do so, he had to spread rep around before giving more to Engage. 20+ +rep to Engage and just enough to others so Mehtab/Stealth could keep going.

From the "Public Ban List" Thread:

Stealthdjentstic goes for good (again), this time for rep system abuse that screwed up the mods investigating other issues

And that wasn't the first time Mehtab/Stealth played the manipulating rep game. PM me if you want details or want to know way Mehtab/Stealth would want his and Engage's rep to look spotless.

Ray

 

[ZEBOV]

Not quite. Mehtab/Stealth's painfully obvious goal was to rid Engage of all of his visible -rep. In order to do so, he had to spread rep around before giving more to Engage. 20+ +rep to Engage and just enough to others so Mehtab/Stealth could keep going.

From the "Public Ban List" Thread:

And that wasn't the first time Mehtab/Stealth played the manipulating rep game. PM me if you want details or want to know way Mehtab/Stealth would want his and Engage's rep to look spotless.

Ray

Mehtab has pos-rep bombed dozens of people before talking to Engage much.

 

[flexkill]

Not quite. Mehtab/Stealth's painfully obvious goal was to rid Engage of all of his visible -rep. In order to do so, he had to spread rep around before giving more to Engage. 20+ +rep to Engage and just enough to others so Mehtab/Stealth could keep going.

From the "Public Ban List" Thread:

And that wasn't the first time Mehtab/Stealth played the manipulating rep game. PM me if you want details or want to know way Mehtab/Stealth would want his and Engage's rep to look spotless.

Ray

If this crap is true....why are these people allowed back here over and over again???? These people should not be allowed to feed off of a trusting community!

I mean, if this whole rep abuse thing to cover tracks shit is true....that pretty much shows their true colors as far as I'm concerned.

 

[AngstRiddenDreams]

Edit: Every body fucks up every now and then, the biggest of all retailers will make mistakes. But as long as you contact them they will almost always fix the problem. Now I can't say for sure what really happened between you and Engage because the emails were between the two of you, but if what he says is true I definitely don't think he's in the wrong. Even if you're right, you're still probably only out 45-50 bucks and that is not a big deal in my eyes.
I can see why Stealth would try to fix Engage's rep, I mean if I got neg repped for something that really didn't happen I wouldn't want that hanging around for people to see.
It just seems like putting white out over a spelling error.

 

[MassNecrophagia]

Also, it's been stated several times that anyone outside of the parties concerned has no access to their interaction via e-mail.
OP has been civil, engage has not.

 

[mcd]

holy shit this post is still up?

 

[eleven59]

Poking the bear was fun.

Engage, if you ever happen to read this thread (I assume you still are, you're too petty to not need to know what we're saying), anything you say to or about me doesn't matter in the slightest, as I have zero respect for you. Had this been the only time I'd heard complaints about you, I'd have probably seen your side of things. Your reputation goes beyond numbers on some websites. People know what you do, and we don't forget, no matter how hard you work to keep your online image falsely clean.

 

[broj15]

Please don't lock this shit up. Things haven't been this "wild west" around here in a while.

 

[Yo_Wattup]

dis already guuuuud

 

[broj15]

it's like i'm patiently sitting in front of my computer waiting for something exciting to happen.. like porn in the days of dial up.

 

[technomancer]

Ok I think this has gone on long enough and isn't going to accomplish anything. A couple things for the record:

1) engage has not been perma'd here, ever... however he has been banned five times for a number of things, including violations of not selling outside the classifieds and stuff like that. This is also the third "deal with issues" he's been involved in that's come up publicly. So the next time he steps out of line he will be gone permanently. We've already let him go beyond the usual three bans and you're perma'd rule so we don't think that's unreasonable.
2) the allegation was made that somebody was following engage around giving him neg rep. When the mods tried to investigate we couldn't find anything as the system only stores the past X reps given, and Stealth had gone in on 3/18 and completely filled engage's record with positive rep. Rep bombing, whether positive or negative, is an abuse of the rep system, and will earn you a ban. In this case it also screwed up the mods ability to do their jobs. Given Stealth had been banned about 100 times before this, he got a perma for it.
3) Since I'm sure I'll get a raging PM after this claiming engage never had any dealings with issues and I'm making stuff up or am out to get him, I'll list them:
- this thread
- the J-Custom JCRG Gold II that he got off of ebay, marked up by a substantial amount, and tried to sell without disclosing issues it had that were described in the auction (so he was definitely aware of them), then decided not to sell once other members called him on it
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/gu...t-ibanez-j-custom-gold-ii-very-rare-jcrg.html
- the trade gone bad deal that was eventually resolved to everyone's satisfaction after it was made public http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/off-topic/217026-need-advice-bad-deal-forum-member.html