The story of my little misunderstanding with engage757...

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by MailMan, Mar 25, 2013.

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  1. MailMan

    MailMan Well-Known Member

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    Hey everyone. I'm still quite new here, with only a few posts, but I must say that from what I saw of the site, there's a great community here, something which is unfortunately rare nowadays. I'm interested in your opinion about a bit of an awkward situation that happened/is still happening to me in connection with engage757, whom I guess most of you know better than I do.

    I stumbled into this site back in December when I was looking to buy my first 7-string. I found a thread by engage that had an Ibanez which looked just perfect, so I contacted him - he seemed like a cool guy, and we concluded the deal pretty quickly. I sent him all the money in advance, including a hefty shipping cost, but he promised that if there's anything left over, he'll send it back, so I was like OK, there's an ocean between us, who knows how much they charge for it?

    The first few times when I asked him later about the shipping cost after he sent the guitar, he came up with an excuse for why he couldn't tell yet. After that, he evaded answering this particular question at all. It all started to seem a little eerie after a while, so I asked him to be honest with me. He then wrote me a mail in which he said how I shouldn't question his honesty, how he went way beyond by disassembling the guitar and sending it as a gift (for which I thanked him properly earlier), he was just about to move, and so on. I thought maybe I was impatient and a bit harsh, so I apologized. He didn't reply.

    The guitar arrived (it is a fine axe BTW, it was packed carefully, and didn't have a scratch on it - I love it), and I saw the papers that came with it. As it turned out, the shipping cost was less than what I sent. I waited for a while, but got no word from engage. Later I sent him two further mails (not even mentioning this whole money business in the first one), and I waited again. Didn't receive an answer. Over a week ago, I sent him a polite PM here, still not mentioning the shipping thing, just trying to contact him. More than a month had passed since my last mail. By this point, I wasn't surprised when I got no answer.

    I did not want to make this public, but I was out of options, so I sent him a negative iTrader feedback, thinking maybe that would make him at least answer me. The only thing I got was a negative comment on my feedback about how I harassed(!) and threatened (wtf?) him over shipping costs I allegedly already agreed to (I didn't, but I guess that's obvious from what I wrote so far).

    So I opened this thread. I guess engage himself will pop by, telling his version of the story, which is fine by me. I can prove my point through screenshots and photos if needed. I personally don't want any beef with him, I just wish to resolve this situation peacefully.

    Please share your thoughts if you'd like to.
     
  2. Swyse

    Swyse Swyse

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    How much was the difference? Keep in mind shipping costs can also include packing materials, boxes, and possibly having it professionally packed.
     
  3. Danukenator

    Danukenator Kane's Bane

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    Are we talking 10$ or a lot of money?
     
  4. mphsc

    mphsc http://pyramidguitarscompany.com/

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    I always get screwed shipping Internationally, meaning I always have to pay more than I estimated, so good for him over estimating. If it's less than $50 let it go man. Packing materials cost me anywhere from $30-70 depending on the guitar & location. Last guitar I shipped cost more than I charged, paid it anyway & let the buyer know after the fact. He was cool enough to make up the difference. Hope it all works out or you're not picking a fight over a few bucks.
     
  5. MFB

    MFB Banned

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    IIRC, he's perma-banned (for how long we don't know) so you might have to contact him via e-mail or do a Paypal dispute if the window is open and you didnt pay via gift
     
  6. flexkill

    flexkill Vodka & PentaTonic

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    If you feel the situation has gotten so far outta hand that you needed to make a public thread about it.....then you must post the amount of money that you feel you are owed. How else can anyone else understand the magnitude of your problem?
     
  7. MailMan

    MailMan Well-Known Member

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    It's not that much money (65 bucks), so this might sound ridiculous to you guys in the US, but it's just enough to make a difference in this piss-poor Eastern European country, where the average wage is about 600$.

    To Swyse: he never mentioned any packing material costs. He'd promised he'd refund what was left.

    It's not just about the money anyway. He could at least have told me to wave goodbye to my money and never write again or something... I just hope he doesn't do this to other people.
     
  8. pink freud

    pink freud SS.org Regular

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    Well, I'd guess fairly permalong.
     
  9. ArtDecade

    ArtDecade John Bohlinger's Dank Stash

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    Let me see if I understand... You gave him negative reputation over shipping costs after you received a guitar in perfect condition that you love and after he broke the law to send this as a gift so that you didn't have to pay additional taxes on your end. Add to the fact that he had to pick up (or buy materials) to pack it all up and go through the pain in butt of sending things via international post.

    I think you are a jerk-off. But that is just my opinion...
     
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  10. MFB

    MFB Banned

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    He's been perma-banned before and Alex has let him back so that's why I say that. More like a "perma"-ban
     
  11. angus

    angus SS.org Regular

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    I always get hosed on international shipping, so I'm always surprised someone comes in under budget.

    Materials for that could eat up a significant portion of that budget, such that the difference may not be nearly as large as it seems. That would be an important factor to understand. I doubt this was a ploy to screw you out of money- particularly when he broke a law to save you taxes.

    I'd say count your blessings.
     
  12. eleven59

    eleven59 None shall pass. Contributor

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    I wouldn't recommend defending engage on this one. They had an agreement about shipping, engage has gone back on that and stopped replying to messages. Therefore, the negative feedback was deserved. Overall feedback rating is about more than the quality of the guitar you receive, its' about the overall satisfaction with the transaction and dealings with the seller/buyer.

    I say sue engage so he can't move.
     
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  13. MailMan

    MailMan Well-Known Member

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    I asked you all to share your opinion, so fair enough.

    But I only gave him a negative reputation after he promised to refund me whatever was over the actual shipping cost, and after I tried to contact him numerous times in private. It's pretty common to send stuff as gifts as far as I know, and I never heard of anyone getting caught. I still paid some customs + VAT (27%).

    I perfectly understand your point, but then why didn't he just say so?
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2013
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  14. broj15

    broj15 SS.org Regular

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    Thats how it goes man. I've been "burned" on here a few times (not mentioning names or anything). Just dumb shit like me saying "ok, I'll ship it with a tracking number and insurance in the full amount", however I guess even though you can track something and know that it's insured people still don't know how to use paypal's "gift" option. It would be one thing if they paid for shipping but it's an entirely different animal when I'm footing the bill (that means i spent the extra money to make sure it gets to you in one piece and you just screwed me out of even more money).

    Basically, it happens man. That's the way of the road and once the deals done their isn't much you can do except learn from the experience.
     
  15. mcd

    mcd stuff and thangs

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    until we see emails and the like stated that a deal was 1. made and 2. understood by all parties. Then this is just he said he said.
     
  16. angus

    angus SS.org Regular

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    Also a fair enough point- that I agree with- but you can't approach this problem the way you did and then state that you did it so that things would end "peacefully", as that clearly is not the end result either.

    Not knowing either of you really at all (despite have a couple PM exchanges with Engage that were very nice and friendly in the past), I'd say that if he responded as defensively as he did, and given your tone in this initial post, I would venture to guess that you were a bit aggressive in your approach. Whether that be initially or eventually, it is a method that really doesn't get the best out of people. I'm not saying the situation is your fault by any means, but perhaps suggesting that there are some things you can take away from the exchange that may help in the future.

    Additionally, it is worth considering the other side, as was mentioned- there may be additional costs to take into account (packing/shipping materials and/or labor, which are not accounted for in the cost you would've seen, and can be substantial), plus he did take extra steps that could've initiated legal liability on his side that was done for your benefit. Thus, perhaps a more reasonable, objective approach should be considered before hearing the full story- which I agree, you deserve, if you haven't received. Fair enough.

    Cosmically speaking: I get shafted on every international shipment I ever make when I sell guitars, pickups, whatever- it is never as cheap as people want, nor never as cheap as people tell me they've paid previously, and I still make attempts to accomodate it because I'm excessively nice. Sometimes it is much more expensive (and this happens with in-country guitar shipments, as with BOTH guitars I recently shipped), and I often eat the difference because it makes the buyer happy. They often don't even know. Thus, returning to the function of the cosmos, as an international buyer, for every time that you overpay shipping once, you've probably underpaid a couple times. This does NOT excuse shipping inflation (like you see on eBay) or similar practices, but something to keep in mind when you can step away from the situation a bit. Doesn't make the one instance feel better, but is a healthy reminder that these things have some give and take.

    Just trying to be objective about the presented circumstances- not taking sides in any way.
     
  17. SpaceDock

    SpaceDock Shred till your dead

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    I feel like there have been many, won't name them, that come here just to sling guitars. You have to be careful with people that set up monthly threads with ten guitars just to sell/trade like that. They are wheelin dealin and looking for cash anywhere they can.
     
  18. mcd

    mcd stuff and thangs

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    this road is two ways...I've had some deals with a few wheel and deal trades/buys go through with out a hitch. Nothing wrong with a guy trying to make some extra scratch, as long as its on the up and up.

    I feel this thread would benefit from copies of the emails, seeing as how engage isn't here (yet) to give his side of the story. To me the whole thing looks like there is an easy middle ground that could possibly be met.

    We shouldn't be quick to rush to a judgement, remember there is always 3 parts to the story. Your side, their side, and the right side.
     
  19. Yo_Wattup

    Yo_Wattup Kick the Butterfly

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    In the business world, a promise is about the most meaningless thing one could say.
     
  20. flexkill

    flexkill Vodka & PentaTonic

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    This is good advice. ;)


    EDIT: It also looks as if a couple have been Perma Banned recently. This is pure speculation on my part....but it feels as if these types of members are being weeded out....not just here but other forums as well.
     
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