The Square-Enix Thread

[TedEH]

I always forget about Dragon Quest, but maybe that's because it seems very forgettable. That's one of the very early proto- JRPG type games originally isn't it? In my mind it's always been the most generic of JRPGs, but I've also not played many of them.

 

[thebeesknees22]

Dragon quest games are good, but they're looooooong. At least the last few I've played have been super long.

They're just cartoony clean fun, but they can be a bit of a slog at times to get through. Due to pacing or the style of combat. There's a lot of exp grinding for sure.

 

[Choop]

I played through Xenogears not too long ago, and while I did like it, I can totally see why it is often overlooked. I think conceptually it's incredible, but it has a lot of issues with pacing, being bloated, and the whole way they were forced to do disc 2 for budgetary (and time?) reasons was such a shame. Combat when you aren't in a Gear is also pretty bad.... .-. Gear combat is way more interesting though.

 

[IwantTacos]

Tons of mobile games are ports. Port just means you've moved something from one platform to another. If you take FF that was originally on a console, and jam it into a phone, that's a port.

If they do a ton of gacha games, that would make sense.

Dude I don’t know how to more simply say that they do a ton of gacha games. You’re gonna fucking argue the definition of a mobile game to me. If any one says to you they work in mobile you are going to assume they are working on f2p.

 

[TedEH]

If any one says to you they work in mobile you are going to assume they are working on f2p.

Heyo. I spent the last like 9 years of my life doing ports to and from mobile. Don't um-actually my job to me. A game being mobile, or free to play, has nothing to do with whether or not it counts as a "port". I get what you're trying to say - that "mobile" is a genre and not a platform - and you can think of it that way if you want to, but at the end of the day that's not how it actually works.

I am not in any way contesting the idea that Square Enix makes a bunch of gacha games. If you say that's the case, I believe you. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[wankerness]

I always forget about Dragon Quest, but maybe that's because it seems very forgettable. That's one of the very early proto- JRPG type games originally isn't it? In my mind it's always been the most generic of JRPGs, but I've also not played many of them.

AFAIK they're kind of considered the best possible version of a generic RPG. Like, DQXI doesn't really push the envelope in any way, but it also had pretty much the most charming characters, straightforward solid turnbased gameplay, and direct story of any big JRPG I've played since Final Fantasy VI. I think it's worth checking out. Especially if you get the updated version with a soundtrack that doesn't sound like 90s midi. I guess it's basically THE biggest RPG franchise in Japan, as well, like Dragon Quest fandom cuts across all demographics in a way that nothing else really does.

I know some people that are huge series connosieurs that love all kinds of earlier entries but I've only ever played XI. I think the series mostly is PS2 or older besides the mobile entries between that and XI.

 

[wankerness]

Nier Automata


Over-rated:
- Octopath Traveler

Nier Automata is GREAT, I sort of forgot it was a Square Enix game. It's not really comparable to what most people associate them with (RPGs). I would put it over every single one of their RPGs.

Octopath is good. I liked it a lot. Besides the plot. I skipped through all those cutscenes, they were terrible.

Live a Live is still on my list of things to check out, and I'll definitely check out FF Stranger than Paradise when it dips into sub-20 land, but other than that the only "franchise" I get really excited about from them is Nier. Nier Replicant 3.23972408729874 or whatever the remaster/remake of Nier is called is well worth checking out, too.

I haven't gotten super excited about a Final Fantasy game since VI back in the day (I played it first around 1999 or 2000 via the mangled SNES translation). I did play all the way through 9, X, XII, XIII, and XV (and most of the way through 8 and XIV). They were varying degrees of good, but VI is the only one I ever had an urge to play more than once.

I've started Chrono Trigger like 5 times and never gotten more than 4 or 5 hours in (I know once I got to some kind of futuristic mode 7 section). I just don't get the appeal. I'm sure it's great, but...I dunno. Didn't like the characters compared to FFVI or something.

 

[thebeesknees22]

Nier Automata is GREAT, I sort of forgot it was a Square Enix game. It's not really comparable to what most people associate them with (RPGs). I would put it over every single one of their RPGs.

Octopath is good. I liked it a lot. Besides the plot. I skipped through all those cutscenes, they were terrible.

Live a Live is still on my list of things to check out, and I'll definitely check out FF Stranger than Paradise when it dips into sub-20 land, but other than that the only "franchise" I get really excited about from them is Nier. Nier Replicant 3.23972408729874 or whatever the remaster/remake of Nier is called is well worth checking out, too.

I haven't gotten super excited about a Final Fantasy game since VI back in the day (I played it first around 1999 or 2000 via the mangled SNES translation). I did play all the way through 9, X, XII, XIII, and XV (and most of the way through 8 and XIV). They were varying degrees of good, but VI is the only one I ever had an urge to play more than once.

I've started Chrono Trigger like 5 times and never gotten more than 4 or 5 hours in (I know once I got to some kind of futuristic mode 7 section). I just don't get the appeal. I'm sure it's great, but...I dunno. Didn't like the characters compared to FFVI or something.

it's hard to compare another game to FFVI. It was one of the greatest games of all time for a long while.

I still played it from time up until I moved this last time and just kept my old consoles boxed up.

 

[Bloody_Inferno]

Despite being called out on the OP, I've been purposely avoiding this thread. Namely because I've already voiced my extreme love/hate relationship with the company in every other game related thread. My post about Rad Racer is legit, I loved it as a kid, so my love/hate runs deep to the point that I'm a bit tired of it.

Having said that...

FF7 is the most popular of the franchise and I see no point being bitter about it. It bought the series to the masses at the cost of Square's partnership with Nintendo, so of course Square were going to capitalise on it. Frankly I didn't care for the remake and whatever Nomura is planning to retell in the story, but the remake isn't unwarranted. The original graphics have aged worse than most late 90s 16 bit era games.

I take back what I said about calling certain staff 'great', and replace it with 'notable', since that lead to a massive debate about teams. Naturally of course I'll be barracking for the team and not just the 'known name'. Hell that's the reason why many of the respected game designers like Hideo Kojima and in Square's case: Hironobu Sakaguchi and Tetsuya Takahashi have kept their longevity. The had a team that they trusted and trusted back, all working for the same vision. I guess using the word great was my 'hero worship' to all the great composers who started or at least worked with Square and Enix for a long time. Those composers are without hyperbole my 'rockstars' and why I decided to take music much more seriously. But it's also funny most of them no longer work with Squenix. It's funny when compared to say Nintendo where all the long-time employees remain long time employees like they've landed their dream job.

Speaking of teams: obviously the Squenix of today isn't the same as the Squresoft and Enix of yore. They were much smaller teams during Japan's post bubble lost decade, so they had a lot to prove and worked their asses off for it to the point of exhaustion. Look the stories on how Yasunori Mitsuda was sleeping under his desk and got hospitalised for both Chrono Trigger and Xenogears. And while overworking was pretty common during Japan's recession period, nobody should be working that hard. Nowadays, Squenix, and frankly every other triple A company may have taken all the wrong lessons from this. Most JRPG fans, myself included, will say that Mistuda's work in Trigger is a masterpiece and a bold statement (threatened to leave the company if he wasn't given a composer job), but nobody should be overworking to the point of suffering like that.

Every Final Fantasy game after X onwards were different because Sakaguchi was no longer part of the franchise, and that's ok. FFXII was made at the time of the merger and massive staff overhaul and exodus were happening so it's no wonder Lost Odyssey is more FF than any FF games after XIII. I've heard a lot of development stories where Yoshinori Kitase was at one point all about the classic FF formula, but then goes for a new direction in X. I've had complaints with every game after XII myself, and still think VI is the pinnacle of the series. It's fine, some series need to evolve, even if it means you don't like it anymore.

Dragon Quest on the other hand, that's more a Japanese tradition at this point and a series nobody wants to change too much. DQ is the AC/DC of JRPGs and I can't imagine Enix/Squenix would've tried to deviate too much from their flagship franchise.

Don't expect a Xenogears remake any time soon. I've already written a full manifesto post on why the game shouldn't be remade and reading any development stories about that as well as Xenosaga should make that even more obvious. A remaster? Maybe a possibility, but in this case, Xenogears is Takahashi's baby the way Metal Gear was Kojima's so there may be a lot of legalities involved. While we're on the subject, don't expect a Chrono Trigger remake either.

Also, as much as I want the Blazer Quintet trilogy (Soul Blazer, Illusion Of Gaia, Terranigma), see above. Though Squenix did release Actraiser Renaissance literally out of nowhere recently so...

Once upon a time, I thought that Squaresoft and Enix merging would've been the Voltron of video game development companies. Oh, how naieve of me. Little did I know they'd become a company that resembles Shinra meets Tetsuo at the end of Akira instead. Merging with IO/Eidos then going from Hitman Blood Money to those awful Kane and Lynch games. And let's not get started with those NFTs.

Anyway... carry on.

 

[Ralyks]

Look, guys, we're avoiding the one game that everyone wants to say but no one wants to be the first to say it.

Yeah, that's right, I'm taking about The Bouncer.

 

[Sir_Shreddington]

I always forget about Dragon Quest, but maybe that's because it seems very forgettable. That's one of the very early proto- JRPG type games originally isn't it? In my mind it's always been the most generic of JRPGs, but I've also not played many of them.

Yeah I can see how many would consider it generic. I think it's because they don't want to stray too far from a successful formula since the game is insanely popular in Japan. Whenever a new DQ game drops it's a literal national holiday because so many people skipped school and work to pickup a copy and play it...at least it was like that in the 90s.

Wankerness pretty much hit it on the head. It's a super charming game, and has a straight forward hero's journey archetype kind of appeal.

If anyone can stomach the sometimes heavy xp grind (newer ports addressed those issues) and the classic turn based fighting, I'd really recommend trying out a few of the series' iterations. I think 5 is considered one of the best, but I like 3, 4, and 6 the best. The newest one was pretty awesome too and that has a more modern feel to it, so it might be easier to get into than the rest.

Also keep in mind that the DQ series appeals to my nostalgia so that's why I might seem like I'm pushing this game hard. I promise I don't work for SE marketing

 

[Nicki]

AFAIK they're kind of considered the best possible version of a generic RPG. Like, DQXI doesn't really push the envelope in any way, but it also had pretty much the most charming characters, straightforward solid turnbased gameplay, and direct story of any big JRPG I've played since Final Fantasy VI. I think it's worth checking out. Especially if you get the updated version with a soundtrack that doesn't sound like 90s midi. I guess it's basically THE biggest RPG franchise in Japan, as well, like Dragon Quest fandom cuts across all demographics in a way that nothing else really does.

I know some people that are huge series connosieurs that love all kinds of earlier entries but I've only ever played XI. I think the series mostly is PS2 or older besides the mobile entries between that and XI.

100% Agree. DQXI is a fantastic game. The fact that you can customize how battle feels (auto battle, moving around vs standing still in a line etc) is a great addition. At first I didn't like DQXI, but then I changed how battles play out to be more traditional JRPG and then I really feel in love with it. I played both the original release and Definitive. The soundtrack on the definitive edition is definitely top notch, but I found the original's to be perfectly serviceable in the context of an old school JRPG. Additionally, I don't like the downgraded visuals in the Definitive edition. So you kinda have to either sacrifice soundtrack or visual fidelity when choosing which version to play. Would have been nice to have my cake and eat it too.

Despite being called out on the OP

In fairness, I wasn't calling you out, just replying to your post on the other thread.

 

[MFB]

This thread inspired me to finally download the demo for Nier and see if it's worth all the hype

 

[wankerness]

I don’t know what’s in the demo or which game you’re downloading, but a ton of what’s amazing about Nier reveals itself in repeat playthroughs. I’m not sure that a demo would make a good impression. It’s really unlike any other game I’ve ever played. Also, best soundtracks in game history, especially Automata.

Nier 1 is a lot more nihilistic and despairing and it doesn’t become obvious till playthrough 2.

Nier Automata’s playthroughs are a lot more varied (1 and 2 are different versions of the same events, but 3 is the second half of the plot, unlike Nier 1 where all the playthroughs are the same events with different perspectives and cutscenes) and the game starts getting shockingly good at playthrough 3. That said, Nier Automata is a lot more immediately impactful than Nier 1 (I loved it utterly after a couple hours) and the sidequests are mostly a lot less tedious so I might recommend it first. There are some references here and there to the first game (a few shared minor characters) but it’s set hundreds of years into the future and playing 1 is not required to get into it.

I didn’t know this till yesterday when I saw someone complaining, but if you’re playing Nier automata, DO NOT start the game on hard difficulty cause you have to get like 30 minutes in before you hit a checkpoint or else the game restarts. You can change the difficulty afterwards if you want to make it harder, but you do not want to have to redo the entire opening if you die on the boss at the end of it.

 

[MFB]

I don’t know what’s in the demo or which game you’re downloading, but a ton of what’s amazing about Nier reveals itself in repeat playthroughs. I’m not sure that a demo would make a good impression. It’s really unlike any other game I’ve ever played. Also, best soundtracks in game history, especially Automata.

It's for Automata, I think it's the only demo for Nier there is but I may be mistaken; the naming scheme makes no sense to me, like 99% of JRPGs, but I just want to see how it plays before I commit to possibly buying the full game, since they fall into like two play styles at this point.

 

[Nicki]

I just played the Forspoken Demo. It's absolutely terrible. A Google search shows that the producer says it's not like the final game at all, but if the game's dialogue and combat is as bad as the demo's, this game is going to be DOA.

 

[thebeesknees22]

I just played the Forspoken Demo. It's absolutely terrible. A Google search shows that the producer says it's not like the final game at all, but if the game's dialogue and combat is as bad as the demo's, this game is going to be DOA.

The first trailer for that game was quite possibly the worst trailer I had ever seen. It was so poorly done that it felt like a first year college student put it together.

 

[wankerness]

It's for Automata, I think it's the only demo for Nier there is but I may be mistaken; the naming scheme makes no sense to me, like 99% of JRPGs, but I just want to see how it plays before I commit to possibly buying the full game, since they fall into like two play styles at this point.

You'll get that from the demo, at least. The first 30 minutes is pretty good at showing a variety of the playstyles involved in the game (one thing that's unique about both Nier games is that they have fluid camera movements and switch between 3rd person action/sidescroller/top-down/bullet-hell in various sections), it just probably isn't enough to hook you plotwise.

 

[Ralyks]

+1 for Nier:Automata. That game totally fucked with me, in a good way.

Still need to get anywhere past the 3 hours point in Nier:Replicant ver.TOMANYFUCKINGNUMBERSWHATTHEFUCK

 

[MFB]

You'll get that from the demo, at least. The first 30 minutes is pretty good at showing a variety of the playstyles involved in the game (one thing that's unique about both Nier games is that they have fluid camera movements and switch between 3rd person action/sidescroller/top-down/bullet-hell in various sections), it just probably isn't enough to hook you plotwise.

For me, that's all a demo really should be is "this is how the game plays, here are any mechanics that you may be unfamiliar with compared to other games, etc" but the story you can read quick enough from the store synopsis and tell if you'll give a shit or not.