The Official Decibel Guitars Thread - builds in progress

Discussion in 'Dealers & Group Buys' started by darren, Jan 23, 2010.

  1. Ramburger

    Ramburger SS.org Regular

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    This x9000. The actual concerns have been voiced and responded to already. Its about time people put down the pitchforks because its not going to accomplish more than whats already done.
     
  2. oracles

    oracles Australian in Canada

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    I'm of two minds about this. At this point we've seen multiple luthiers come through here and end up in a similar situation as the one Darren currently faces, and they're given free passes because it's the middle of their hype train and "they'll pull through" and no one's concerns are ever really addressed. It's nice to see the shift where they're actually being held accountable instead of having excuses made for them. e.g we saw a multitude of people stick up for BRJ as that scandal unfolded, when people were getting slammed for expressing legitimate concerns regarding Bernie's ability to actually produce the instruments, a trend that we've seen continue across other builders as well.

    At the same time, I agree that slamming Darren isn't going to get anyone's instrument to them any sooner. That said, people need to be aware of situation regarding Decibel, and make informed decisions when choosing a custom builder to commission work with. A lot of the feedback here is justified, spread through some that is most definitely over the top. I do hope Darren is able to come through on his word and get these instruments out, and I do sympathise with him, especially in relation to mental health issues. However, people's patience is only able to be spread so thin, and it only lasts for so long before they're all out of sympathy to give (which is exactly the point myself and several others are at regarding livewire presently). I really do hope Darren is able to come through on his word for you guys and get these instruments to their respective owners.
     
  3. -DTP-

    -DTP- SS.org Regular

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    I agree that slamming him in the ground does little to nothing to help anyone's cause but I'm not sure that putting money down to purchase a physical thing is comparable to investing in a business (where you're purchasing equity/are a stakeholder in the business). Customers and investors are different things liability wise.
     
  4. MF_Kitten

    MF_Kitten Set up us the bomb

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    I don't mean a literal investment, I'm just referring to the fact that you're paying for a non-existant product that will be made using the money you just provided. That's kind of a risk on your part as a customer, regardless of whether or not this is agreed upon or understood.

    It went off the rails this time, but it's in the process of being put back onto the right track. So let's do what we can to help that process along.

    The situation is what it is, so face facts and cooperate so everything can get back to where it should be.
     
  5. darren

    darren Decibel Guitars Forum MVP

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    That's pretty much spot-on analysis.

    The last few weeks have revealed to me some really counterproductive behaviours I've engaged in over the last couple of years. One thing I've struggled with is the incredible pressure I put on myself to achieve perhaps unattainable levels of perfection expected of my work. The setbacks I have experienced would trigger paralyzing anxiety, causing me to retreat into "create" mode in order to at least try and feel some kind of accomplishment at something… doing what I know I'm good at, and already had a 20-years of success under my belt. While it may have made me feel better in the short term, I recognize now that it was completely counterproductive behaviour that only succeeded in digging my hole ever deeper.

    In hindsight, I kind of wish I'd been working with a psychologist right from the beginning, as I started this career transition from designer to luthier. Had I done a better job managing the stresses of the transition (and all the external factors as well) would have likely kept me more on track managing myself and the business. I thought I could handle it all on my own, and I was clearly wrong. But I'm working with a therapist now, and I'm confident that the demons I've been wrestling with will be conquered.

    Guitars will be delivered. I'm cutting through all the chaos and working on prioritizing everything in the shop right now, and should have a workable plan very soon. I assure you, I'm taking this all very seriously, and know I have a lot of work to do to regain everyone's trust.
     
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  6. ormsby guitars

    ormsby guitars SS.org Regular

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    Are you able to work on these at near full time capacity Darren? Or are you still splitting time with your other business? Is your wife, as a carpenter, assisting? Do you need a arse kicker to give you goals to stick to that are achievable and small enough not to go into overwhelm, yet still see the the light at the end? Sometimes that's all it takes.
     
  7. asher

    asher So Did We

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    I think everyone who winds up going to a therapist winds up wishing that, I sure as hell know I do since I started in May. College might have been a lot nicer :lol:

    But you did it then instead of a month or a year from now, and (to me) it sounds like you've got the right perspective on this. I really hope you can get things chugging along :yesway:
     
  8. Helstormau

    Helstormau Well-Known Member

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    Any progress yet, or is it more excuses?
     
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  9. sehnomatic

    sehnomatic SS.org Regular

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    Sorry, but that just sounds like unnecessary provocation.
     
  10. asher

    asher So Did We

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    :agreed:

    It's been... barely over a week since the last series of posts and the second half the holidays.
     
  11. Captain Butterscotch

    Captain Butterscotch PRS Guitars

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    Stop being a tool.
     
  12. leonardo7

    leonardo7 Banned

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    Hey guys, I totally understand its a delicate situation and theres no need to stress Darren out any more than he has made it very clear in this thread that he apparently already is, but you guys come across as though his apparent admit of his "problems" is a turning point? Yes it is a very clear turning point regarding his public statement and reputation, but hasn't this been going on behind the scenes for a couple of years now? Is being quiet going to help the situation, or is being on his back going to help? Is it really such a fragile situation that people must not post in this thread? Im not trying to come across as a smart ass, just trying to have discussion since this thread was bumped tonight. I dont have much else to offer to be honest, those thoughts just came to mind
     
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  13. asher

    asher So Did We

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    Because it's coming in just over a week later after the holidays with nothing constructive to add, condescending tone, and is transparently just trying to stir the pot.

    I totally understand wanting to make sure things are actually improving, but this is stupid.
     
  14. leonardo7

    leonardo7 Banned

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    Well hopefully with some more time to get it together we will see some progress. Im all for that! :shred:
     
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  15. mhickman2

    mhickman2 The Abiding Dude

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    Darren,

    Even though my build didn't come to fruition, I was still happy to do business with you. You handled my experience with you honestly, and respectfully. Just eat that elephant one bite at a time. You'll be fine.
     
    btbg likes this.
  16. jwade

    jwade Doooooooooom

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    This kind of passive-aggressive, self-important impatient rudeness is ridiculous. I've been seeing some of the most obscenely childish behaviour in this thread, and it bothers me. Some of you seem to either have no conscience, or an actual desire to see Darren fail. It's as though you're motorists on the highway, slowing down while driving past an accident hoping to see a body. It's disgusting.
     
  17. Fred the Shred

    Fred the Shred Shrederick

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    While the remark in question is quite uncalled for (not to mention the pointless rudeness it brings to the table), frustration from customers is to be expected in this scenario.

    While conscience is a mandatory asset for any decent human being, there is an aspect of entitlement that mustn't be taken lightly - the moment you pay and agree to the conditions, you are indeed entitled to what both parties agreed on; when progress is apparently non-existent for a good while beyond what was agreed, restlessness is normal and paying customers are entitled to, other than knowing the cause i.e. the tragic situation that plagues Darren, know what the plan is to rectify the situation and how it is being implemented within reason.

    To me, the latter is still the point that is not fully addressed thus far, and I do hope Darren can pull off a plan that is as shielded from further hiccups as possible, so that the buyers feel reassured pertaining things being on the right track.

    As for the whole "show us the wood" and similar suggestions of displays of supposed progress, it's pretty darn pointless as stated, and I'd personally find that a waste of Darren's time, not to mention it doesn't mean anything pertaining how functional the operation is at a given point in time. Personally, now that the personal issues that affect Darren are being addressed, I hope to see the planned outline when possible, and when the time comes, more objective - and far more related to the woes of the buying public - progress summary pics when applicable. "Are we there yet?" 20 times in 2 weeks won't really help matters that much for either side and it's often just adding a lot of stress to what is essentially a remarkably stressful situation. :2c:
     
  18. ElysianGuitars

    ElysianGuitars SS.org Regular

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    This is just completely untrue. It takes me a trivial amount of time to pull out my smartphone and take shots and upload them to imgur. You don't have to edit anything and they don't need to be professional quality photos. Assuring customers is part of the job, it's not trivial at all.
     
  19. Fred the Shred

    Fred the Shred Shrederick

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    Pray tell what assurance there is in randomly photographing planks. Unless said planks are laid out with the customer identification (which takes time) and still there is zero evidence of any progress, since they're... well... planks. heck, I can even go to a lumber mill myself and take pics of lovely planks of tonewood and make them look professional, while in truth they'll end up in some fancy dresser or closet! :lol:

    Even a CNC cut, without any plan to compare the actual progress to, means little by itself (although I do concur it would reassure people that the CNC, which has murdered my build once actually, is now working properly). No plan to get back on track means you have nothing to give you an estimate of a projected timeline and measures undertaken to correct the serious problems encountered thus far, and planks, bits of wood and lovely pics of hardware are beyond secondary as far as I'm concerned.

    Also, let me put it to you this way: I've been sent pics of things far, FAR more advanced than planks and still the luthier / company failed the completion date completely, and the champion on that regard is actually KxK, on which I had photographic evidence of my guitar completely cut, shaped and glued, custom bridge and pickups sorted, and it took him ages to complete the guitar in the end due to paint shop issues if I remember correctly (a year and a half). This is but one amidst many examples of completion date derails, no matter how justified, where the apparent progress didn't translate to the effective date of completion. The common problem to the lot? Not having any definitive plan to present and conveying the intention of praying to the gods of luthiery for things to work well. The one evidence of actually getting an instrument worth the hassle was, in most cases, excellence of previous builds and a good amount of output. Here Darren has the handicap of not having the latter, and my honest opinion is that it is far more professional to take the bull by the horns, assume the commitment, and work his ass off to ensure the goal is met.
     
  20. ElysianGuitars

    ElysianGuitars SS.org Regular

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    I don't know what to tell you. I see progress shots from successful builders every day, on Facebook and on here. I know that Ormsby sends out shows to his customers, I probably overdo it a bit, and there are plenty of other small builders on here who manage to show progress and meet deadlines. Right now, Darren has blown the deadlines, and progress shots have been very very lacking, and people are getting more frustrated. If Darren starts shipping guitars in a few months, great, but his customers will continue to be frustrated with no outward signs of progress if he takes your advice and doesn't "waste his time" with proof he's working.

    And if all he's got is planks then there's an even bigger problem.
     

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