The future of Chibsons...and others like it

Discussion in 'Standard Guitars' started by mmr007, Mar 16, 2021.

  1. Kaura

    Kaura evanesencensencenenist

    Messages:
    1,699
    Likes Received:
    1,754
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2016
    Location:
    Middle-Vantaa, Finland
    Are you only talking about Chibsons and other guitars that are blatant, poor copies of high-end guitars or MIC guitars in general?

    Even if it means I'm stupid and full of shit. I still love my MIC Squier Strat. <3
     
  2. T00DEEPBLUE

    T00DEEPBLUE SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    616
    Joined:
    May 5, 2019
    In a word, no.

    The higher-end Japanese Gibson copies were objectively superior to the very guitars they were cloning. Chibsons are just shoddily made guitars and will forever be considered such.

    I know people were saying that back in the 80's. But those people were more ignorant than today. The American car market was being dragged over the coals due to the vastly superior products Japan was producing. And marketing was adjusted to spread propaganda by automotive companies and trade unions to protect market share. Many people drank the Koolaid. People who were interested in cars are quite often interested in guitars too as they're marketed as being part of the same lifestyle. So the protectionism for the dwindling car market trickled down to the guitar market too.

    I don't see Chibsons being superior to their domestic counterparts any time soon. So I'm doubtful of history repeating itself.
     
  3. mmr007

    mmr007 SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    758
    Likes Received:
    1,251
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2010
    Location:
    SoCal
    Very well said. I agree if one is looking for a guitar to play now that is cheap but great (relatively speaking) get a used Epiphone or used MIM Fender. But the question again is not whether we are currently overlooking the hidden jems that are Chinese knockoffs but whether there is a value in them 20-30 years from now. Impossible to know but I doubt many people thought original Fender telecasters made of plywood with the worst bridge designs in guitar history would have value.... Because people think of Chibsons as firewood now...as has been mentioned.... will finding one in pristine condition 20 years from now be like finding an original star wars action figure in its original packaging....eg...desirable? No one thought a useless piece of plastic would be worth something if we didn't rub it in the dirt and lose its lightsaber

    Again with the incresase in guitar production in China...the availability of cheap well made guitars like Harley Benton and Squier (apparently now with SS frets)...it seems that illegal knockoffs will no longer make economic sense for the counterfeiters because the price gap has closed and these may disappear alltogether...hence one day you have a very valuable piece of history that we view differently...

    Again #2..not every guitar is gig worthy and that has not been a problem. This (the guitar community) is a group of people that like to COLLECT things...for the purpose of collecting even if we never play it.

    I think I have actually convinced myself....I still don't want one but I imagine in 20 years I'll necro this thread and lament about my failed retirement plan...
     
  4. Señor Voorhees

    Señor Voorhees SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,119
    Likes Received:
    709
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Location:
    Woonsocket, RI
    mbardu is correct. The show featured the real guitar (an LP Standard.) I USED to own a real one... I loved it, and I miss it, but these days I can't swing that kind of money. I had to sell it so I could move a couple years ago. Big regrets there, and the counterfeit doesn't even begin to touch the quality of it. (who would've thought a $200 wouldn't match up with a $2k+ guitar?)

    You could make the ethical argument that if I can't afford it, I just don't get to have it, and that's not exactly wrong. But if my worst moral short falling is that I bought I cheap piece of junk because nostalgia as a decoration, then I'm okay with that. lol

    That said, just because you can find nice used guitars made in other places doesn't mean the value isn't there in the Chinese guitars. Hell, Harley Benton has a $200 fanned fret 8 string and a $400 headless guitar. Harley Benton might not be like top shelf or anything, but they're pretty decent quality. (And their factories tend to be in the cheaper east countries.) You get some really cool unique/niche features for that $200-$400. When I was starting out, all you could get for $200 was a junky "starter pack" guitar that would slice your hands to bits on the garbage frets. The kind of features you can get on new cheap guitars is pretty remarkable, and the quality has only gone up. That's where the stigma of Chinese = bad comes from... They used to produce nothing but hot garbage. Not always the case these days.

    The short of it all, and the only relevant part is that Chibsons retain zero value because it is illegal to sell them, and nobody is ever going to knowingly pay big bucks for one.

    Basically to answer the OP/thread title: The future of Chibsons will be that they are ultimately largely worthless. Even if you do sell one, if you're an honest person, you're not even making back the peanuts you spent on it. Others like Chibson? I assume this means things like Epiphones and "legit" Chinese companies. They'll hold better value than Chibsons, and it's not illegal to sell, but they're not collectible like lawsuit era guitars, or really old vintage Gibsons/Fenders/etc.
     
    mbardu likes this.
  5. Señor Voorhees

    Señor Voorhees SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,119
    Likes Received:
    709
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Location:
    Woonsocket, RI
    I think you underestimate the power of peacocking. lol A lot of people will always want to buy that fake Gibson 1000% because it says "Gibson" on the headstock and they wanna be one of the cool kids. You'll be able to buy better cheap guitars, (as you already can, evidenced by the Chibson priced Harley Bentons with niche features) but if it doesn't say "Gibson" that's enough to push some people into buying one.
     
  6. Exit Existence

    Exit Existence SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    472
    Likes Received:
    469
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    I'm pretty sure the fake Rolex I bought on a street corner in New York City when I was 12 years old is still worthless.
     
    fabronaut and mastapimp like this.
  7. T00DEEPBLUE

    T00DEEPBLUE SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    616
    Joined:
    May 5, 2019
    I'll never understand why people bother with this when they know fully well in the back of their minds it's a fake and it will always be a fake no matter what the headstock says or how much money they waste trying to upgrade their heap of junk. And anyone with a modicum of knowledge about Chibsons on guitar forums (one of only a couple places where people actually care about the guitars you own) can immediately call one out from across the room.

    On both counts it totally defeats its own purpose if you ask me.
     
  8. MaxAidingAres

    MaxAidingAres SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    507
    Likes Received:
    161
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2012
    Location:
    Reseda, CA
    To continue the convo on quality of aliexpess guitars. I own 2 guitars (7 amd 8 string) from aliexpess. I have threads on both (i think) you can see.

    i have put a decent amount of work and a lot of money into them (compared to original price) roughly have $1k-$1.3k in each including the initial cost.

    They are fantastic guitars and I play them all the time. However they have their flaws. Aesthetic, however still flaws. Like routing fuck ups and bridge being crooked etc.

    they are worth it to me. Knowing how reliable my guitars have been (owned them for about 2-3 years). Id do it again. However. Its hard to justify them to someone else. Like if i were to sell them (which i wouldnt), it would be hard for me to price them high due to the aesthetic flaws. They are great dont get me wrong. But lets be realistic, we see threads on $1k indo guitars with the tiniest imperfection and OP will rant profusely about it.

    ANYWAYS more on topic

    I dont see them going up in “value” other than with inflation, which isn’t really going up if we think about it...

    only way is if theres artistic endorsement. Like a new talented artist that for some reason only uses their aliexpress guitars and nothing . Then, maybe then. Doubt it though.
     
  9. T00DEEPBLUE

    T00DEEPBLUE SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    616
    Joined:
    May 5, 2019
    I only see them going down to almost zero. Putting the fact they're illegal to sell to one side, nobody wants to own a second hand, fake and crap guitar. You might find the rare superfan who will pay megabucks on a piece of garbage if their waifu wiped their ass with it. But those people are outliers and only a tiny minority of guitars are lucky enough to have this boon. The remaining 99.9%? Trash.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2021
  10. Señor Voorhees

    Señor Voorhees SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,119
    Likes Received:
    709
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Location:
    Woonsocket, RI
    Agreed. Again, having owned an actual one vs a counterfeit, anyone who tells you "it's just as good" is full of shit. lol I even consider the one I got as of acceptable quality after the pickup swap and... People can trash on Gibson all they want, but if I bought mine for the sake of "having a Gibson" and not just "I want it to look nice on the wall," it missed the mark by a mile. It's not a bad guitar, but it's definitely not a great guitar like the actual Gibson I owned. I hope I can get that guitar back one day, and if I ever run into a decent amount of cash the first two things I'm buying are that LP and the Kiesel Vader I also had to sell when I moved.
     
    Hollowway and Flappydoodle like this.
  11. mbardu

    mbardu SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    3,196
    Likes Received:
    2,717
    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Location:
    California
    NK52ap0l.jpg
     
    Ivars V and Hollowway like this.
  12. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

    Messages:
    38,915
    Likes Received:
    32,218
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Location:
    Racine, WI
    Do folks in 2021 who post on guitar centric message boards not know the difference between "a guitar that happens to be built in China" and "a counterfeit guitar meant to be sold as a scam?" :scratch:

    Is that like something you had to be around in the 90's and early 00's to understand?

    Kinda serious here.
     
  13. mbardu

    mbardu SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    3,196
    Likes Received:
    2,717
    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Location:
    California
    Yeah the thread has kind of devolved into something else.
    "Chibson" in my mind is really those terrible fakes where on one hand, you can tell they're trying to pass it as the real deal by using the actual name and logo, but then they use playskool hardware on plywood and cannot even get the shape right or the neck aligned.

    But somehow this has turned into anything made in China, even actual products from Epi/Squier, which is a totally different deal.
     
    Hollowway likes this.
  14. Estilo

    Estilo SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    86
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Location:
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    How are crooked bridges an aesthetic flaw? It's a structural flaw in my books? Heck bridges being off centre, even if it does not affect intonation, is a serious enough flaw for me to get rid of it.

    Also, how is inflation not expected to go up with record printing when the economy could as it is recover on autopilot, and US personal savings as a percentage of disposable income is at a record high (21%)?
     
  15. MaxAidingAres

    MaxAidingAres SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    507
    Likes Received:
    161
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2012
    Location:
    Reseda, CA
    i agree that in most cases a crooked bridge is more than just an aesthetic flaw. However on my guitars its crooked about less than mm. Strings are centered perfectly and intonate perfectly. Dont notice it unless you really look for it.

    inflation is going up. But if guitars coated $500 back then used and cost $650 now used. Lets say min wage was $10 (cali) and its $15 now. How is that going up in value if inflation is keeping it level. Thats what i meant by i dont see it going up in value unless everything else goes up in value (inflation) which in that cases nulls the actual inflation cause well everything is more expensive.


    Hope that makes sense
     

Share This Page