The Car Thread

Mathemagician

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Can anyone here tell me what the protocol is for buying a new car nowadays when cars are so scarce and expensive? I've only ever bought one.

So I'm looking at a subaru crosstrek, and the only ones available are all listed as "dealer ordered - in transit" or whatever. How does this work? Do you have to pre-order it or something? How do I go about not getting screwed over by a salesperson when they don't even have the cars on the lot and they sell out instantly?
Ok so ordered a new car this year because used prices were ass.

1) Be less picky if you can be, but if you can find the other points this matter less
2) Find dealers who advertise that they do not charge dealer fees/that they sell at MSRP
3) Go in and talk to them about ordering whatever it is you’re thinking about. What would the price be. Is the price protected. You don’t want dealer add-ons etc. are they willing to promise this in writing?
4) if so go ahead an order, takes no more than a $100 deposit. That’s transferable to the car purchase.
5) Ensure that the order is entered in your name specifically and not the dealer trying to play funny games. Orders in your name provide your with more protections from shenanigans.
6) proceed to Wait 4-12 months for you car. Ford took me 4 months this year and I didn’t go wild. Apparently the Asian manufacturers have been quoting dealers 9months +, but not sure how accurate that is now versus a few months ago.
 

LiveOVErdrive

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Ok so ordered a new car this year because used prices were ass.

1) Be less picky if you can be, but if you can find the other points this matter less
2) Find dealers who advertise that they do not charge dealer fees/that they sell at MSRP
3) Go in and talk to them about ordering whatever it is you’re thinking about. What would the price be. Is the price protected. You don’t want dealer add-ons etc. are they willing to promise this in writing?
4) if so go ahead an order, takes no more than a $100 deposit. That’s transferable to the car purchase.
5) Ensure that the order is entered in your name specifically and not the dealer trying to play funny games. Orders in your name provide your with more protections from shenanigans.
6) proceed to Wait 4-12 months for you car. Ford took me 4 months this year and I didn’t go wild. Apparently the Asian manufacturers have been quoting dealers 9months +, but not sure how accurate that is now versus a few months ago.
Thanks a lot for this. I'll have to do some searching.
 

spudmunkey

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Random frustration:

We bought a compact-size EV in 2015. At the time, we had a bunch of options.
BMW i3
VW e-Golf (the one we chose)
Fiat 500
Kia Soul
Ford Focus
Hond Fit
Mini
Nissan Leaf
Chevy Spark

If we were to want one in 2022, yes they are all arguably "better", but there are only 3 options:
Mini (only 2 doors)
Hyundai Kona (taller cossover)
Chevy Volt (ugly)

Meh...

Unfortunately, every other EV is too long to even fit in my driveway, ha. Kia Niro, Kia EV6, Hyundai Ionic 5, Ford Mustang Mach E, Tesla 3 or Y, etc, all too big. Which is pretty annoying. We accepted the "early adaptor tax" of a car with shorter range (about 70 (highway) - 100 (city)), and have been thinking we might want to trade up to a newer model with better range. We assumed the section would continue to get better and better. And it has. But the market's left the "compact" class behind, and it doesn't seem there are any more coming on the market, at least for several years.
 

M3CHK1LLA

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Can anyone here tell me what the protocol is for buying a new car nowadays when cars are so scarce and expensive? I've only ever bought one.

So I'm looking at a subaru crosstrek, and the only ones available are all listed as "dealer ordered - in transit" or whatever. How does this work? Do you have to pre-order it or something? How do I go about not getting screwed over by a salesperson when they don't even have the cars on the lot and they sell out instantly?
not sure how much big of a hurry you're in but, if you can wait i would until things settle down.

used car prices are crazy...as are new cars. a lot of dealers are charging a minimum of 5k over msrp. my father-in-law just picked up a toyota sedan and that's the cheapest he could find.

before all this pandemic stuff, literally no one paid sticker. a few years ago a new supra was teased with the ft-1 concept. i was on the list at 2 dealerships several years before production began. when they launched dealers tried to get $10-30k over. i didn't get it because it ended up becoming a bmw zupr4.

now im on a list to get the new nissan z. it is a few months away and we are already seeing $10 to 20k adm with some trying to get $30k and up...
 

LiveOVErdrive

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not sure how much big of a hurry you're in but, if you can wait i would until things settle down.

used car prices are crazy...as are new cars. a lot of dealers are charging a minimum of 5k over msrp. my father-in-law just picked up a toyota sedan and that's the cheapest he could find.

before all this pandemic stuff, literally no one paid sticker. a few years ago a new supra was teased with the ft-1 concept. i was on the list at 2 dealerships several years before production began. when they launched dealers tried to get $10-30k over. i didn't get it because it ended up becoming a bmw zupr4.

now im on a list to get the new nissan z. it is a few months away and we are already seeing $10 to 20k adm with some trying to get $30k and up...
God. 5k over? Yuck.

Yeah I have thought about used a few times but I just won't pay new-car-msrp for a 5 year old car with 50k miles.
 

wheresthefbomb

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I bought a 2019 Nissan Rogue last summer. My first "real" car (not a <$1k POS). Payments are killing me but I've definitely made use of it over the last year.

No issues yet. Still have a good ~40k miles of warranty. Feels good to not be dealing with shitty old car problems anymore, at least.

About to drive it ~600mi home this week, first real road trip with the mom wagon.
 

p0ke

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Petrol is goddamned expensive these days even though the price just dropped something like 1/3 because the government changed some law temporarily. I paid 87€ for 42 liters (~11 US gallons) yesterday 😭 Even though my car is fairly efficient (I measured 6.6l/100km, roughly 35.5mpg) driving is expensive af. Seriously gotta jump on that EV train real soon..
 

NotAHoarder

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I just can't dig 'em. We had a huuuuge shutdown on I-95 last winter, road was gridlocked for 50mi. Once the EV battery goes dead, bye bye heat. I can at least get AAA to bring me a gallon of gas and get the heater working again. The tech has a long way to go.

Not to mention when the batteries spontaneously combust. Its terrifying, peoples garages going up in flames while the car's charging overnight
 

p0ke

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I just can't dig 'em. We had a huuuuge shutdown on I-95 last winter, road was gridlocked for 50mi. Once the EV battery goes dead, bye bye heat. I can at least get AAA to bring me a gallon of gas and get the heater working again. The tech has a long way to go.

Not to mention when the batteries spontaneously combust. Its terrifying, peoples garages going up in flames while the car's charging overnight

Valid points, but that kind of shutdowns don't happen over here so I'm not worried about that. Spontaneous combustion sounds scary for sure, but I haven't heard that happening to anyone over here. My biggest problem is that I don't wanna buy anything with a WLTP range under 500km, and the ones over that are relatively expensive. I also don't want an SUV, which most EV's seem to be...
 

spudmunkey

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I just can't dig 'em. We had a huuuuge shutdown on I-95 last winter, road was gridlocked for 50mi. Once the EV battery goes dead, bye bye heat. I can at least get AAA to bring me a gallon of gas and get the heater working again. The tech has a long way to go.

Not to mention when the batteries spontaneously combust. Its terrifying, peoples garages going up in flames while the car's charging overnight

A fully charged EV can keep providing heat for many many hours. A modern Tesla Model 3 can heat its cabin by about 40F and only lose about 1-2% per hour, meaning it could be able to provide heat for over 3 days. A Hyundai Sonata could idle about 60 hours from a full tank, so the differences aren't huge, but as EV HVAC systems are continually improved (like, for example, above I specified the "modern" Model 3 because they now have a heat pump-based system which is 30-50% more efficient than the old system) the advantage will tilt more to EVs.

But in that winter survival situation, an EV also has another party trick. If it has electric seat warmers, those are MUCH more efficient at keeping your body warm than heating the cabin, so you could easily push tha max warming tome out to 100 hours by switching between the two heat sources with an EV, but an ICE would need to run the engine to keep the seat warmers powered up anyway.

Yes, to your point, AAA could bring you a gallon of gas. Something to consider though: most people with EVs have chargers at home, so they are much more likely to leave their home with a full charge. So a thought might be: which is more likely to *need* that extra gallon: the car that gets into that traffic jam with only 1/4 tank because it's only filled as needed, or the car that is many times more likely to be more "full" much more of the time? If you got stuck with that Model 3 with a nearly full battery, you could be stuck for 35 hours, with the heat on 65F the whole time, and drive away still with 50 miles of range left. If that Hyundai Sonata was in that same jam with a 1/3 tank, you'd have run out of heat at 20-ish hours, and would depend on someone bringing you gas before you could drive home.

I'm not saying that EV's currently are the only answer, because if you put 300 miles a day on your car, that's a much different scenario than someone who puts on 300 miles a week.

To your last point, gasoline cars are many times more likely to spontaneously combust than EVs. Like...it's not an exaggeration to say that it's 100x more.

EV fires get more press coverage for two reasons, and one of them is because they are so much more rare. In 2018, there were nearly 250,000 ICE vehicle fires, and an average of 1.5 deaths and 4-5 injuries every day of the year. ICE vehicle fires killed 60% more people than apartment fires caused by kitchen fires, smokers, electeical fires, or equipment failures. On the flip side, the other reason for the seemingly more common press coverage of EV fires is that they are much more potent when they *do* go up.

I don't point to that data to try to scare you or necessarily try to change your preference, only providing context that isn't well-understood. I am 100% for EVs for myself, but I also realize they are not for everyone. Every person I've recommended an EV to in my personal life have all had very very positive experiences...but I haven't recommended them to everyone. I'd absolutely recommend it to my parents (and I will push the issue when they replace their roof next summer to add solar since all of their appliances are electric already), but wouldn't recommend it to my brother who, at a moment's notice, could be called 300 miles away for work, and would have to spend too much time out of his work time to find operable chargers along his route.
 
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NotAHoarder

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It was a rare occurance. Ice storm, people sliding off the road, just turned into a total mess. The range stuff I don't care for, either. We have hurricanes over here, I can only imagine what would happen if someone was trying to flee inland and their battery died. No way to charge it without a diesel generator in the back of an F350 which kinda defeats the purpose of zero emissions, and it takes hours.

Theres vids on youtube of them bursting into flames. EV bus in Paris blew up, lithium spraying outta the roof-mounted battery like lava, terrifying
 

NotAHoarder

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I work in the automotive field. Those things scare the crap outta me. They're extremely dangerous to work on
 

NotAHoarder

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Most power plants are still fossil-fueled, so regardless of if you have an ICE or an EV, it's still ultimately burning dinosaurs to power it unless you live close enough to nuclear or hydro
 

p0ke

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Most power plants are still fossil-fueled, so regardless of if you have an ICE or an EV, it's still ultimately burning dinosaurs to power it unless you live close enough to nuclear or hydro
TBH being ecological is not the main reason I want an EV, the sky-high petrol prices are. Besides, over here 52% of produced electricity was done using renewable sources in 2020, so we're definitely getting there. Our latest nuclear power plant (biggest one yet) started production at the start of the year as well, so that percentage is likely to be even higher already.

But of course it will depend on where in the world you're situated. Over here the Ukraine situation sky rocketed all the prices so much that I'm genuinely worried that I won't be able to afford to drive at all soon. And what's the point in having a car in the driveway if you can't afford to drive it? Also I don't think my/our driving would suffer from switching to an EV - we rarely drive more than 200km per day, and when we do it's no problem to plan a slightly longer recharging break. We've got 3 kids so we'd probably end up taking breaks anyway.
 


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