Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Luthiery, Modifications & Customizations' started by aslsmm, Nov 25, 2010.
This was listed on the bay today.
Not mine (it was a Diva).
saw this and thought it was worth a mention...
Bernie Rico Jr R s Series Black Hybrid Vixen 6 of 30 New Old Stock | eBay
The terrible blurring on those photos is unforgivable.
Anyone got the inside scoop on this guitar? BRJ Bernie Rico Jr Vixen Fr 6 String Black Gray Splatter Duncan Pickups | eBay
I remember seeing this on gearhounds a while back, atleast I think it was this one.
He's a member here: SevenString.org - View Profile: geofreesun He's probably had it for awhile now.
Interesting development on my end: I was in a music store in NorCal today, and saw a few unfinished guitars that looked very much like Ricos leaning up against the back counter. I asked the shop owner what they were, and he's like, "The unfinished guitars? We got them from a guy in Mexico." So after talking with him for a bit, it seems a friend goes down to Mexico quite frequently, and came across a shop that had all of these guitars in it, and called the guy and asked if he wanted to buy some. I brought him up to speed on the situation, and he's going to see if he can get me more information. I'm not going to reveal the music store or anything on here, because I don't want to get him in a hot mess. I want to follow this and see what we can learn from it, and take it from there. And I will keep you guys posted!
And, yeah, they were all made in Mexico. Pretty much no doubt about that now.
I wonder if the place in Mexico just made extras or if this is some other BRJ stock.
Although there could be a number of possibilities, I think it's clear that the odds are 99.99999999% that this place in Mexico made ALL of the BRJ guitars. Based on what I saw, all woodwork, fretwork, and staining was done down there. They then came into the US, were painted or cleared or oiled, electronics put in, and final fret dressing was done.
Anyone who ways they believe that Bernie was building these here, despite the wealth of evidence to the contrary, is either lying or incapable of deducing this very easy conclusion.
No slight at you, UnderTheSign. This was the final piece of evidence to tip me over the edge to knowing everything was MIM.
have any former brj employees ever confirm this or go into detail about how he ran the business?
I've gotten some PMs from former employees that pretty much confirm that he [Bernie] didn't really do anything aside from artist relations, answering the phone, placing orders, and basic setups.
There have been industry people and other builders who have alluded to this for years.
A lot of those folks involved with Bernie didn't want to come forward in fear of legal or punitive retaliation, not to mention plain old self incrimination. Few of those who worked with and for him don't have any kind of dirt on thier hands. From the guys who ran the website knowing that the company was failing, to the guys boxing up guitars with defects, to the endorsees who knew to jump ship.
Interestingly enough, early on in this thread someone did come forward but I've never been able to confirm if they were legitimate or a troll who could tell the future.
Check the date on that.
Nah I got what you meant, I'm well versed on BRC and BRJ history and was one of the first to claim he had a shop down south Like father, like son.
What I meant was, are the unfinished guitars "old stock" from BRJ or did the Mexican shop makes themselves some extras?
Ahhh, I see. Yeah, that's a good question - I'm not sure. I'll post up news as I get it. Basically, I think it would be cool if we could go down there and buy up what is left over, and then try to work out some arrangement where we could get our guitars. Doubtful that will ever happen. But whatever information I can get I will let you guys know.
Buying up old supposed Bernie Rico stock... Reminds me of this old fellow, Ed Roman
Didn't BC Rich have all their guitars built in Mexico back in the Rico Sr. days? I thought I read that on here, and that Jr. even used the same people.
EDIT: Found it: http://mcs.acidpit.org/showthread.php?18324-BCR-Bible-History
From Neal Moser:
"Production didn't start the one down South until 78 or 79 ish. Quality was too close to tell the difference. The only way you could tell was by the shape, and mostly only Mocks. I'm not sure how it happened, but two different Mock shapes appeared. I don't remember any difference in the Eagle shape. These luthier's who worked in the BC South shop were trained by us, BC North, Wink so they were very good Luthiers and the guitars coming up from them were excellent.We "BCR North" trained the BC South crew. They were NOT a different company that we farmed out our guitar building to. The guitars were made the same way with wood that WE supplied to them and the guitars costs just as much from them as from OUR wood shop. There were NO "white guys" doing the "wood work" on BCR guitars either North or South. ALL BC Rich guitars were made by Mexicans."
It's been pretty well established that anything resembling a complete instrument has already been sold off, at least once if not more.
I know it's nice to believe there's a magic storage locker out there with everyone's guitar in it ready to go, but that's not reality.
At best you'll grab some incomplete body/neck/fretboard blocks, like Bernie had hanging everywhere. After so many years, it's likely anything built back then has expired.
But then who gets what? A lot of specs were extremely similar and some even identical.
Unless you see the actual, completed guitar in the wild it's safe to assume you'll never get a guitar out of this.
And so what if this leads to the infamous woodshop? By all accounts it wasn't an integrated part of Bernie's business and being in Mexico it's not like you'll be able to force them to give you anything.
According to that link I posted the Mexican wood shop is located at 15 April Street, Pan-American Colony, Tijuana, Mexico.
Which is an address that just doesn't exist, at least anymore.
Yeah, I doubt we'll get anything from it. The guitars at the store I saw were basically right out of the woodshop in Mexico - fretted, stained, and complete, sans the oil/paint/clear, electronics and hardware. My guess is that stuff happened stateside. I talked with Terri over text and got very close to having her mail mine back to me. She had it, and we had some good text conversations last year, and then she went completely silent. Likely the advice of a lawyer. I contacted her because there was a guy on here who DID get her to send his guitar to him, and I bought it from him, and got her number. At any rate, those were here in the US, because they had made it as far as clear coat. I had a video of Bernie with mine, and I was soooo close to getting it. Sucks. What sucks most is this isn't the first time or last time I've been burned by a luthier! Fortunately, my currently outstanding orders (KxK, Peters, OAF, Jahn) all seem like good guys, and despite it being years (KxK), there doesn't seem to be an indication that I will never receive them (knock on wood).
Anyway, it was interesting to see these show up locally. A weird end to a sad event. Sad for us, not sad for him. I have no sympathy for the family, because they actively avoided dealing with this. I offered Terri more money to simply ship my guitar, and she just stopped responding.
Overall, my luck with these sorts of things has forced me to all but completely stop ordering instruments on a to-be-built basis. They either take way longer than expected, or simply never show up.
It's an aside to the main convo and I know I've said this before, probably to you Hollowway, but Tom at OAF is one of the most reliable and kindest luthiers I've ever had the pleasure to work with. He went way above and beyond to make my guitar more than just one of five, to the point where I consider it my "Rap Hat" sig. From letting me pick out the woods and figure out the color in person, to adjusting the frets and lightly sealing the neck after I realized temp and humidity changes seemed to effect it too much, to taking it back AGAIN to route it for a HSH set of Ionizers and have it rewired+reshielded with a six-way switch... The guitar is (I feel) pretty uniquely mine, and one I'm proud to have people see me play. And if someone wanted an OAF 8 Singlecut that's super versatile I'd say, "Hey, grab one with my specs!"
Such a difference from Bernie. Like, sure, Bernie would talk to me on the phone for 2-3 hours at a time (literally), but much of it was him "apologizing" and coming up with tons of excuses while badmouthing other Luthiers.