Talk me out of buying a bogner twin jet please

Discussion in 'Gear & Equipment' started by Gmork, Jun 18, 2019.

  1. Cynicanal

    Cynicanal SS.org Regular

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    My preferred settings depend heavily on what guitar I'm using and my ears that day, but the above clip was:

    Depth -- just shy of max
    Master presence: off
    Channel volume: 1 o clock
    Channel presence: 11 o clock
    Treble: 1 o clock
    Mids: 11 o clock
    Bass: 11 o clock
    Gain: 1 o clock

    Play around with channel presence a lot, it's super-interactive with everything and is the most powerful knob in the amp. It's almost a "MOAR OF EVERYTHING!!!" knob, except not really? Hard to describe, but you'll know it when you've played with it a bit.
     
  2. Gmork

    Gmork SS.org Regular

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    Im officially the owner of a twin jet!!!!! Took a ferry over to vancouver to meet the seller which went smooth as can be. Funny cuz as i walked into the arrival section we zerod in on each other from afar as metal heads do and just simultaneously pointed at each other lol.
    Now to hop back on the ferry and GET THE F*** HOME!!!!
    Super badass demo vid incoming!!
     
  3. TheWarAgainstTime

    TheWarAgainstTime "TWAT" for short

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    I have mine set up with the master depth just below max, master presence at noon, volume as needed. Hot Rod channel volume around 10:30 and the rest at 1:00. High gain channel volume around 9:30, treble at 11:00, and the rest around 1:30. I use a clean boost into the front end, but you can tweak those settings slightly and still get a tight, aggressive sound if you plug straight in
     
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  4. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

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    That actually sounds kinda romantic how you met. Haha. No homo, but just saying it sounds like a romance movie anyway. Its funny how when you find someone in a sea of people with a common interest how you instantly have a connection. Its almost like, wow do you wanna be friends? Lol
     
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  5. Gmork

    Gmork SS.org Regular

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    Ha yeah. Turns out our respective bands even played together like 5 years ago!
     
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  6. Cynicanal

    Cynicanal SS.org Regular

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    Another fun set of settings to play around with:
    Depth: Off
    Master Presence: Off
    Channel Volume: 1'o clock
    Channel Presence: Maxed
    Treble: 12:30
    Mids: 11:30
    Bass: Enough to get the fundamental coming through, it'll happen at around 2'o clock to 3:30 depending on the guitar
    Gain: 2'o clock

    I use the above a whole lot, it's less smooth and modern than the first settings I posted, and has a really mean growl to it.
     
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  7. Gmork

    Gmork SS.org Regular

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    I C A N N O T wait to try this s*** out!!! Double mono with my fireball100!!
     
  8. DudeManBrother

    DudeManBrother Hey...how did everybody get in my room?

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    Hell yeah the TJ is a phenomenal amp. I like the tonal character of EL34’s/ KT77’s for the Uberschall circuit a lot, but KT88’s really thump in these things. I’m happy with my Rev Blue, but I have thought many times about grabbing a TJ too. Enjoy it!
     
  9. Gmork

    Gmork SS.org Regular

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    Ok! So initial thoughts are optomistically mixed.

    Cons:
    -very different tone than i was expecting.
    -very grainy kinda harsh mids, was expecting it to be a lot smoother.
    -EQs seem to do nothing at all until just a small window where it goes from not enough to too much (especially and MAINLY the treble/highs)
    -the EQ is SO stupid and weird, wtf?!? Like how about you just do whats expected of you?! Treble should be labeled as "low mids but then thinnerer" mids should be labeled as "kind of treble AND mids"
    -no corner armor!?! What were they thinking?!?
    Ok i think that covers it.

    Pros:
    -the twin jet (and 99% of all other tube amps) simply CANNOT be judged by using it at its extreme literal lowest volume (which is how i HAD to play it tonight) SO (basically) ALL CONS ARE NULL AND VOID!!! WOOHOOoo!
    -i only got to play for about 40 mins or so and HOLY S*** the EQ again?!? My goodness, this will take time to get use to AND I WILL ... in time... And thats ok.
    -hmm how do i articulate this... I expected it to be more saturated/compressed but its kinda got a dry rawness to it. Reminds me a bit of another amp ive owned but cant put my finger on it. POSSIBLY when playing the recto at wisper volumes.
    -i was trying a lot of wacky eq settings and during the last few minutes i did SOMETHING (not sure now because the EQ is totally nuts and makes no sense) that resulted in the tone being less harsh grainy mids to sounding nice and more of a smooth dark low mids sorta thing going on which is my jam!
    -tried it with my airis smg proto drive od to boost and really doesnt need it (at least at low vol) and on a bit of a side note ive noticed that od TOOOOTALLY has its own super grunty sound that kind of takes over whatever amp its going into. When engaged i swear it sounded SO much like my engl fireball100 when i use it with that amp as well! weird. (good weird though, that od is the most insane brutal boost ive ever heard)
    -i can tell full well that once this thing gets cranked its going to smooth out a bit and be a freakin chest caver-inner monster machine!! And sounds like it could cut though every band that happens to be playing in the world at the same time. Like some metal band will be playing a show in japan but the audience is only going to hear my twin jet being player here in canada.
    -my 6505, recto, vtm120 and some others all sounded similarly kinda harsh at this pathetic volume. Im not really concerned in the least. I just cant wait to crank it.

    Btw it has 6550s & tung sols in it.
    Im playing an ibanez ironlabel 8 with emg808s.

    Cheers to turning IT UP!!!!!!
     
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  10. Gmork

    Gmork SS.org Regular

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    When i make my demo vid is it ok that i start a NAD vid thread? Yall wanna see that?!

    Oh and so far (as far as LOWWwww volume is concerned at least) IMHO the engl fireball is still very much at the top of my list
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  11. Cynicanal

    Cynicanal SS.org Regular

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    The EQ design is fucking bizarre, but there's a good reason for it.

    (Note that almost all of the below only applies to Channel 2. Channel 1 has a traditional FMV tonestack in every regard with the addition of the unusual Uberschall Presence circuit.)

    First off, the basics of the BMT tonestack -- it's nearly identical to a Marshall tone stack, except the midrange knob works on a higher frequency than on most amps and the notch is deeper. The behavior you're noting with the treble control shifting the midrange emphasis as well as controlling the top end is typical for *any* amp with a FMV tonestack (my favorite method of dialing in a 5150 involves sweeping the treble knob around to find where to eliminate the "boxy" mids and then controlling the top end with the presence knob), but it's particularly noticeable on this amp due to the aggressive size of the midcut.

    There's a good reason for this tonestack weirdness, but we have to make a little diversion before we understand why.

    Most guitar amps have what's known as a Negative Feedback Loop -- a small part of the final signal is fed back into the phase inverter, which subtracts from the waveform at the phase inverter, causing a reduction in overall signal size in any frequency proportional to how much of that signal is being put out. In a guitar amp, that basically means "it tames the mids, makes the amp tighter by making it react less to speaker impedance, and reduces power amp distortion". What a "Presence" knob does in a normal amp is dumps some of the high frequency content of the NFL to ground, meaning the high frequencies have less damping, so you have a brighter sound... and also, critically, more saturation and potential for overdrive in those frequencies. This is why a Marshall's crunch gets more aggressive when you turn the presence knob up. The magic of a Recto's "modern" mode is that it removes the NFL, and does other things to tame the mids; the result is that you get maximum power amp saturation in the midrange, something a normal high-gain amp just can't do, at the cost of losing the tightness/response benefits of an NFL and also having some hard-to-tame fizz.

    Enter the Uberschall, and, specifically, it's magic Presence knob.

    Unlike the Presence knob on 99% of amps out there, the Uberschall's Presence knob (specifically, the channel presence on the TJ; the master presence works like a normal presence knob) is NOT a simple low-pass filter in the NFL. Rather, it's a funky RLC circuit using a custom inductor that dumps certain critical frequencies in midrange harmonics to ground while letting the top-end fizz and a bit of the bottom-end boom continue unimpeded to cancel those frequencies out at the PI. As a result, you get the best of both worlds -- the tightness of a NFL amp, with the midrange harmonic saturation of a non-NFL amp.

    And, with this knowledge, we can see why the tonestack is done the way it is. A "traditional" midrange knob would be completely useless on the Uberschall; entirely secondary to the presence knob, which winds up controlling the overall "focus/feel" of the amp. Instead of handling "boxy" or "nasal" frequencies, the midrange knob is focused squarely at the attack, allowing you to control how bright/forward the overall sound is without fucking up the overall alchemy of the special Presence circuit, and the midrange cut is significantly deeper, to help counteract the naturally somewhat mid-heavy tone being created by this unusual power amp design. Bass gets to control frequencies more into lower mids than it would on most amps as a result of this midrange shift, and the treble knob's effect on the midrange is a bit more pronounced than on most amps due to the design of the midrange knob.

    The TJ does one better here than the regular Uberschall by adding traditional master depth/presence RC high-pass/low-pass NFL filters. If you're in the mood for an amp that feels more Soldano-ish, you can just run all three tonestack knobs much higher than usual (treble high to shift the midrange control down; mids up to reduce the mid cut; bass up to compensate for how much mids and treble you have), run channel presence down (but probably not all the way off, the amp just isn't quite voiced for that), and then use the traditional power amp controls like you usually would. This results in an amp that, while the settings are frequently a bit weird looking if you dial with your eyes, has incredible versatility across a wide range of high-gain sounds.
     
  12. Gmork

    Gmork SS.org Regular

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    Damn Cynicanal lol. And i thought i was a geek jk. That was a great read man!! Yeah the TJ is just... Like.... A different kind of amp lol. You have to kind of rewire your brain in how EQ typically works. But in deconstructing it, it THEN starts to make sense in an alternate but viable way. Its neat and i can appreciate that!
     
  13. DudeManBrother

    DudeManBrother Hey...how did everybody get in my room?

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    It is definitely an amp that needs a bit of volume to sound good. Once you play it at stage volume it just destroys. The low end tightens up favorably and the treble smooths out. It’s not an amp I turn on for quiet jamming, but it’s always in the rotation for live shows.
     
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  14. Beheroth

    Beheroth SS.org Regular

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    isn't the tonestack just a regular ass FMV tonestack with log pots instead of linear ?
     
  15. Cynicanal

    Cynicanal SS.org Regular

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    Nope, the treble cap value is 270pf instead of 470pf. It's the Ecstasy that's just a standard FMV tonestack with a linear treble knob.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  16. Cynicanal

    Cynicanal SS.org Regular

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    This doesn't really match my experience; I find that, once you get channel volume to 1 'o clock and master volume to about 10:00, it pretty much does what it does the rest of the way up the MV sweep.
     
  17. DudeManBrother

    DudeManBrother Hey...how did everybody get in my room?

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    Interesting. I’ll give it a shot. I’ve always run my channel volume around 3:00 and anything above 9:00 on the MV starts to push the boundaries of “bedroom” volume. It still sounds good, but not nearly as good as MV at 12:00
     
  18. Cynicanal

    Cynicanal SS.org Regular

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    Yeah, my volume isn't quite "bedroom" (friends who come over to my house when I'm playing say they can hear me over their car stereos when they get to my curb), but it's also not gig level. It's more "I can run this loud during the day, but not at night, in a suburban neighborhood without the cops getting called".
     
  19. dongh1217

    dongh1217 SS.org Regular

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    Actually, try 6666 setting and work around that, (which means 1 o’clock for all gain Channel knobs. Works flawlessly with my Uber and my brother’s twin jet.
     
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  20. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

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    Sounds like you need to dump it off to narad
     
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