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Discussion in 'Movies, Books, TV & Media' started by Ralyks, Apr 12, 2019.
I will never understand the hatred for TLJ.
If I were to criticize any of the final trilogy movies released to date, it would be the Force Awakens for shamelessly recycling all of the tropes of the original. I mean, how many times do we need to blow up a bigger Death Star? How many villans in black masks do we need? IMO the single best thing about TFA was the fact that Kylo Ren almost immediately took off his stupid "I want to be Darth Vader when I grow up!" face/ventilation mask.
I don't know if this is really fair, though. I mean, low hanging fruit, Rey starts the movie vaguely force aware and leaves a fully trained jedi, but beyond that Poe and Finn both learn, very nearly the hard way, that it's sometimes harder but almost always more important to live quietly for a cause than to die nobly for it, and Finn and Rose's storyline is pretty explicitly about failing up, that failure is, Vader be damned, not something that's "not tolerated," but is ok if you get back on your feet and go out and try again, and that continuing to try is it's own form of success.
Idunno. There are legitimate grounds to criticize the movie, sure, and the hyperspeed ramming is a little problematic for continuity purposes, sure. But I don't think characters being static and not growing as the film progresses is one of them - that's 8 Mile you're thinking of.
Light speed ramming is only possible later in the series through the advancement of Gas Direct Injection and turbocharging efficiencies.
I'm not gonna try and pick it apart super hard because I'm not the most articulate person, haha. I just feel like Finn and Poe were utilized so much better in TFA. Their storylines were focused on just enough and never felt too separate from the main story. Kylo Ren didn't even really have an arc in TLJ--the movie teased that he might, and then he just went back to being blindingly evil at the end. Like aside from having more force control, how did Rey grow as a person by the end? Everyone just felt flat to me. Maybe it's just me, meh.
By all means, pick it apart. I won't demand articulatrion, haha.
Only two specific things I'd argue - one, that Kylo's arc, IMO, isn't done - his flirtation with leaving the dark side leaves the door open to a full rejection in RoS or, at a minimum, some flirtation with the possibility of his doing so, and second, that I'm not sure Rey was - paradoxic as it seems to say this - really one of the principle characters of TLJ, with respect to character development - in a lot of ways, she served mostly as a foil for Luke coming to terms with his own failures in training prior apprentices, notably Kylo, and the story arc in TLJ was really his, not hers.
TBH I feel like I'd have to rewatch it to offer a proper reply with it having been a good while since I've seen it. I just remember it having really bad pacing problems, and feeling disjointed. It can probably be attributed to the movie having changed directors during production, I dunno. The characters just felt flat and story was very unfocused and almost contradictory in a lot of ways. I agree that Rey was a big part of Luke's story, but I still don't think Rey necessarily grew as a character in her own right by the end. Finns story was so separate and ultimately pointless, it barely felt like part of the same movie. Bleh. I don't wanna sound like a grouchy old guy here haha!
I really need to rewatch it too, before seeing the Rise of Skywalker. And don't worry, I'm over here shaking my fist at clouds and wishing these kids with their skinny jeans and djent music would just get off my damned lawn.
The moment Leia went full Mary Poppins was when the knife was turned.
If I really wanted to be a dick I could pick apart bombs from the opening fight that somehow use space gravity, the stupid ass space chase because suddenly "tHe FiRsT oRdEr CaN TrAcK uS nOw", the idiotic and absolutely pointless side mission with Finn and Rose, or...the one moment Finn ALMOST makes his character relevant by destroying the mobile death beam nonsense on the sand planet...only for Rose to stop him at the last second for love. LOVE?! Couple that Finn somehow dragging her back across hundreds of meters of open area without getting shot at by the AT-AT's.
I saw the film once, and that was enough to burn so many fucking retard moments into my mind for forever. So yes, in regards of budget/lore/fan appreciation it is one of the worst films ever made.
TLJ also hinges on hyperspace tracking, which was only ever mentioned in passing in a movie set before the original trilogy. The whole just out of distance spaceship chase premise is ludicrous and was a decision no one was forced to make. Every other Star War has at least a couple of years in between, but because of the choices the director made it ends up happening immediately after the last.
I think some of you need to watch The Last Jedi, and then immediately go watch A New Hope.
I pretty much hated everything in TLJ. Thankfully I don't know if I remember everything at this point, but some things I unfortunately can't seem to forget:
The movie starts with some jokey dialogue between Poe and that bad guy with orange hair or something. That was super cringe to me, not funny at all, and a really bad start for the movie.
The falling bombs were stupid, but whatever.
Snoke dying just like that. You're gonna set up this big bad guy, and then he's SO USELESS that he suddenly just dies halfway through the second movie?? That SUCKS.
Leia flying. At first I was pretty impressed, like "Wow, they just killed her off just like that. That actually takes some balls!" And then... "Wait, what is going on? Oh no?? NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!"
The purple hair woman being annoying and not saying anything. Like, what is your problem???? You are super annoying!! Why can't you just explain?!?
Finn and Rose's side adventure that ended up accomplishing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING, WHY WERE YOU IN THE MOVIE???
Then when Finn was about to sacrifice himself the stupid movie tricked me into thinking he was actually gonna end up getting something done, and then... Nope, the equally useless girl rams his vehicle, says something lame about love and they kiss. For real???? This is a joke, right?
Oh, and Luke...
Well, that character wouldn't act like that. I can't see how that's a continuation from the original trilogy. It's another character entirely. I feel bad for Mark Hamill.
I saw TLJ with my mom/sister back when it was in theaters and they both hated it. That's pretty telling when even super casual fans were pissed off with how TLJ went.
It was a flat out shitty movie in terms of writing/plot and execution.
Solo was excellent though.
Mandalorian is great. I love the lone wolf and cub in SPAAACE vibes.
I did the same with wife/daughter, ugh, what a chore to sit through that heap of shit for all of us.