SSO: Deep Thoughts

wheresthefbomb

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tubes are antiquated tech. the "innovation" was moving away from them. there are SS rectifier and preamp tube analogues on the market, and a brief googling looks to reveal that SS power tube analogues have been tried and just never caught on.

I don't mess with digital, but I play a lot of both SS and tube amps and the differences are absolutely negligible in terms of overall output. the only meaningful difference IME is that you (usually) just need a lot more SS wattage to get comparable headroom.

it sounds like the real issue you're having is that digital modeling just isn't there yet. call me a luddite, but that's what you get for buying a magic computer that tries to do everything, especially when most of you dorks are just modeling the same few amps anyway.

like an instant pot, it might be 101 functions in one, but it's 101 shitty versions of each individual function, and most people are just cooking rice and beans in it anyway.

I'll stick to my pressure cooker and crusty old SS amps, the longer people stay obsessed with t00bs and modelers the longer I can keep scoring Peavy Standards for $75
 

MaxOfMetal

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One thing I would love is a like an AxeFX or a Kemper type thing, but just one amp. I don't need the versatility of 500 amps with 10 times the tweakablity of a normal amp, I want 1 amp. Sell an amp that is just a perfect model of an amp.

Fender is doing that now with their "Tone Master" series.
 

nightlight

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tubes are antiquated tech. the "innovation" was moving away from them. there are SS rectifier and preamp tube analogues on the market, and a brief googling looks to reveal that SS power tube analogues have been tried and just never caught on.

I don't mess with digital, but I play a lot of both SS and tube amps and the differences are absolutely negligible in terms of overall output. the only meaningful difference IME is that you (usually) just need a lot more SS wattage to get comparable headroom.

it sounds like the real issue you're having is that digital modeling just isn't there yet. call me a luddite, but that's what you get for buying a magic computer that tries to do everything, especially when most of you dorks are just modeling the same few amps anyway.

like an instant pot, it might be 101 functions in one, but it's 101 shitty versions of each individual function, and most people are just cooking rice and beans in it anyway.

I'll stick to my pressure cooker and crusty old SS amps, the longer people stay obsessed with t00bs and modelers the longer I can keep scoring Peavy Standards for $75

Modelling has its place. Try mixing up that Peavey Standard at a show or in a studio. I'd rather run my Kemper direct to FOH, with a Power Station and a 1x12 for monitoring instead of trying to get a good tone out of my Engls. So much more portable and convenient for a "poor musician" without roadies.

Digital has given tonnes of people a real chance to get good tones on stage and in the studio. And the price point, while high for the top of the line modellers, is actually pretty reasonable for what you get, especially when buying used.

That said, if I had the option and the gigs to justify it, I'd cart along my Savage. It's got midi capability, so you can turn on and off functions, switch channels, etc. And it sounds good at low volumes too. Just a pain in the ass to move around.
 
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nightlight

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Another thought: In the last 20 years, have we only kept guitar exciting by adding more strings to the neck? Worth thinking about.
 

broj15

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tubes are antiquated tech. the "innovation" was moving away from them. there are SS rectifier and preamp tube analogues on the market, and a brief googling looks to reveal that SS power tube analogues have been tried and just never caught on.

I don't mess with digital, but I play a lot of both SS and tube amps and the differences are absolutely negligible in terms of overall output. the only meaningful difference IME is that you (usually) just need a lot more SS wattage to get comparable headroom.

it sounds like the real issue you're having is that digital modeling just isn't there yet. call me a luddite, but that's what you get for buying a magic computer that tries to do everything, especially when most of you dorks are just modeling the same few amps anyway.

like an instant pot, it might be 101 functions in one, but it's 101 shitty versions of each individual function, and most people are just cooking rice and beans in it anyway.

I'll stick to my pressure cooker and crusty old SS amps, the longer people stay obsessed with t00bs and modelers the longer I can keep scoring Peavy Standards for $75
With you on this 110%. Output transistors go BRRRRR.

Edit & to add: I don't really mess with digital amps either, but I will say that all the coolest and most out there sounding effects in terms of reverb and delay are digital and a current zoom multi-stomp is a great utility piece of gear for time based effects. I have one that's permanently married to my hardware synth/drum machine set up and if I hadn't just bought and afterneath V3 (also digital) I'd be getting one for my guitar pedal board.
 
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wheresthefbomb

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With you on this 110%. Output transistors go BRRRRR.

Edit & to add: I don't really mess with digital amps either, but I will say that all the coolest and most out there sounding effects in terms of reverb and delay are digital and a current zoom multi-stomp is a great utility piece of gear for time based effects. I have one that's permanently married to my hardware synth/drum machine set up and if I hadn't just bought and afterneath V3 (also digital) I'd be getting one for my guitar pedal board.

Totally on board with digital effects. Afterneath, Darkstar, and Time machine are the core components of my live sound. Also love my dearly departed Alesis Qudraverb.

Modelling has its place. Try mixing up that Peavey Standard at a show or in a studio.

Not sure I understand this. I have definitely used a variety of SS Peaveys live, both individually and as part of larger wall-o-doom setups. It comes down to knowing how specific amps/cabs respond to different rooms, and how they interact with themselves/each other when you get into channel bridging and daisy chaining, often essential to get the most out of older SS units.

I will say that while modeling isn't for me, some of my favorite bands like Nadja use modelers live and I can't argue with either their rationale (portability vs wall-o-doom) nor their results. It just isn't for me, and I strongly believe the large majority of the modeler consumer base is just responding to the whims of neoliberal consumption logic which states that more tech=better without ever stopping to ask if it's a good idea to put a computer into a dildo.
 

TedEH

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it sounds like the real issue you're having is that digital modeling just isn't there yet. call me a luddite, but that's what you get for buying a magic computer that tries to do everything, especially when most of you dorks are just modeling the same few amps anyway.
IMO, to say that digital "isn't there yet" just sounds like you haven't tried the right digital setup yet - and I say that as someone who gets pretty snobby about my tube amps. For the longest time, I said digital couldn't do it, but I think the real barrier now is how you're listening to it. The models have gotten very convincing in the last while. If you want it to sound like an amp in a room, you have to turn it into an amp in a room, use a cab, etc. The problem is not the digital model, it's playing it back through a little powered monitor and expecting that room-filling gut-punching air movement experience that you'd get from a cabinet that takes three people to move.
 

wheresthefbomb

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IMO, to say that digital "isn't there yet" just sounds like you haven't tried the right digital setup yet - and I say that as someone who gets pretty snobby about my tube amps. For the longest time, I said digital couldn't do it, but I think the real barrier now is how you're listening to it. The models have gotten very convincing in the last while. If you want it to sound like an amp in a room, you have to turn it into an amp in a room, use a cab, etc. The problem is not the digital model, it's playing it back through a little powered monitor and expecting that room-filling gut-punching air movement experience that you'd get from a cabinet that takes three people to move.

You're certainly correct. I haven't actually tried any digital setup at all, I was just musing in reaction to complaints about perceived shortcomings of digital as compared to analog.

Similarly, I can see plenty of evidence for the successful application of digital such as mentioned above in the example of touring doom/drone band Nadja (who don't even use cabs, they just only book gigs in places with sound systems powerful enough to meet their needs). I also think it's fair to say the use case and end goals of touring musicians are vastly different from the majority of modeler owners.

My personal critique and rejection of digital hinges more on analysis of neoliberal consumption logic than it does on application or results. You can get perfectly good beans, rice, etc from an instant pot as well, but I am skeptical of both for similar reasons. If anything, the original complaint I was responding to seems to me a result of being oversaturated with options rather than shortcomings of digital modeling, perceived or actual.

Even if I didn't believe that, though, I'm not one to reject something (solely) on principle of tradition. Far more talented and successful people than me have been making digital work for a long while now. Admittedly, I took a flippant, somewhat satirical approach to expressing myself because I'm also always down to bag on a fad.
 

bostjan

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Nonsense cost no cents if your sense were worth cents
It's nonscents for people to keep skunks as pets and remove their glands!
71e.jpg

You know it costs nearly $0.02 for the US mint to produce a penny! It makes no cents to keep them in circulation!

I wrote a drunken email once, luckily it bounced back, because it was just nonsents.

Here's another nonsense question: What would life be like to be blind, deaf, have no feeling of pain, and no taste or smell?
 

creepymcpeepers

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Dude
It's nonscents for people to keep skunks as pets and remove their glands!
71e.jpg

You know it costs nearly $0.02 for the US mint to produce a penny! It makes no cents to keep them in circulation!

I wrote a drunken email once, luckily it bounced back, because it was just nonsents.

Here's another nonsense question: What would life be like to be blind, deaf, have no feeling of pain, and no taste or smell?
Dude my dad had a pet skunk with the glands removed and believe it or not they make very good pets and are very clean and very house trainable
 

creepymcpeepers

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And
It's nonscents for people to keep skunks as pets and remove their glands!
71e.jpg

You know it costs nearly $0.02 for the US mint to produce a penny! It makes no cents to keep them in circulation!

I wrote a drunken email once, luckily it bounced back, because it was just nonsents.

Here's another nonsense question: What would life be like to be blind, deaf, have no feeling of pain, and no taste or smell?
My dad also had a crow and a raccoon
 

creepymcpeepers

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It's nonscents for people to keep skunks as pets and remove their glands!
71e.jpg

You know it costs nearly $0.02 for the US mint to produce a penny! It makes no cents to keep them in circulation!

I wrote a drunken email once, luckily it bounced back, because it was just nonsents.

Here's another nonsense question: What would life be like to be blind, deaf, have no feeling of pain, and no taste or smell?
You know what don’t make a good pet though… a fox you can’t teach them to use the bathroom outside
 

nightlight

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You're certainly correct. I haven't actually tried any digital setup at all, I was just musing in reaction to complaints about perceived shortcomings of digital as compared to analog.

Similarly, I can see plenty of evidence for the successful application of digital such as mentioned above in the example of touring doom/drone band Nadja (who don't even use cabs, they just only book gigs in places with sound systems powerful enough to meet their needs). I also think it's fair to say the use case and end goals of touring musicians are vastly different from the majority of modeler owners.

My personal critique and rejection of digital hinges more on analysis of neoliberal consumption logic than it does on application or results. You can get perfectly good beans, rice, etc from an instant pot as well, but I am skeptical of both for similar reasons. If anything, the original complaint I was responding to seems to me a result of being oversaturated with options rather than shortcomings of digital modeling, perceived or actual.

Even if I didn't believe that, though, I'm not one to reject something (solely) on principle of tradition. Far more talented and successful people than me have been making digital work for a long while now. Admittedly, I took a flippant, somewhat satirical approach to expressing myself because I'm also always down to bag on a fad.

You crapped on digital the because of an analysis of (and I'm going to hashtag this) #neoliberalconsumptionlogic rather than application or results? Because you're down to bag on a fad.

If someone says, "Can I trust you?", how do you respond hyok hyok
 

nightlight

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Whether or not you can trust me isn't up to me.

That's an interesting way to look at it. As Megadeth put it, "Trust hurts, trust is suffering". So I trust no one completely other than very close family and friends. Never anyone on the Internet though. Place is fertile grounds for all kinds of deceit.
 

creepymcpeepers

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That's an interesting way to look at it. As Megadeth put it, "Trust hurts, trust is suffering". So I trust no one completely other than very close family and friends. Never anyone on the Internet though. Place is fertile grounds for all kinds of deceit.
Here lately the internet seems like it’s old technology. I wonder when we’re going to look back at the internet like it was cable television or something. Or landline phones. What is the next big thing gonna be? It’s really hard to imagine.
 


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