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Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by SevenStringSam, Jun 17, 2010.
Seen it and been there and done it;I 100% agree.You play with fire you get burned.
From personal experience kick the wife out before she does something to herself and says you did it to her. My ex got drunk fell all over the place got bruises and then took pictures of them the next day. Week later I am getting charged and not matter what I say to the court I am a liar to them. Found out from her family a year later she had a guy on the side who she is now married too. She cheated on him too. Now I am a single parent and she moved away.
She just decided out of the blue to stop talking to me (about 3 or 4 weeks ago now) and completely ghosted me. Which im honestly not surprised by, because there were several signs i choose to ignore and they way she was treating me explained everything.
I have met someone else who is much more down to earth and mentally stable. I guess ill see how this one pans out...
I don't bother dating. It's a hassle and I'm just not fond of relationships or people for the most part...and I hate dates.
I did, however, recently acquire a submissive. I like him. He's low maintenance, fun, and at worst he stays only for the night so when I want my private space back he doesn't stick around long.
Does she know of your marital status and issues?
If yes... her reaction?
If no....ask yourself why you hid that
Sometimes, I'm in that same boat. Other people are exhausting.
Livin' the dream.
I see this is a little old but I'll throw my 2 cents in here. A couple guiding principles I use when asking myself similar questions:
1. If it's not hell fuckin' yeah, it's no.
2. If you have to ask, it's probably no, see above.
If it's any help I just ended my second marriage in somewhat similar circumstances, though I'm very much on my own and enjoying it presently. Either way, my condolences, I have deep sympathies for what you're experiencing.
What you "should" do is for you and you alone to decide, but I can tell you that if you start a relationship in dishonesty it will never be healthy. This new person will not likely take well to your shady behavior if you choose this path. I've inadvertently been the "other guy" in someone else's marriage because they misrepresented the openness of their marriage to me, and I ended a valued friendship over it. Dishonesty breeds more dishonesty forever and always.
I'm going in a slightly different direction. Its open all over now. So exploring what an open relationship is/means. technically speaking, this is exactly what I was looking for. Openness, and vulnerability in a perpetual state of mind.
the new person knows my relationship. My partner knows my feelings. Everyone knows everything.
New person's reaction is 'yes...but...' and therefor I'm not pursuing/pushing it any further. If she comes around, i'll question if its just a momentary weakness, or if she is on board.
not hiding anything. not lying to anyone. not in the game to use/manipulate/hurt/abuse/coerce anyone into anyone.
and even in my open-ness, i'm not actively seeking people. My open-ness is only reserved for someone interesting enough to come my way, and is on board.
guess the correct term of this is 'ethical non-monogamy'
Wasn't this the situation that started because of someone cheating? I have no criticism of the open thing - if it works for you it works for you, all the power to you - but does that solve the original conflict? If it does, then that's great. If you're doing this in any way in expense of what you wanted, then I don't know that I'd want to continue any form of relationship with someone who has already demonstrated that they're willing to break the boundaries of the relationship you already had. If you're happy, then I'm happy for you. If not, then I recommend being careful that you're not letting other people put their needs and wants before yours.
I'll give you props for making honesty and openness a priority. I'm a bit sad for you that the new person is no longer a thing. I hope that this arrangement works out for you, and I hope that you'll always remember to keep your own happiness a priority.
It's kind of complicated, but let me try explaining:
Prior to the affair, I always maintained the ethos that I am not perfect. I am happy with who or what I am, but I know I will never be 100% perfect for others. Likewise, others won't be perfect for me. The concept of "soul mates" never agreed with me, as we are expecting way too much from one individual. They are to fulfill our every need. They meet if financially, mentally, physically, sexually, emotionally, their intellect and sense of humor matches 100%. To expect that from a person alone never seemed fair to me.
Moreover, I never liked restrictions placed on humans. Our daily lives are so restrictive on what/who we can be in the open. But then they put further restrictions on us behind closed doors? In many parts of the world, certain acts, even between hetrosexual people is illegal. Even in North America (oral, sodomy, period sex, bdsm as a few examples). You add homosexuality into the mix, and it's even more restrictions. Which is something that always irritated me. We should be free to express ourselves and love whatever without government, or religion, or society, or culture, or tradition, history, ideas etc limit or cage us from doing so.
Moreover, I always maintained the idea that though affairs suck, and shouldn't be, I understand why they happen. People can't communicate, or their insecurities are always preventing them from growing or developing and evolving. I think affairs could be prevented if we are open with everything and not hide anything.
As such, the concept of open marriage/relationships always made sense to me. Mind you, these are my opinions specifically. It may not work for others.
In comes the affair. I am devastated. I am angry. I am hurt.
Tried lots of things but nothing helping, and anger is blinding me from all my otherwise logically thinking mind. And clouds me from accessing my open mindedness and kindness.
Society is also telling me to stay angry and kick out my partner, and there is no other way. Partly because of that, I held onto the anger and continue destroying myself. Tried therapy, and it kind of helped, but I already knew most of it.
I wasn't making sense of myself.
In comes this old highschool friend (new person). I didnt expect her to re-enter my life, and was not seeking her out either.
It suddenly dawned on me that I've been hypocritical. The new person made me realize, or reminded me just how powerful the high from a new person can be. And the idea of being chased by a new person is excessively exciting.
As such, I forgave my partner on the second aspect. 1st was I forgave her for being depressed and having mental illnesses, and self destructing in it. I can't hold that against anyone. The 2nd was I forgave her for sleeping with someone else. I didn't actually care about that act. As such, I forgave her 66%. Another 33% remains where I haven't forgiven her for hurting me, lying to me, and putting me at risk. However, she is trying, and I can see the effort she has been putting in herself and us, and correcting all her wrongs.
In doing so, I enforced open communication of everything! Regardless of how painful the conversation is, I am no longer hiding anything, and expect the same in return. Don't care who's feelings are being hurt, if it's in me, and I'm feeling it, I'm letting it out, and I'm forcing it out of others around me.
This is bringing my partner and I a whole lot closer. This is also fixing a lot of issues we had prior to the affair. Correcting all the wrongs. I went from 100% at the start of the relationship, to maybe 60% before the affair, to 10%after the affair, to about 90% now.
All the while this is happening with my partner, the new person and I are getting a lot closer. She knows everything, and I also told her how I feel. She saved me from my anger, and I can't thank her enough for that. But I so told her that if there is any remote possibility of her to reconsider in the future, I rather we just be platonic friends and keep it at that, that I'm not going to enforce her into anything.
My partner knows of how I feel about the new person..the new person also knows my situation. My partner also understands and has given me the green light. Painful conversations got us all to this point.
The new person and I are still talking and meeting up constantly. She has her own demons that I'm helping her with. I no longer have any expectations from this new relationship to go further than friends. But I'm leaving it on her to take it further, if she wants. She is tempted, but she still doesn't know how she feels about this, and needs more time to figure out her feelings and sort her demons out.
Till then, I'm busy self exploring and seeking out what happiness means to me.
my partner is busy digging deep into herself and working on her self.
We are working on ourselves and improving and getting stronger and closer together.
I am also working on the new person and helping her, as she helped me.
My partner is my primary. The new person, if it develops to anything more than platonic, would be secondary. Expectations are already clear on all sides.
Consent is observed everywhere, and everyone is in agreement and on the same page.
I am happy. It took me a while, but I am finally happy and feel liberated from a lot of things I felt were holding me back.
I am also happy that my recovery time post affair is significant shorter from what my therapists have said, and what I'm finding online. Most take years or a lifetime to recover, and always hold a resentment and seem to never fully step out of it. but I also realize that my personality and self-worth were independent to other people. As such, I'm not actually all that hurt as I thought I was.
Would I recommend anyone to go through what I did? No. But I went through hell to finally get to a better place, and I can finally stop being self-less and put myself first.
This was an interesting read.
I'm with you on that one. I'm of the opinion that given the vast number of people out there, it's very likely that anyone might find a high number of people they are going to be compatible with. On some level, the idea of monogamy might be a bit arbitrary, but I think I understand the appeal of it.
I think this is where our views would differ. Even if you take the view that monogamy is arbitrary, and people are imperfect, a relationship is a sort of social contract. Even an open relationship remains a social contract. There are still expectations and boundaries. To me, a willingness to break that contract is a line that you shouldn't cross - but I get that this is erring on the side of being harsh, and it's not a view for everyone. I know that I would not be able to handle starting a new kind of relationship with someone who already demonstrated a willingness to break trust in that way. Maybe you're a better person than me in this way.
I don't think this is something you can really enforce. You can be very adamant, but you cannot force a person to communicate all of their thoughts to you. In the end, you're left in a position of trusting that everyone is being as honest and open as they say they are. I don't mean this to suggest that anyone is not doing so - but I would be careful that you don't kid yourself about how much control you have over that element.
This has always been one of the things that turns me off of the idea of polygamy. People are messy. People get jealous or envious. People get competitive. Almost every relationship I've been involved in has had moments where people claimed to be ok with how you relate to other people, up until the point where they suddenly are not (and sometimes I'm the one guilty of that too). I can only imagine that the risk of that kind of drama goes up with each person you add into the equation.
At the end of the day, this is the important part, IMO. If you're happy, then I'm happy for you.
Kinda sounds like the wife did some DIY improv damage control... of the bullshit, duct tape, and WD40 variety
After some failed attempts at trying to find a caring woman, I decided for a 4th and final go. Thanks God dating apps.
So, I was considering the relationship I have with my submissive and the thought occurred to me that straight guys don't usually get that kind of thing.
He's not used to much and pretty green around the gills. Because of that he's been used and mistreated by people who didn't really want him to be himself.
It's my job to teach him stuff, introduce him to new experiences and provide a non-judgemental safe space for him to figure out who he is and what he wants both sexually and otherwise. He's free to do what he wants, and who he wants, but I'm around if he needs advice or whatever.
Sure there's the usual dom/sub stuff but it's because he likes it and wants that sort of care and dynamic.
I assume that when he's learned enough I'll uncollar him and he'll go off and do his own thing with the knowledge and experience of everything he's learned with me, and hopefully he'll be a lot better at understanding and communicating his needs with whoever he ends up with (he's kinda set on marriage and kids so maybe he'll go that route).
Point is, I don't think it happens with straight guys too often that an older woman kinda takes them in and teaches them things, helps them through their insecurities/issues, and trains them to be more confident in themselves so they can do better in their relationships...which sucks.
I honestly wish everyone had that advantage because there would be a lot fewer lost people in the world trying to navigate relationships and hoping to get it right.
^ I think that sounds like a pretty shallow view of how relationships work. Most people come out of most relationships having learned something about themselves (and in healthy situations that generally means they're more prepared to contribute to another healthy relationship than they were previously). And you've made the assumptions that other relationships are all based on the same wants and needs that yours is, and that most other people aren't as good and tolerant of other people, or as willing to partner up with someone of a different "experience" level than themselves. That kind of thing absolutely does happen in straight relationships, it's just not as edgy to talk about it.
One of the things you learn after being in relationships with a number of people is that no two people on the planet seem to have the same idea of what a partnership is supposed to be or mean. And age has little to do with it. I would be willing to bet orientation has nothing to do with it either. There's all kinds out there.
You learn from every relationship..however often times you learn things the hard way and it takes some time to learn things about yourself and how you interact with others. Not to mention lots of people have cycles of getting into bad relationships due to past traumas and other such things.
Not many people get an opportunity to be involved with someone where they sort that shit out and pretty much "stop time" to develop themselves and unlearn negative behaviors. Often times relationships are a trial and error thing, and there's no manual on how to navigate such situations.
It's especially beneficial for people who have more on their plate than the average person and they're trying to figure out their unique wants and needs while dealing with the damage of what's been done to them in the past.
BDSM and other such things aren't a strictly homosexual activity..however it seems to be more accepted for gays and seen more as some misunderstood weird kink to straight people..which is why we have misleading nonsense like 50 Shades Of Grey. I think it's also a cultural thing and based on what's often the gay experience growing up, finding acceptance, guidance, discipline, and actual care is often pretty hard.
Right now there's sort of a new sexual revolution where people are defining their wants and needs, choosing to have relationships outside of the monogamy mindset, etc..but that stuff has been going on in gay culture for a long time and is nothing new. Gender roles, relationship archetypes, and all those things aren't one size fits all, more and more straight people are starting to realize it's not a "weird kinky" thing but tailoring relationships in a way that's healthiest for them. Things outside of the monogamous missionary sex, male roles and female roles dynamic were often seen as weird, or freaky and that holds especially true when you factor in different racial backgrounds/cultures.
All the stuff that's part of this new sexual mindset of today, LGBT folk have been doing since forever. It's just we were considered deviants for doing it.
I think we'd have to agree to disagree. Outside of the sex-specific bits (because relationships are not just sex), most of what you said is pretty universal, as far as I can tell. I won't claim to speak for anyone else, but my experience has been that pretty much every relationship I've known in any detail was about just as much about the partnership and growth of both (all?) people involved. Maybe I'm biased by the kinds of relationships I tend to get into or something.
i may be off base here, but I think what @DrakkarTyrannis (please correct me if i have a flawed understanding here) is trying to imply is not only the difference between gay/straight relationships, or dom/sub type relationships, its boiling down to kink/vanilla personalities.
yes, sex is a HUGE factor in many relationships, but the emphasis placed on sex is different based on different peoples version of libido, interests, and understanding of sex. it is a sexual revolution for one to dismiss any notions thrown at them based on their cultures/society/religion/upbringing/traditions, that they just move on from one relationship to another, doing the same thing and not really learning as much about themselves, as they possibly could learn.
case in point: i am straight. 100% straight. However, i was also born and raised in a VERY string and religious country (Saudi Arabia), to Pakistani parents, which view homosexuality as not only a sin, but also something that just 'does not exist' and dismiss it. As such, there is a possibility that I may be Bi, but I was never given that opportunity to explore my sexuality because of my surroundings of what is considered norm. Had i been born/raised in a more open society, I may have had the freedom to at least explore. Even after going through that, I may have concluded myself that yeah, i am straight, or that 'i tried it. I learned from it, and it wasn't for me'.
likewise, we, often times, are so ashamed of our own kinks that we cant seem to explain that to our partners, out of fear of rejection or judgement. I dont know, but for example, say I am really into feet, and have a foot fetish. If I meet person A, who says shes open minded and we get along on almost everything. But if I tell her that i want her to do stuff involving her feet, she gets grossed out and runs away. or that she does it half-assed just to 'tick the box' as a duty, and not be enthusiastically exploring that kink with me.
as such, the BDSM world does seem intriguing. at least to me. I think I've always been either a dom, or switch, but I've never had a partner willing to explore it due to their own reservations to sex, so I by default become dominating, but maybe not dom?