SS Love and Relationships Thread

[glpg80]

I wan't questioning that there might be mixed signals, but that her behavior from your first post didn't seem wildly different as I was reading (but it is all written in hindsight so some of that is to be expected).

As for advice on that subject, dating should be pretty clear cut. If you have to ask you probably aren't. I assume you are saying that you weren't officially dating, but her body language and general communication came across as if she might eventually be more interested. If this is the case it's like a mirror image to my past situation I went through several years ago. I let it be known from the get go that I liked her a lot, but she wasn't as interested. So she thought, or so I assume, that the only way to keep me around was to flirt with me, and other such stuff, every now and then or I'd just bolt. My situation was still very ambiguous during that time period and looking back when I can reflect on it I lean back on the idea that if you have to ask or think about it you probably aren't dating so dating etiquette seems to go right out the window, even if it can sometimes present itself in poor taste.

I definitely don't do friend-zone after any interest has been even slightly hinted. If I'm not someone's top priority then I refuse to be someone's second best. I have a level of self respect for myself, and I'm not willing to sacrifice for anything less than total honesty and commitment from both ends.

Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of that in conjunction with everything else. If her ex caused her to have trust issues, then she claimed she only didn't want to be with you because of trust issues, then she goes back to the ex anyhow, it certainly defies all logic and I imagine stings quite a bit.

Yeah, that hurts when you word it that way

She said she wasn't going to get back with him, but that she didn't know to what extent he was back in the picture. Whatever the hell that means in women-speak. I feel like I need an enigma machine for god sakes. Regardless, I believe the problem is that her parents are both really really intelligent, and that they won't allow her to date this dude. The problem is that she needs daddy's consent and I know this by talking with one of her friends about the subject of their bumpy past-relationship and both of them being on good terms. The fact she's now an adult and still does that shows an unhealthy-ish type of father-daughter relationship in my opinion. Something at least doesn't sound right about it, but it fits both what I know about her and some of the things her dad has done for her in the past.

I'd definitely call that a lead-on, in hindsight, with no intention of follow through. The little nugget to keep you content to stick around, if you were the type to bail when feelings are denied (from her perspective).

I'm the type to bail because I have high standards all around. I know when the girl friend thing works out and what it should feel like in a relationship. Again, I refuse to ever be anyone's second best, even if it was out of poor judgement initially. Life's too short to wait for .... like that to happen and honestly it's not healthy in my eyes. Kudos for you sticking around with your girl friend through that though. I wouldn't say we couldn't be friends, but you mentioned age being a factor here and it certainly is. At this moment in her life I feel like everything still seems like high school to her. She can cop out with the feminism BS to make up for any indifferences that guys need to land the jobs, interviews, and opportunities.

Odd how this seems so similar on the friendship/relationship aspect, even down to the lies. I'm not sure what to make of some of it though, you seem to have nailed it on the short leash. I almost want to say there has to be a mystery third person involved here - especially wanting to befriend the ex who broke her heart after she admits still loving him. Being spiteful, I wouldn't put it past her to do such a thing to throw it in his face to be honest. I also feel like she throws that L word around too much, and truely doesn't know what it's like to lose the love of parents or a close friend. Just IMHO.

Yeah your re-write changes the context quite a bit. If you were forward at all, like she stated, some of it would still be understandable, even if only emotionally driven, but the fact that she'd dangle the opportunity just under your nose is just as forward. It would appear her intentions were just different in hindsight. I'd say you ended up in the stereotypical friend-zone (the kind where someone is deliberately put there by misleading behavior from either party, not just simply denied).

Yeah, it's a fault I have. I simply cannot do friendzones. You either have feelings for someone or you don't - none of that back and forth bullshit. For starters it shows cowardice, and secondly it isn't fair nor right to dwell. If friendships are intended you definitely know ahead of time when meeting someone of the opposite sex. At least all of my female friendships have been that way.

In like a playful trash talking sort of way or in a I want to make you feel awful sort of way? In either case dwelling on it isn't necessary if your intention is to drop this situation like a hot potato.

She knew I was denied, and she knew I was denied with higher credentials at the time because I told her that story. She did it out of pure seed-planting hatred. She even bragged about having the option to choose from another company or that one that I tried and was denied from. That's downright ....ing disrespectful.

So are you saying that you'd have major issues with your friendship/relationship due to the spiteful comments even if the rest didn't happen? Would you have done anything about it had the rest not happened?

Assuming none of the other stuff was going on and we were on good terms I would have probably high fived her on it because that company is not easy to land internships with. I'm passive, blunt, but never spiteful or hateful. Maturity is knowing which battles to pick and which ones to let slide - that would have been one to slide had the other stuff not have been a part of the friendship decision.

She definitely lied and misdirected towards the end of your original post, but I just took it more as she knows you are very interested in her, and apparently some interest exists with her as well, so she was cowardly attempting to avoid a situation.

Makes sense. This was during final exams, so it was really stressing both of us. I honestly shouldn't care, but I do hope it didn't affect her grades.

Again, literally the same scenario happened to me within this old friendship I've been bringing up. On an official level we were just friends, but she knew I wanted more than that so when she went to see her ex she lied about it and didn't tell me anything. It's probably in poor taste, but the fact that it can be a group behavior leads me to believe its just human error at coping with confrontation and stress. I do agree it doesn't show particularly good leadership skills and arguably poor judgment.

You're right. It doesn't show good leadership skills or good judgement. Especially to do something like this during final exams - you would think she would have more self respect and respect for me to wait until afterwards, or at least not leave it hanging by emotional and physical isolation during final exam period. Literally felt like she was doing her damnedest to throw me under the bus.

If this is the case why did you want to date her in the first place and how were you still able to 'click' with her?

Because she made me happy. We had a future in our eyes that could work. We both love the same field, and that could have worked. We both want kids later in life. Both had skillsets that benefited one another, and we both saw eye to eye. I dunno man, it's hard to explain. Part of me feels like I was in love with someone who was hollow on the inside and it was all smoke and mirrors. The other part of me seems to think she saw something she liked more at the beach (not bob) with that formal event. Another part of me believes she did it out of spite against men and just decided to do her best to toss me aside like trash even though she tried to apologize for leading me on "if" she did so. Lies man, just constant, flowing, undeniable lies that lead to a washout of no ability to gain or work any form of trust out of it all.

Okay, this makes more sense now. She got the friends in the 'divorce' kind of thing.

I'm half tempted to throw her friends overboard along with it. At my age I have no time or care for any drama, and honestly it is not going to help keeping them around in moving on. I honestly don't even see the reason why in the first place, it's not like we would ever hang out and do anything to begin with - especially one girl who is her do or die friendship. Just left scratching my head over all of this.

I figured as much and it'd probably paint a more clear picture. Assuming this is an accurate portrayal of the events, it would seem a bit childish and that things got pretty heated between everyone involved.

It got very heated, and it will still be heated as next semester fires back up. I have been warned by family that I am not to even acknowledge her existence once we start back, I don't even owe her the time of day let alone any of my attention. Sad that it came to that, but it is what it is.

Relating back to my old fling again, the temperature of the relationship was definitely fully in her control; so if it's anything like that then one minute she's probably cool with the flirting and forward or boyfriend-like behavior, but when she decided to go with someone else its all of a sudden unacceptable again. It fits her age IMO. It's all about them and their feelings and what they want. As far as personal rights go that's perfectly fine. No one can force another to do something they don't want to, but it is indeed childish to not fully commit or string people along just so you can have a safe backup friend who can be your pseudo-boyfriend when it's convenient (that's definitely how I felt about it at the time).

I will disagree - the way she acted was very narcissistic. "I'm sorry I did this to you, I'm in control here, etc" Just her mentality was never we, us, asking how I felt about the friendship but only how it benefited her, etc.

Being an empathetic person, I fell for it and it's been a struggle to get back out of that hole. I'll be alright, but it will take time. Lots and lots of time. If anything it was a lesson to be learned on many fronts, and it will be a test to see if I can uphold the amount of self respect for myself that I also give to others.

I do agree with the rest of it, and yes it was extremely childish. I don't expect it to end - in her eyes she has won the battle, why would she change her habits? I feel like she may have won the battle, but I will have won the war. Being independent, there's a plethora of ways you analyze situations in a different manner, and it builds character because of it. Nothing she knows anything about as it's always to her benefit in her eyes.

Okay, so there were definitely some inconsistencies and lack of transparency for sure. The rest I still feel's on point (perhaps in a rude way she is still doing what she clearly thinks is right and you clearly aren't happy with how things turned out so you walked away), although I'd put the emphasis on both of you rather than just you, as I did before. Now, admittedly it is hard to read signals when people deliberately make them murky so as to keep people on a short leash. She definitely could have been more clear about everything and in the future I'd suggest my earlier advice:

if it's hard to tell that you're in a relationship, or someone at anytime physically claims they don't want to be or can't be in a relationship, don't bother trying much harder or getting too invested.

Talk like that means you're always 2nd or 3rd choice even if they end up dating you later on (especially with her moaning to you about her ex). Couple that with the 'girl talk' about exes, boyfriends and the like and I'd say it doesn't seem like you had a shot at a full on relationship beyond a rebound/backup anyhow (in hindsight).

I needed to hear this. It follows my true dating guidelines and why I never go seeking a relationship when the time isn't right. Right now, school has been and will always be my top priority. There's 10's of thousands of dollars at stake here on my end, and she has no skin in the game as her parents have her covered. It's a reality check for both personal and educational points of view. Engineering is weird like that - get a head too big and it will definitely knock you down a size and bring you back to reality. That I have learned quite a bit and I respect the field as a student at the moment knowing I have to have my priorities straight.

Yeah, you definitely need to distance yourself physically and emotionally from this situation no matter what. If you do decide to be friends again leave it for the distant future. Get some peace of mind and just move on first. She's flawed like most humans and she has issues that you were saying are deal breakers for a relationship anyhow. In my mind that means you didn't lose much on that front. Seems like your better off pursuing other interests or just focusing on yourself for the time being. Worry about amending the friendship once you get to a point of indifference about this situation.

 

[TedEH]

If I'm not someone's top priority then I refuse to be someone's second best.

More advice you probably don't want lol: Refusing to be anything but top priority for another person is an unhealthy premise to build a relationship on. It's very unlikely you'll ever be someone's first priority all the time. #1 is self for most people (they won't admit it, but it's the truth, and nothing is wrong with that). Family will usually take priority over you. If you ever have kids, the kids will come before you. Friends that your partner has known longer than you might take priority sometimes.

 

[glpg80]

paragraphs of good information to heed

as for the fall, man up and say you let your emotions get the better of you and that you're sorry. she can take it or leave it. but its the right thing to do and would make life easier as it goes on

Here's the kicker, I've already done that and she still acted in isolation, guilt, and ignoring. I went old school and left a note on her windshield during the day once. I had not planned it, was just a spur of the moment decision when I saw her car. I apologized for overstepping any boundaries not mentioned and that I just wanted to be on good terms with one another. She still continued to act like a bitch. Ball's in her court, not mine. I've washed my hands over it, just trying to look back and analyze what has happened and make sure I learn as much as a I can from it all.

 

[glpg80]

More advice you probably don't want lol: Refusing to be anything but top priority for another person is an unhealthy premise to build a relationship on. It's very unlikely you'll ever be someone's first priority all the time. #1 is self for most people (they won't admit it, but it's the truth, and nothing is wrong with that). Family will usually take priority over you. If you ever have kids, the kids will come before you. Friends that your partner has known longer than you might take priority sometimes.

When I say top priority, I mean in terms of another person and not over one's self love, kids, family, etc. Thanks for adding to the clarification, but I already know this and do not expect to be put on a pedestal. If anything, that's a lesson that I learned here with her.

 

[flint757]

...
I will disagree - the way she acted was very narcissistic. "I'm sorry I did this to you, I'm in control here, etc" Just her mentality was never we, us, asking how I felt about the friendship but only how it benefited her, etc.
...

I agree with you that it is poor behavior and is a bit immature. I just mean she has the right to do so in the sense she's not under any obligation to do what someone else wants in a literal sense. It coincides with TedEH's point that she owes you, or anyone else, nothing. The same applies for you as well though. You don't have to put up with a situation that is causing you problems. Empathy is always a good path to take, but it is not a required one. It just tends to be the more humane, mature approach. There are boundaries though and once crossed hard decisions have to be made.

 

[glpg80]

You're not lying about hard decisions being made. It's taken 4 weeks and a lot of self counseling with extremely close friends whom I trust with my life, along with discussing this with my parents, to assess the decisions made under stress at the time and even get to this point.

I've removed social media, blocked her from anything I can think of, and generally have done my best to just wipe any form of existence of the past from my phone, texts with friends over it, and even her cell number.

Misery loves company, and I was fine before I met her. The sooner I can emotionally move on from this the better. The fact all of this was able to get this far in such a short time shows something was wrong from the get go.

Over all of this discussion that we've made, this all happened in a matter of like 6 weeks. You would have thought it happened in 6 months. That's just how fast things were moving between us.

 

[Ibanezsam4]

Here's the kicker, I've already done that and she still acted in isolation, guilt, and ignoring. I went old school and left a note on her windshield during the day once. I had not planned it, was just a spur of the moment decision when I saw her car. I apologized for overstepping any boundaries not mentioned and that I just wanted to be on good terms with one another. She still continued to act like a bitch. Ball's in her court, not mine. I've washed my hands over it, just trying to look back and analyze what has happened and make sure I learn as much as a I can from it all.

the lesson is sometimes you don't get catharsis, and happy endings are rare and not neat and clean.

just work on not going head over heels this a woman that isn't sending the exact same signals back

 

[glpg80]

the lesson is sometimes you don't get catharsis, and happy endings are rare and not neat and clean.

just work on not going head over heels this a woman that isn't sending the exact same signals back

Yeah that is a lesson within a lesson. Signals were being sent back and forth (flirty text messages, wanting to spend time together every night, etc.) But the real lesson here is not letting my god damn guard down so soon. I'm disappointed in myself with how I'm handling it emotionally. But I do not feel as though I made any bad decisions as things unfolded given the circumstances of stress and final exams involved.

I do not plan to be a dick to anyone when uni starts back up, but I definitely feel as though I don't owe her the time of day, and she's been clear to show the same exact state of mind in return because I told her I didn't want to be friends, let alone best friends. As far as avoiding one another, I'm not changing my studying styles without disrespecting anyone. If disrespect is given in return, I'll do my best to be the better person and let it wash off like water. The age difference here really complicates the maturity aspect IMO. If anything she should respect the fact that I do not do the friendzone ordeal. But that's expecting something from someone - and I know from many life lessons before in my past that you cannot expect anything from anyone. Ever.

 

[TedEH]

If anything she should respect the fact that I do not do the friendzone ordeal. But that's expecting something from someone - and I know from many life lessons before in my past that you cannot expect anything from anyone. Ever.

You had me up until this point. Absolutely, "I do not plan to be a dick to anyone" is the right attitude. And sure, ideally, people should respect that you have no interest in being led on- but at the same time, remember that this kind of respect has to go both ways. You have to respect how people choose to conduct themselves and their relationships to the same extent as you would hope they will respect the way you do you. I see no good reason that you can't all just agree that you're strictly friends and leave it at that- no drama, no grey area, no antagonizing anyone. I'm not criticizing you per-se, I think you have the right idea, just need to be careful that you communicate it properly.

 

[Simic]

I just wanna thank the people who gave me advice on the previous page!

 

[glpg80]

You had me up until this point. Absolutely, "I do not plan to be a dick to anyone" is the right attitude. And sure, ideally, people should respect that you have no interest in being led on- but at the same time, remember that this kind of respect has to go both ways. You have to respect how people choose to conduct themselves and their relationships to the same extent as you would hope they will respect the way you do you. I see no good reason that you can't all just agree that you're strictly friends and leave it at that- no drama, no grey area, no antagonizing anyone. I'm not criticizing you per-se, I think you have the right idea, just need to be careful that you communicate it properly.

Here's the thing though. I simply don't trust her. The reasons that we cannot be friends extend back to how she was given literally everything her entire life since the day she was born. She complained that her 2011 car, daddy paid for, with keyless start and navigation, was an old vehicle. This is literally someone I do not want to help as a friend because we will never see eye to eye. Even as a friend she wouldn't want to hear what I have to say even if there was a mutual respect level which existed for one another. It's just not there, and honestly I doubt it ever will be.

There's also the aspect that once again, I prefer quality over quantity. We had a lot in common and she was the key to a happiness level I had never felt in a very long time. But our approach to life is from completely opposing backgrounds. She's extremely controlling, even to the point of playing the short leash game when we were talking. I'm not, will not, do not, support being one of her male cohorts that bow down to supporting that. Remember that she plays the leadership card and tries to be that leader of the pack mentality without actually knowing a damn thing about what it takes to actually do it. It really angers me that she tries to do that, because that's part of the reason I'm attending college much later in life, and part of the reason I have the debt under my own name once I graduate.

It's just I do not see any way shape or form to have a friendship with her. I was willing to try to make things work if a relationship was involved, but she was clear she didn't want that at all. I respect that wholeheartedly. The flipside is that I never do friendzone and I do not want a friend who has yet to find themselves. I just feel like she doesn't care, and I'm done caring on any front end. She can find that support elsewhere and It will help me in having closure by removing any chance of previous feelings ever coming into play with her ever again.

 

[TedEH]

Here's the thing though. [...] It's just I do not see any way shape or form to have a friendship with her. I was willing to try to make things work if a relationship was involved

IMO, that's the source of your problem. If you can't even be friends, a relationship was never going to work anyway. Lesson learned, I guess.

 

[glpg80]

IMO, that's the source of your problem. If you can't even be friends, a relationship was never going to work anyway. Lesson learned, I guess.

She's one of those that you're either for her, or against her. Women versus men mentality, and feminism through and through. I have tons of friends who I support in that regard - one of them being my friend I pulled aside in this - but she takes it to a whole different level of competitiveness that's unhealthy.

I told her there existed no trust between one another and that friendships are built on trust just as relationships are built on trust. Her actions were saying one thing, and her words were saying another. She had no desire to want to be friends the second she felt she had to start distancing herself when we hung out together or spent time in groups with others. Since when do you purposefully ignore or distance yourself from someone you want to be a best friend? This was what she wanted.

I have no problem helping people. I have no problem asking for help, or accepting when I am in the wrong. But you cannot help people who cannot help themselves. And you certainly cannot help people who don't want it to begin with anyway. Point being that friendships are there for help and guidance. They are there for fun and memories.

I feel like that's just the way it is in this ordeal. Is it sad? yeah, we both are losing out here in the long run. I feel like there could be a lot both of us could learn from one another, but not with that us vs. them mentality which exists. I definitely do not feel that with any of my other friends male or female. With her, it's different.

 

[Maybrick]

Out of interest - how long was it before you guys told your partner(s) you loved them?

 

[BucketheadRules]

Out of interest - how long was it before you guys told your partner(s) you loved them?

I've never said it to anyone.

I've been wondering this myself tbh - we haven't been together very long at all but we both feel pretty strongly about each other. I'm fairly sure it's not gonna be long before I say it, because I'm fairly sure it's true... but then, how can I be sure? Do you really love someone after such a relatively short time together? The more I think about her and talk to her, and the more time we spend together, I become sure of it though. And I'm pretty certain she feels even stronger about me.

 

[UnderTheSign]

Out of interest - how long was it before you guys told your partner(s) you loved them?

Like a year for both of us I think.

 

[vividox]

Out of interest - how long was it before you guys told your partner(s) you loved them?

With my wife, it was about 6-7 months.

The girl I dated right before my wife, it was about a month, and falling so fast and saying it so quickly (when I probably didn't really mean it yet) was part of the reason I got cold feet and ended it.

 

[Seybsnilksz]

I'm a sexually frustrated virgin that wants to love and be loved. I haven't even kissed a girl. Sounds silly right? A lot of you have been there? Yeah, well, I guess I'm not searching for help. I just want to write things down.

And yes, I try to do things that makes me happy, and I am happy a lot of the time, but it is absolutely impossible to keep myself occupied 100% of the time. At some point in the day, I'm going to be in a place were i think about this stuff.

I have a problem with jealousy when it comes to this area. I hate to watch other people fall in love and such. When I realise that I'm watching two people getting attracted to each other, I get a bad feeling in my stomach that kinda ruins my mood a little bit. It's extremely difficult for me to be happy for others when I myself never seem to get in those situations.

I know that my time will come, but knowing that doesn't help me much at this point.

I wish I had a switch that made me able to completely stop thinking about these things, but I don't have a clue how to do that. I strongly believe that love will be the single biggest thing that causes me happiness in life, and I can't just completely ignore that until it comes. No matter how much I want to.

I feel no pressure from friends, they just say that I should stop thinking about it. I want to, but as I said, I don't know how.

So a lot of people say that it will come when I stop trying, and a lot of people say that one should get out and get what he wants. I get very confused because of this.

Pseudo-teenager-rant over. I know some of you guys have real problems to talk about.

TL;DR
You are as impatient with texts as I am with love.

 

[Maybrick]

I've never said it to anyone.

I've been wondering this myself tbh - we haven't been together very long at all but we both feel pretty strongly about each other. I'm fairly sure it's not gonna be long before I say it, because I'm fairly sure it's true... but then, how can I be sure? Do you really love someone after such a relatively short time together? The more I think about her and talk to her, and the more time we spend together, I become sure of it though. And I'm pretty certain she feels even stronger about me.

Its hard isnt it. Its hard to know when youre saying it because you want to love that person and when you actually do. The only thing you can do is just wait it out for half a year or so as essentially there is no rush in saying it. You dont get any benefit or gain from saying it quickly, if anything its just bad because it could be that youre just saying it to convince yourself.

I've been with my girl for about 5-6 months at the moment and I do love her and Im convinced she loves me too but at the same time I want to give it some extra time and just say it when it feels comfortable. Last thing I want to do is make it sound forced or like ive been preparing to say it.

This then brings me onto something else - is saying to a girlfriend "love you" different to "I love you"?

I've always wondered it, maybe its me just looking into it too much but I never said to my ex who I was with for 3 and a half year "I love you" but said "love you" a lot before going to work etc and it was because in the back of my mind they were two things. I wasnt IN love with her.

 

[Maybrick]

I'm a sexually frustrated virgin that wants to love and be loved. I haven't even kissed a girl. Sounds silly right? A lot of you have been there? Yeah, well, I guess I'm not searching for help. I just want to write things down.

And yes, I try to do things that makes me happy, and I am happy a lot of the time, but it is absolutely impossible to keep myself occupied 100% of the time. At some point in the day, I'm going to be in a place were i think about this stuff.

I have a problem with jealousy when it comes to this area. I hate to watch other people fall in love and such. When I realise that I'm watching two people getting attracted to each other, I get a bad feeling in my stomach that kinda ruins my mood a little bit. It's extremely difficult for me to be happy for others when I myself never seem to get in those situations.

I know that my time will come, but knowing that doesn't help me much at this point.

I wish I had a switch that made me able to completely stop thinking about these things, but I don't have a clue how to do that. I strongly believe that love will be the single biggest thing that causes me happiness in life, and I can't just completely ignore that until it comes. No matter how much I want to.

I feel no pressure from friends, they just say that I should stop thinking about it. I want to, but as I said, I don't know how.

So a lot of people say that it will come when I stop trying, and a lot of people say that one should get out and get what he wants. I get very confused because of this.

Pseudo-teenager-rant over. I know some of you guys have real problems to talk about.

TL;DR
You are as impatient with texts as I am with love.

I honestly believe the jealousy thing stems from self confidence. Everyone in life gets jealous about something and no one can say they will never be jealous again but there are different levels. Definitely with relationships, I've been in the same position as you when it comes to girls. Especially when I was younger, it was all "Ahh I really fancy this girl but she likes this other better looking guy than me" and it got me down.

Having said that, I never did anything about it. I just moped around and like you, got told by friends that my time would come.

Best advice I can give you (like you've already identified) is to keep yourself busy. Look after your health - if you're eating loads of .... then that affects your mood. Work out and stick to it - you honestly feel so much better for doing so.
Lastly, try and get involved with as many social events as you can. Whether its hanging out with friends, going to partys, going out to social events with your colleagues if you work. Any chance you get to meet new people is great. You might think "But I hate meeting new people" or "Im really shy/timid around groups of people I dont know" but if you do then a) you have to start somewhere b) you be passing up an opportunity to meet a girl that you wouldnt usually meet.