SS Love and Relationships Thread

ftr

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I think i am starting to go down a more depressive road. I was pondering the idea of seeing an escort to kill this dry spell. There is extremely appealing ones in Atlanta. I tried to set up an appointment with this really gorgeous girl in Atlanta on Monday, but i didn't have any references, and couldn't be screened properly, so she is not down anymore. I was going to sign up and pay a lot for this site to screen me so i really wouldn't need references. Now i am thinking, what the .... am i doing, paying to be screened, to pay an escort, which i may not even be doing much. I was thinking of only doing this once or twice, but i know it would be bad if it became an addictive hobby. It's extremely tempting. I never thought i would get this close to paying to satisfy my needs. I am not even bad looking. There is this one girl that lives down the street who is a friend i went to school with little sister, and she is gorgeous and has good taste. It was the first time i seen her in years. I hung out with her last month with a group of friends and she seemed to like me and made some signs of interest i think, we only got to hang out for like 30 minutes though so i couldn't really tell. I added her on fb today. Thinking about starting a conversation later. It's a lot of pressure because it's something i would not want to .... up, given how awesome it would be if we became a thing. she could literally walk to my house every night.
 

TheHandOfStone

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Seeing escorts is fine IMO, but I wouldn't make fear of failure the reason you go to them. Most decisions I've made out of fear (in my case, social anxiety) have been ones that I've regretted. Easier said than done, of course.
 

ftr

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Talking to that girl that lives by me. She is definitely interested in going to some shows with me. I got her listening to Electric Wizard right now.
 

russmuller

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My most recent ex has been on a depressive roller coaster lately. She's clearly got some issues, and was previously diagnosed as bipolar. She refused to accept that information at the time because she (like many) had a stigma associated with mental illness, so she ignored the information and refused her meds. Now she's recognized that it doesn't make you less of a person because you suffer from a condition, and that a diagnosis + meds can help her and those around her to better deal with her episodes.

She's been suicidal the past 2 weeks, ruminating about how to take her life. Major warning signs. Fortunately, she's been able to talk about these things with a few friends and family members who have helped her from going over the edge. She's started seeing a clinical psychologist, but she agrees that she should probably be medicated to help stabilize her swings.

As a result of her depressive episodes, she's missed a lot of work and her job is in jeopardy. She's going to be fired unless a psychiatrist or MD will fill out some forms for her disability claim and it's almost impossible to see one on short notice unless you go into the hospital. So today she's checking herself in to a behavioral health facility. Hopefully she'll be able to see a doctor, get a prescription (without any bad reactions), and get her disability paperwork filled out.

If she hasn't checked in by the time I'm out of work, I'll go with her and hold her hand while she gets checked in. I'll be feeding her cat while she's in the hospital, and I'll visit her to make sure she's okay (someone she knows was raped while in a facility like that, so that's a big concern for her). I know that her situation is neither my fault nor my problem, but I believe that if I was going through something like that I would need all the help I can get. I'm determined to not be roped back into a relationship with someone just because I help their mental stability, but I genuinely care about her and I honestly think she'd be letting her situation get much worse without my support here.

So it is what it is. I'm not trying to date anyone else right now, so it's not like I feel held back from pursuing something that I want. But I'm not sure how I'd deal with it if she actually committed suicide. I'm so relieved she's finally trying to get help.
 

cwhitey2

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My most recent ex has been on a depressive roller coaster lately. She's clearly got some issues, and was previously diagnosed as bipolar. She refused to accept that information at the time because she (like many) had a stigma associated with mental illness, so she ignored the information and refused her meds. Now she's recognized that it doesn't make you less of a person because you suffer from a condition, and that a diagnosis + meds can help her and those around her to better deal with her episodes.

She's been suicidal the past 2 weeks, ruminating about how to take her life. Major warning signs. Fortunately, she's been able to talk about these things with a few friends and family members who have helped her from going over the edge. She's started seeing a clinical psychologist, but she agrees that she should probably be medicated to help stabilize her swings.

As a result of her depressive episodes, she's missed a lot of work and her job is in jeopardy. She's going to be fired unless a psychiatrist or MD will fill out some forms for her disability claim and it's almost impossible to see one on short notice unless you go into the hospital. So today she's checking herself in to a behavioral health facility. Hopefully she'll be able to see a doctor, get a prescription (without any bad reactions), and get her disability paperwork filled out.

If she hasn't checked in by the time I'm out of work, I'll go with her and hold her hand while she gets checked in. I'll be feeding her cat while she's in the hospital, and I'll visit her to make sure she's okay (someone she knows was raped while in a facility like that, so that's a big concern for her). I know that her situation is neither my fault nor my problem, but I believe that if I was going through something like that I would need all the help I can get. I'm determined to not be roped back into a relationship with someone just because I help their mental stability, but I genuinely care about her and I honestly think she'd be letting her situation get much worse without my support here.

So it is what it is. I'm not trying to date anyone else right now, so it's not like I feel held back from pursuing something that I want. But I'm not sure how I'd deal with it if she actually committed suicide. I'm so relieved she's finally trying to get help.

You sir are great facking human being. :yesway:


I myself was on her path many years ago. It is a tough and long road to recovery. I never had anyone. It was me, a psychiatrist and a prescription.

I wish you and her the best of luck on your journey.



The best part of this whole situation is that she finally realizes that she NEEDS help.
 

russmuller

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You sir are great facking human being. :yesway:


I myself was on her on many years ago. It is a tough and long road to recovery. I never had anyone. It was me, a psychiatrist and a prescription.

I wish you and her the best of luck on your journey.



The best part of this whole situation is that she finally realizes that she NEEDS help.

Thanks for the support, man. I agree, her recognizing that she needs help and actively taking steps to get it is really the most encouraging thing. I hope that she finds some real stability and help from this.
 

Simic

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Hey fellow SSO members, I've found myself in a very difficult situation and I'm not really sure what I should do... Thought I'd ask for some advice here... I hope I manage to condense my thoughts into something readable heh.. Excuse my english also.

Some background:
I have a girlfriend of 2 years - she is my first serious gf, and she has had 2 relationships in the past (1 lasting 4 years). Im 21, she's 23. We go to uni together (same year) so I see her every day and will continue to do so for at least 2 more years.

I initially I thought she was the one, she supports everything I do, has a similar sense of humor and listens to metal (hard to find around here, unless you're into goth chicks with mental issues) and is in general a beautiful human being. We never ever had a fight or a big argument. This may sound weird but if I compare our relationship to relationships of some of my best friends, I feel like ours is on a higher spiritual (?) level. This is probably what makes the whole situation even harder for me.

She is the kind of person that needs constant attention from their partner (me) - hugs, kisses, watching movies together, keeping in touch during the weekend while we're away etc. Im the exact opposite - I like to do things alone. I can go without human contact for days - I like to come home and play guitar, play CS:GO, study, browse SSo_Org (lol) without paying much attention to her if she's there. Im not an antisocial person by any means, I have a circle of very close friends with whom Im in daily contact - we study together, we get high AF together we go to parties together etc. Im also actually one of those guys that everyone in uni knows, I try to keep good relationships with everyone I meet and Im in a bunch of projects where I work with different people from 1st to 6th year which is why I know most of the students and staff there. In contrast, she doesn't have that many close friends which is why she always comes hangs out with me and my friends - she became a part of the squad if I can say so heh.

The thing is, over the period of the last 6 or so months, my feelings towards her changed significantly. I still care for her very much, but I'm not in love with her anymore. I actually feel like I fake some things in our relationship. I think the problem started this school year, because she became my school mate (after taking 1 year off last year). The first year of our relationship we hung-out every 2nd day or so and I was in paradise - we went to movies, parties etc on a SEMI REGULAR basis, but this year we've been together for almost every day since we're school mates and I sleep at her study flat during the week (and she comes home with me every 2nd weekend). Maybe Im not ready for this level of devotion yet, I dont know.

A lot of the little things she does/says that I found cute a year ago are now constantly annoying me. I was giving her a lot attention in the past, but now I find myself subconsciously neglecting - for example when we get home I'll go practice guitar instead of watching a movie with her, or I'll go over to my friends and get baked instead of staying home and doing something with her.
Even when we go out to party I hang out/talk/joke with my friends instead of her, sometimes we don't speak a word during the entire evening - of course she talks with others in the squad meanwhile, but I feel like she is suffering because she wants to be close to me and receive attention from me, not my friends. If she was the one doing that I wouldnt really care/notice, but as I said she needs attention and love and this has started to take a toll on her, it's like she's suffering. She has also cried cca once per 2 weeks when we went to sleep for the last couple of months. I calmed her down every time but I feel like she is suffering and it makes me feel horrible.

The stuff I wrote in the paragraph above - I don't do that .... on purpose, it's just how I function, I don't even think about it.

I've been thinking about breaking up semi-constantly for the last couple of months but I'm afraid that it would destroy her. She is attached to me far more than Im attached to her. In addition, exams are in a month and Im afraid breaking up with her would cause her to fail. Another thing I'm concerned about is that if we break up she'll automatically be 'kicked' out of the squad - she does have other friends but when it comes to group studying before exams, going out to party, going to lunch, coffee etc. she ALWAYS comes along with me and my friends, and these are daily rituals. If we break up, Im afraid this will no longer be possible since I cant imagine her staying friends with me since I'll probably break her heart.
On the other hand, I also feel not telling her how I feel is not fair towards her and I hate to see her suffer from my obvious lack of attention towards her. I think that my feelings wont go away with time and the longer I prolong this the harder it will get. If I am to do this, I need to do it before july, because we have our 2nd year anniversary then and she'll 100% buy me something nice (she likes buying big gifts) so it would really be a dick move to waste her money and then let her know that this isnt working.

TL;DR
I am no longer in love with my GF of 2 years. I think I want to break up but the problem is she is very dependent on me and I feel like it would break her.

So my fellow forum members, any advice on how I should handle this situation? I feel unhappy and I need to do something but it looks like a lose-lose situation in my eyes.

Sorry for the wall of text :ugh:
 

MFB

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If I had to wager, I'd say Russ would probably be your man to talk to about that scenario (provided he's willing to lend his support of course)
 

broj15

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The thing is, over the period of the last 6 or so months, my feelings towards her changed significantly. I still care for her very much, but I'm not in love with her anymore

Been there, done that (maybe even on both sides of the situation?). It's not fair to you or her to stay in a relationship that one or both of you aren't 100% invested in. I was with my ex for not quite 3 years or as I like to say about a year longer than I should've been. Sometimes it's not the actual person your in love with, but having someone around to spend time with (or a guaranteed lay). People are incredibly resilient and can bounce back from a lot of shit so I wouldn't worry too much about her long term well being. This debatable but I do think staying with her till your exams are over is commendable and maybe even a good idea. Dealing with exams and the end of a long term relationship would put her under a lot of stress. As far as the whole friends situation goes, that's inevitable when any long term relationship comes to an end. By the time me and my ex split my friends had become her friends and vice versa. I lost a couple in the fallout, but overall I'm much better off now and I know she is as well, and I'm sure the same will be said for you and your gf in time. Either way good luck with everything. Love is a minefield.
 

High Plains Drifter

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TL;DR
I am no longer in love with my GF of 2 years. I think I want to break up but the problem is she is very dependent on me and I feel like it would break her.

So my fellow forum members, any advice on how I should handle this situation? I feel unhappy and I need to do something but it looks like a lose-lose situation in my eyes.

Sorry for the wall of text :ugh:

It's not fair to her nor is it fair to yourself. You really need to talk with her about your feelings. Nothing will get any better if you simply suppress these kinds of thoughts. It doesn't even necessarily mean that you two should immediately split... but it needs to be communicated so that both parties are able to make decisions while considering honest aspects of the relationship. It's kinda your responsibility imo... same as if she had feelings like this... You would deserve to know and hopefully you would WANT to know. Always be respectful and listen to her feelings as well.. This is a very valid thing to discuss and no matter what ultimately happens, you will at least both be on the same page. Hopefully she feels as though she can be honest with you as well. If the relationship winds up worth saving, there are certainly avenues to travel in regards to counseling. Best of luck
 

russmuller

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TL;DR
I am no longer in love with my GF of 2 years. I think I want to break up but the problem is she is very dependent on me and I feel like it would break her.

So my fellow forum members, any advice on how I should handle this situation? I feel unhappy and I need to do something but it looks like a lose-lose situation in my eyes.

Sorry for the wall of text :ugh:

I'll echo broj15's advice.

It sounds like this relationship isn't right for you. I've definitely been in similar situations and I can tell you that it's possible to improve and prolong the relationship, but unless she develops her own independence it's not going to work. Simply put, it seems like your needs are mutually exclusive; no configuration will keep both of you happy.

You can't let someone's reaction to breaking up keep you a prisoner in a relationship. She's survived the end of a long relationship before, and she'll survive it again. Yes, you'll probably drift away from a few friends as a result. Be that from taking sides or simply from creating space so that she can lean on them without those friends feeling like they're caught in the middle of something, that's alright.

My ex of 5 1/2 years and I still pretty much have a mutual best friend, and that friend agrees that splitting up was a good idea. We never tried to make her pick sides and we're independently close with her. So splitting up doesn't always mean you'll lose friends or grow apart, just try to be as honest and mature about it as you can.

Sometimes even the neediest and clingiest of partners can surprise you when you're open and honest about your negative feelings in the relationship. If I were you, I'd wait until finals were over and then tell her that lately you've been feeling like your relationship isn't a healthy one. Be honest that your distance/coldness/aloofness/inattentiveness/whatever_you_want_to_call_it isn't out of cruelty, but simply because you need space and that you don't feel right that tending to your own needs brings her suffering. Let her know that you want her to be happy and fulfilled, but that you can't provide that in a way that's sustainable.

She might resist, she might argue, she might rationalize, she might break down, or she might surprise you. Be open, and remember that you're doing the best you can for both of you even if it hurts and it's uncomfortable.

That's a sticky situation, but I wish you the best of luck.
 

glpg80

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I need help on this one guys.

My background:

Working towards 3 degrees in 3 years, highly independent, try to keep my grades up, and have friendships which I hold close to my heart and would do anything to help those in need if asked. School, personal life, the guy drunken texts are sent to. Wear my heart on my shoulders and trust too easily in relationships. My parents raised me to grow up early and figure the real world out the hard way.

Her background:
Natural born leader. 8 years martial arts/blackbelt. Dad has a masters degree in engineering and has taught her everything she knows to get ahead in school. She's becoming president of an honors society, vice president of another honors society, sorority member for women in engineering.

Age difference is a problem here - 7 years between us and I'm the oldest.

The problem:
I saw this girl around campus at uni sitting isolated and studying, never thought anything of it. We met at one of the honor societies we're both members of - she was running for VP. We started talking about dogs, and there was chemistry between us.

Things moved quickly - we traded numbers and started talking a few weeks later. We had a lot in common - all the weird stuff it normally takes months to figure out. Both like to cook, sleeping temperatures, life goals, favourite foods, both are artistic, the list goes on and on. Said she wanted to watch certain movies together, loved that I was easy to talk to, wanted to take me out to deep sea fishing with her family since they live on the coast, etc. We hung out and went to the movies, but it was always with friends and never just us. She seemed like she wanted to get attached, but not too attached to the point of others noticing which was understandable given we had not known each other very long and she has a reputation to uphold. Regardless, text messages every morning, wanted me to create a snapchat so she could send snapchats, things were seemingly great for a matter of about 3 weeks. Felt like I was on top of the world.

When we started to talk, she said she had just got out of a bad relationship. I don't know a definite time scale, but at the time I would say no less than 5 weeks minimum. She dated this guy for about a year, and he broke her heart around February. She couldn't keep her .... together in classes and would randomly start crying.

There's a mutual friend that we both know, we will call him fred. fred was introduced to me through one of my closest friends way before this girl and I started talking. I had no idea fred and this girl were best friends who had known each other for a long time - many years. This was information found out later when we were talking with one another. fred became man in the middle, and this is where it gets dangerous later on.

When things started to change:
She has a close friend, we will call him bob, who she's known for a while. Her sorority and his fraternity had a formal planned for the beach. She was painting this friend a cooler because he asked her to do so. Her and I are both engineering students, so this formal ordeal is right in the middle of when things are picking up near the end of the semester. Stress levels were real.

bob and her went to this beach formal, and the entire time she was texting how she hated it, didnt want to be there, wasnt what she expected, didnt know the frat brothers that well, etc. fast forward a day, and that's when i started getting drunken text messages on a saturday night about how much she misses her ex, would do anything for this boy, gave him her everything, pretty much a mental breakdown while away from home and I'm the one she's unloading all of this on. she admitted to calling her dad in tears. At first it makes me realize we're in trouble because I started to fall for this girl hard, and now she's basically admitting defeat and failing the desire to move on. I got really nervous and uncomfortable because things were moving way too fast and my workload for uni I could tell was getting ready to be jeopardized.

sunday rolls around and we're talking on the way back through texting, but it's awkward. it definitely doesn't feel the same, almost forced friendship like. Sunday night rolls around and she's just starting schoolwork around 12:30 in the morning - she lets me know she has work to do, but this is not a girl who procrastinates. I figured she probably slept after getting back home, no big deal.

Come to find out her ex called her (I think she drunk called him saturday) and she agreed to meet him in person sunday afternoon when she got back. She claimed she wasn't getting back together with him, but that he was back in the picture and she didn't know to what extent yet. Apparently since then friends have said they have pictures together on facebook. I believe I was blocked from seeing anything from her or her friends, so there's no way for me to know at all in that regard.

Regardless, monday through that friday we don't talk at all. I speak to another friend of hers and find out about her ex and her being on good terms via word of mouth. Wasn't hunting for this information, but it was stated anyway. Regardless, she had mentioned before she hated his guts and didn't want to see this guy that same drunken saturday night.

I confronted her about this via text message and she said she felt as though she didn't want more than to be friends, because she still loves her ex. She claimed she had been telling me this all along multiple times. She said she's always loved her ex, and because she has always loved her ex, that it wasn't fair for me. She admitted to meeting her ex that sunday when they got back in person, said that she felt she needed to distance herself because I was always overstepping boundaries, and that she just wanted me to be a best friend like bob and fred.

I felt absolutely heart broken. Not only did I trust this girl, I was falling in love with her. Not only was I falling for her, she started to fabricating lies that basically disrespected me as a person and my feelings overall. This was someone who I had invested a lot of time in to try to comfort her with the breakup while also trying to give her the space she needed and said she desired. In reality she was just using me to tool up and let both barrels go in my face it seems. All of the things we had built up came crashing down in a matter of a single text message.

I replied shortly after receiving that message, because I knew over a 5 day period of not talking that it had pretty much came to a head at that moment. I told her that friendships are like relationships, in that they are both built on trust. I told her that not only do I feel lied to, but I had proof based on her actions that what she was saying, versus what she actually did, were not matching up at all. Basically actions speak louder than words. I told her to do whatever makes her happy - whether talking to her ex as a friend or trying to mend the relationship they had built. But I also told her that going back to someone like that does not change the fact that trust was broken - the year long relationship basically doesn't matter anymore.

In summary I basically told her that not only do I no longer trust her, that I basically have no desire to want to even be friends anymore. Basically back to not knowing one another at all.

She never replied, and she started to really distance herself. Basically called her BS and I believe she didn't have a reply to give. In return she isolated my friends from me to study with them, she avoided the places I stay during the day, wouldn't talk to me, wouldn't even look in my general direction. She took alternate routes to bus stops and other things that I knew she normally did because we're forced to see one another being that we have similar majors. It borderline became a severe level of emotional abuse that was really ....ing me over because there was absolutely zero closure between us, yet we're still forced to see one another so often.

Insert Fred into the picture - that night approaches. He asked if I was alright. I was not in the state of mind to study alone like I normally do in lecture halls and asked for him to stop by that night on campus. I let out alot then, and let out even more back when I got home. He knows I cared for her, and had her best interests in mind. I've been a mental wreck since all of this has happened.

I'm having a problem moving on, letting go, and just coming to terms that we had so much in common that is now meaningless. Worst part is that fred is caught in the middle - he's going to echo anything I say about her because of their close friendship and I honestly don't know how I should handle him overall. I don't trust the guy, and quite honestly why should I given what has recently happened.

People were talking around school, and the relationship just felt right. I have attachment issues because I'm empathetic and let my guard down. Now I'm paying for it in the long run and have no way of ever getting closure from this emotional attachment.

I felt like I had to burn the friendship bridge that she wanted. Completely. I've never had to do that before with someone, let alone someone that I had feelings for. It's taking everything I have to be the better person here and deal with the repercussions of that decision. She knows I'm hurting over this, and how she has treated me has actually hurt her image in the eyes of those who thought they knew her.

Special advice request:
We will be seeing each other more often in the fall, and I have no idea how to deal with fred, her, any of the events we will both be required to work for the honors societies, ambassador events, and so on. Friends who know about all of this definitely will judge her differently than she normally carries herself which is also sad/bad/not good.

TL;DR
I feel like I actually had something at some point, there was chemistry, chemistry randomly disappeared from her, and now I have nothing. Not only do I no longer have it, I had to step up to forcefully kill anything left in any form of a friendship out of respect for myself and my own heart with how she handled my feelings and how she failed to be up front. In doing so, there's a cluster.... of emotions, and I feel like I got the worst end of this ordeal and that she has learned nothing from any of it. Basically lose/lose my end and win/win for her.
 

TedEH

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^ I hate to say it, and you probably don't want to hear it, but unless she very clearly communicated to you that what the two of you were doing was some kind of committed arrangement, then she kinda owes you nothing. Sometimes friends have chemistry that strains the friendship- and on top of that, separations can be awfully complicated for anyone to navigate. It sucks, but it is what it is.

There's nothin wrong with having strong feelings for someone who isn't committed to you, or doesn't always return the sentiment. Sure, it's not ideal, but its on you to make the best of it, to enjoy whatever you do get from that relationship, and to not take it personally if she's not in the same place right now. Some of my best friends are ladies I either do have, or have had, feeling for that were not returned, but we both respect where we stand, and the honesty about it is a large part of why the friendship works as well as it does.
 

russmuller

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TL;DR
I feel like I actually had something at some point, there was chemistry, chemistry randomly disappeared from her, and now I have nothing. Not only do I no longer have it, I had to step up to forcefully kill anything left in any form of a friendship out of respect for myself and my own heart with how she handled my feelings and how she failed to be up front. In doing so, there's a cluster.... of emotions, and I feel like I got the worst end of this ordeal and that she has learned nothing from any of it. Basically lose/lose my end and win/win for her.

Ted is right; she doesn't owe you anything. Don't blame her for not living up to your expectations. Instead, try to understand how and why you built up those expectations so that you can nip them in the bud the next time they come around.

Just let her be in peace. You don't know what she's learned (maybe she's learned that she's not ready to be involved), and it's not your duty to teach her anything. Take some deep breaths, let go, and learn what you can from the experience.
 

flint757

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I saw this girl around campus at uni sitting isolated and studying, never thought anything of it. We met at one of the honor societies we're both members of - she was running for VP. We started talking about dogs, and there was chemistry between us. Things moved quickly - we traded numbers and started talking a few weeks later. We had a lot in common - all the weird stuff it normally takes months to figure out. Both like to cook, sleeping temperatures, life goals, favourite foods, both are artistic, the list goes on and on. Said she wanted to watch certain movies together, loved that I was easy to talk to, wanted to take me out to deep sea fishing with her family since they live on the coast, etc.

Worth noting that chemistry manifests itself in two ways, love and friendship. One would think that these things are ideal for a romantic relationship, but ultimately this isn't always the case. Consider the fact that if you have guy friends you probably think you have a lot in common with them as well, but, assuming you aren't bi, you probably don't want things to go down the romantic path. The same can be applied to your current situation. Her being a woman doesn't by default mean this will work out any other way. One of my best friends used to be a woman I had feelings for that were not completely reciprocated. In her mind the chemistry made for a good foundation for friendship and in mine a relationship. It happens. We texted every morning and went everywhere together. We even occasionally had flings, but ultimately we were only friends because she didn't really feel the same way.

We hung out and went to the movies, but it was always with friends and never just us. She seemed like she wanted to get attached, but not too attached to the point of others noticing which was understandable given we had not known each other very long and she has a reputation to uphold. Regardless, text messages every morning, wanted me to create a snapchat so she could send snapchats, things were seemingly great for a matter of about 3 weeks. Felt like I was on top of the world.

When we started to talk, she said she had just got out of a bad relationship. I don't know a definite time scale, but at the time I would say no less than 5 weeks minimum. She dated this guy for about a year, and he broke her heart around February. She couldn't keep her .... together in classes and would randomly start crying.

See nothing in here would imply to me y'all were in a serious committed relationship and it would honestly seem she was indeed sending the correct signals from the get go. Perhaps it could have been stated more clearly, but typically when relationship talks get started and one party mentions they just got out of a really bad relationship it usually means they do not want to date. That could be now or that could be indefinitely. Typically, people never state which they mean, I'm assuming to avoid the awkward confrontation or out of fear of losing a good friendship.

bob and her went to this beach formal, and the entire time she was texting how she hated it, didnt want to be there, wasnt what she expected, didnt know the frat brothers that well, etc. fast forward a day, and that's when i started getting drunken text messages on a saturday night about how much she misses her ex, would do anything for this boy, gave him her everything, pretty much a mental breakdown while away from home and I'm the one she's unloading all of this on. she admitted to calling her dad in tears. At first it makes me realize we're in trouble because I started to fall for this girl hard, and now she's basically admitting defeat and failing the desire to move on. I got really nervous and uncomfortable because things were moving way too fast and my workload for uni I could tell was getting ready to be jeopardized.

These are all things I'd expect a friend would tell me honestly. In fact, my girl friend (as in friend who is a girl) has done this countless times. She'd call me because she can't sleep, tell me she misses her ex, etc. If women truly believe you are their friend they often talk to you about things that in a guys mind we'd expect them to leave to their girl friends. As for admitting defeat, it doesn't actually sound like she ever moved on from your post and things sound awfully platonic so far.

Come to find out her ex called her (I think she drunk called him saturday) and she agreed to meet him in person sunday afternoon when she got back. She claimed she wasn't getting back together with him, but that he was back in the picture and she didn't know to what extent yet. Apparently since then friends have said they have pictures together on facebook. I believe I was blocked from seeing anything from her or her friends, so there's no way for me to know at all in that regard.

Regardless, monday through that friday we don't talk at all. I speak to another friend of hers and find out about her ex and her being on good terms via word of mouth. Wasn't hunting for this information, but it was stated anyway. Regardless, she had mentioned before she hated his guts and didn't want to see this guy that same drunken saturday night.

I confronted her about this via text message and she said she felt as though she didn't want more than to be friends, because she still loves her ex. She claimed she had been telling me this all along multiple times. She said she's always loved her ex, and because she has always loved her ex, that it wasn't fair for me. She admitted to meeting her ex that sunday when they got back in person, said that she felt she needed to distance herself because I was always overstepping boundaries, and that she just wanted me to be a best friend like bob and fred.

Honestly, seems pretty on point and obvious from the outside looking in. The mere fact that Bob and Fred exist is testament to the fact that she does indeed do the guy friend thing. You stated you were falling for her hard and that it wasn't being reciprocated, which would likely lead to scenarios where you are indeed overstepping (you very well may not have been though; something to consider nonetheless).

I felt absolutely heart broken. Not only did I trust this girl, I was falling in love with her. Not only was I falling for her, she started to fabricating lies that basically disrespected me as a person and my feelings overall. This was someone who I had invested a lot of time in to try to comfort her with the breakup while also trying to give her the space she needed and said she desired. In reality she was just using me to tool up and let both barrels go in my face it seems. All of the things we had built up came crashing down in a matter of a single text message.

I'm only getting from your situation what you've told us, but it doesn't read at all like your last two sentences. It's completely understandable that your heart's broken and that you're upset about the situation, but sometimes feelings aren't reciprocated the same way. From what you're saying she never got close intimately, dates tended to be in groups, she took another friend to an event, and she has other really close guy friends that she doesn't think of in any way, but platonic. It really isn't a reach that she did want the same for you that she had with Fred and Bob.

I replied shortly after receiving that message, because I knew over a 5 day period of not talking that it had pretty much came to a head at that moment. I told her that friendships are like relationships, in that they are both built on trust. I told her that not only do I feel lied to, but I had proof based on her actions that what she was saying, versus what she actually did, were not matching up at all. Basically actions speak louder than words. I told her to do whatever makes her happy - whether talking to her ex as a friend or trying to mend the relationship they had built. But I also told her that going back to someone like that does not change the fact that trust was broken - the year long relationship basically doesn't matter anymore.

In summary I basically told her that not only do I no longer trust her, that I basically have no desire to want to even be friends anymore. Basically back to not knowing one another at all.

Your frustration is understandable, but on the same token did your friendship mean so little to you that you are willing to drop her completely? Since you have romantic interest I'd say distance isn't a bad idea so you can move on, but consider what else you got from the friendship to decide whether or not you want to stop talking to her all together. Considering you guys clicked on a lot of levels that's also a good foundation for friendship just as much as it is for a romantic relationship. IME it's pretty rare that you meet people, in general, that fit with you like a puzzle piece even when it comes to friends. I personally only have one friend who I'm like that with.

She never replied, and she started to really distance herself. Basically called her BS and I believe she didn't have a reply to give. In return she isolated my friends from me to study with them, she avoided the places I stay during the day, wouldn't talk to me, wouldn't even look in my general direction. She took alternate routes to bus stops and other things that I knew she normally did because we're forced to see one another being that we have similar majors. It borderline became a severe level of emotional abuse that was really ....ing me over because there was absolutely zero closure between us, yet we're still forced to see one another so often.

Read back to yourself what you told her. One might expect a response, given the gravity of the situation, but you were the one who severed that line, so a response was never really guaranteed.

Insert Fred into the picture - that night approaches. He asked if I was alright. I was not in the state of mind to study alone like I normally do in lecture halls and asked for him to stop by that night on campus. I let out alot then, and let out even more back when I got home. He knows I cared for her, and had her best interests in mind. I've been a mental wreck since all of this has happened.

I'm having a problem moving on, letting go, and just coming to terms that we had so much in common that is now meaningless. Worst part is that fred is caught in the middle - he's going to echo anything I say about her because of their close friendship and I honestly don't know how I should handle him overall. I don't trust the guy, and quite honestly why should I given what has recently happened.

Why does it have to be meaningless though? This is going to sound really harsh most likely, but it sounds like you had your own interests in mind, not hers. At the end of it all you got a very clear rejection, as far as a romantic relationship at least, so clearly it is not what she wants. Do you have any justified reason not to trust Fred or do you think he's interested in her romantically too and might change your words? Do you believe men and women can be just friends? Sincere questions and you don't have to respond, but it's something worth thinking about.

Special advice request:
We will be seeing each other more often in the fall, and I have no idea how to deal with fred, her, any of the events we will both be required to work for the honors societies, ambassador events, and so on. Friends who know about all of this definitely will judge her differently than she normally carries herself which is also sad/bad/not good.

I'm still unclear how Fred fits in all this, but if you need time and distance I definitely see the issue you're being presented with. The only thing you can do really is just pray you move one over the summer.

What are you leaving out that would cause people to be judgmental towards her? Honestly, from what you've wrote, she may not have been the most transparent, but nothing seems so ridiculously horrible that people should be judging her in a negative light. For those not directly affected, so anyone other than you and her, I would think it would only be a passing thought and nothing else.

I feel like I actually had something at some point, there was chemistry, chemistry randomly disappeared from her, and now I have nothing. Not only do I no longer have it, I had to step up to forcefully kill anything left in any form of a friendship out of respect for myself and my own heart with how she handled my feelings and how she failed to be up front. In doing so, there's a cluster.... of emotions, and I feel like I got the worst end of this ordeal and that she has learned nothing from any of it. Basically lose/lose my end and win/win for her.

What do you feel she needs to learn from this situation? Are you referring to the ex? There's knowledge to be gained for you from this experience as well.

I understand why you felt this was a lose/lose for yourself, but the idea that you think she has a win/win situation is only the anger talking. At the very least, she lost a good friend from all of this and you said people are judging her negatively as well. Things on campus are now more awkward for the both of you because you can't completely avoid each other either.

She's doing what she feels is right for herself. It wasn't what you wanted so you bailed (also a completely acceptable choice to make). She probably could have been more clear, or perhaps you more aware of what she was actually saying, if she were being mostly transparent [wasn't there so I personally wouldn't know], but nothing you've said would lead me to believe she was being inconsistent.

Rule #1: People don't talk about missing their exes with people they either are or want to be romantically involved with. That's totally friend territory and if you can get past your feelings it sounds like you two would actually make really good friends. :2c:
 

Ibanezsam4

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a long wall of txt filled with lessons to be learned


anytime a women talks drama about her personal life and it is not immediately followed up by "i wish you were here holding me/slash having an adult good time with our private parts" means you are a friend.

people don't typically dump all their drama on someone they're trying to impress.

my advice: next time you have a female who you are attracted to, do not become a go-to person for advice or a shoulder to cry on. the second emotional dependence comes into the equation the waters become murky.

keep an attractive flirty distance and their reaction will tell the whole story of whether or not their interested.

as for the fall, man up and say you let your emotions get the better of you and that you're sorry. she can take it or leave it. but its the right thing to do and would make life easier as it goes on
 

glpg80

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Worth noting that chemistry manifests itself in two ways, love and friendship. One would think that these things are ideal for a romantic relationship, but ultimately this isn't always the case. Consider the fact that if you have guy friends you probably think you have a lot in common with them as well, but, assuming you aren't bi, you probably don't want things to go down the romantic path. The same can be applied to your current situation. Her being a woman doesn't by default mean this will work out any other way. One of my best friends used to be a woman I had feelings for that were not completely reciprocated. In her mind the chemistry made for a good foundation for friendship and in mine a relationship. It happens. We texted every morning and went everywhere together. We even occasionally had flings, but ultimately we were only friends because she didn't really feel the same way.

Here's the thing, fred was being sent messages from her which proved there was more than a mutual friendship desire. At the time, she didn't know that I had already met fred. We were so close to one another at one point, that even fred's girlfriend mistakenly thought we were dating. It wasn't that I was forcing something which wasn't there, it's that she was leading me on to believe it was honest but then had an immediate change of heart and/or decided her ex was just more of what she wanted. I just don't understand why she felt as though she could do that, bring her ex back into the picture as a friend, and still think I'd be perfectly alright with being friends as well. Once that line has been crossed on either side it's never been my experience for things to ever work out. Things always stay awkward, and that's where we're at now.

See nothing in here would imply to me y'all were in a serious committed relationship and it would honestly seem she was indeed sending the correct signals from the get go. Perhaps it could have been stated more clearly, but typically when relationship talks get started and one party mentions they just got out of a really bad relationship it usually means they do not want to date. That could be now or that could be indefinitely. Typically, people never state which they mean, I'm assuming to avoid the awkward confrontation or out of fear of losing a good friendship.

She came to me for comfort, and I was crazy enough to let my guard down and give it. As mentioned before there is undeniable doubt that she was sending mixed signals throughout all of this, and it didn't help that her relationship with her ex was involved near the end.

These are all things I'd expect a friend would tell me honestly. In fact, my girl friend (as in friend who is a girl) has done this countless times. She'd call me because she can't sleep, tell me she misses her ex, etc. If women truly believe you are their friend they often talk to you about things that in a guys mind we'd expect them to leave to their girl friends. As for admitting defeat, it doesn't actually sound like she ever moved on from your post and things sound awfully platonic so far.

I have countless girl friends which I can talk to, and one of them I did bring aside and get her point of view out of all of this mess. I really trust her, and if anything it's brought our friendship together much closer. But this girl mentioning this to me, if anything it was a sign of something much worse. Remember, we had only just met roughly 5 weeks prior, it was all too quick and all too much at one time to take in. The girl friend that I pulled aside to talk to I have known for years now. It's a trust thing if anything else, and I feel like her nor I were being true to one another to have conversations like that so soon.


Honestly, seems pretty on point and obvious from the outside looking in. The mere fact that Bob and Fred exist is testament to the fact that she does indeed do the guy friend thing. You stated you were falling for her hard and that it wasn't being reciprocated, which would likely lead to scenarios where you are indeed overstepping (you very well may not have been though; something to consider nonetheless).

That's where I failed to mention that it was being reciprocated vicariously through others, but she was doing something else in person completely different. It should also be noted the movie night was with the honors society people, so theres a level of professionalism that has to be upheld that I failed to involve. The night we slept together holding hands and sharing stories, she stated that the only reason she didn't want to get into a relationship with me was because I would leave her like everyone else has. That to me is a trust issue, and that's where I drew the line. This happened after the beach vacation with bob and was after we were at a party together. Even at the party, we were sitting together/leaning on one another and we were having a great time.


I'm only getting from your situation what you've told us, but it doesn't read at all like your last two sentences. It's completely understandable that your heart's broken and that you're upset about the situation, but sometimes feelings aren't reciprocated the same way. From what you're saying she never got close intimately, dates tended to be in groups, she took another friend to an event, and she has other really close guy friends that she doesn't think of in any way, but platonic. It really isn't a reach that she did want the same for you that she had with Fred and Bob.

Re-evaluate after this reply. Why would she bring her ex back into the picture to be one of these close guy friends, while admitting not to get back with him, but still loving him/always loving him? She wanted to be best friends with me on the level of bob and fred, but she admitted that she also felt she needed to distance herself at the same time. That makes me feel horrible as a person, and is part of the reason I have done my best to cut all possible ties because she literally won't sit down and talk to me about this after giving her an honest opinion on our friendship and where we both currently are.

Your frustration is understandable, but on the same token did your friendship mean so little to you that you are willing to drop her completely? Since you have romantic interest I'd say distance isn't a bad idea so you can move on, but consider what else you got from the friendship to decide whether or not you want to stop talking to her all together. Considering you guys clicked on a lot of levels that's also a good foundation for friendship just as much as it is for a romantic relationship. IME it's pretty rare that you meet people, in general, that fit with you like a puzzle piece even when it comes to friends. I personally only have one friend who I'm like that with.

I'll be honest man, I've never clicked with anyone on that level, let alone that quick, ever in my entire life. A lot of people knew we had a lot in common, and word traveled really fast that things were going on between our friends. It's not that I don't want to be friends, but there is something else here I forgot to mention that's important which is a deciding factor. She feels like she has to be in competition with men, and plays the women in engineering card extremely hard. She got an internship through a company I had tried to gain a few years ago and she did it with less outstanding credentials. Fast forward after exams and right before summer started, the only words she spoke to me was throwing that internship in my face/saying she got accepted. That's extremely spiteful and by all means not friendship level at all.

Read back to yourself what you told her. One might expect a response, given the gravity of the situation, but you were the one who severed that line, so a response was never really guaranteed.

Why does it have to be meaningless though? This is going to sound really harsh most likely, but it sounds like you had your own interests in mind, not hers.

Fair enough. It comes down to the fact that I rather have quality friendships over quantity, and right now she hasn't showed true friendship anything to me for me to believe it's better than anything I've got at the moment. My friends are people that know they can come to me for help and no judgement will ever be passed in either direction. It's mutual respect. The fact she feels like its women vs men and feels as though she had to throw that internship in my face after verbally and physically isolating herself from me after my response proves that point very clearly. I cannot and will not be friends with someone who is spiteful, and the fact that emotional attachment was involved at one point complicates matters even more. Insert fred, for example.


At the end of it all you got a very clear rejection, as far as a romantic relationship at least, so clearly it is not what she wants. Do you have any justified reason not to trust Fred or do you think he's interested in her romantically too and might change your words? Do you believe men and women can be just friends? Sincere questions and you don't have to respond, but it's something worth thinking about.

I did get a very clear rejection, and that is quite obvious. Things will never work out between us simply because her family ideals and how she was raised will never work with how my parents raised me. I cannot relate to having everything I've ever worked for simply given to me. School, new car, housing, living expenses, credit cards, taxes, you name it. Moral ideals in the bigger picture do not line up here, and she's very much one of those that status symbols matter to her more than anything else. That's why she's doing the leadership positions IMHO - women versus men and she enjoys the power it allows her to have. Again, that's not friendship level anything I can relate to and the wrong reasons for which anything honest can be built from in my point of view.

I'm still unclear how Fred fits in all this, but if you need time and distance I definitely see the issue you're being presented with. The only thing you can do really is just pray you move one over the summer.

Fred was the wingman, the glue that proved she had feelings, the one that she trusts. Fred is a great person and I have no problem with him at all, but with how close they are in general, I don't feel as though I can trust him at the level I trust my other friends. He's picked sides and I'm more of a person once again of quality over quantity. I'm at the moment willing to just let time play out how things work out in that regard. But knowing this girl, it makes things super awkward now that fred and I are also acquainted with one another.

What are you leaving out that would cause people to be judgmental towards her? Honestly, from what you've wrote, she may not have been the most transparent, but nothing seems so ridiculously horrible that people should be judging her in a negative light. For those not directly affected, so anyone other than you and her, I would think it would only be a passing thought and nothing else.

She fails to back up her leadership skills with actual leadership. She complains about having to step in when other people fail, and would rather milk any form of action without putting the effort in. I know this based on her actions within programs at the uni.

What do you feel she needs to learn from this situation? Are you referring to the ex? There's knowledge to be gained for you from this experience as well.

I feel like it's not OK to treat someone like she did, and refuse to confront me in person if that made her feel uncomfortable even if it was to be done in a public area for safety. I do not deserve to be targeted like that, and it's not OK for her to jump to conclusions so quickly. I also feel as though it's time she be held accountable for the lies. I would rather not play this off in the long run because you're responsible for your actions. It's all about accountability, and most of my friends feel as though she reacted childishly. There's a lot of other details I'm leaving out because I'm only one person and can remember only so much.

I understand why you felt this was a lose/lose for yourself, but the idea that you think she has a win/win situation is only the anger talking. At the very least, she lost a good friend from all of this and you said people are judging her negatively as well. Things on campus are now more awkward for the both of you because you can't completely avoid each other either.

You're absolutely right. How we will avoid one another from this point on I have no idea. I know that I cannot trust her to make an amended friendship, and even back then If I had agreed to be best friends, it wasn't on good terms or with mutual trust that it would have been made. I just feel as though I was always someone that was either for her, or against her, like I have a crosshair on my forehead now because of it. Someone to out-do, put down, etc.

She's doing what she feels is right for herself. It wasn't what you wanted so you bailed (also a completely acceptable choice to make). She probably could have been more clear, or perhaps you more aware of what she was actually saying, if she were being mostly transparent [wasn't there so I personally wouldn't know], but nothing you've said would lead me to believe she was being inconsistent.

re-assess this comment after this post please.

Rule #1: People don't talk about missing their exes with people they either are or want to be romantically involved with. That's totally friend territory and if you can get past your feelings it sounds like you two would actually make really good friends. :2c:

I really don't see us being close friends. The fact I feel like I can read her like an open book really scared her. The fact I cannot stop talking about her shows there's a need for distance between us because it's unhealthy at the moment, and I honestly don't think I'll ever be able to trust her on a friendship level, let alone ever again. The problem is that I cared. I cared too soon, too quickly, and the feelings she initially had were shared with fred, but hidden in plain sight. For what reason I'm not sure, and honestly I'll never know. It's superfluous information at this point anyway.
 

flint757

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She came to me for comfort, and I was crazy enough to let my guard down and give it. As mentioned before there is undeniable doubt that she was sending mixed signals throughout all of this, and it didn't help that her relationship with her ex was involved near the end.

I wan't questioning that there might be mixed signals, but that her behavior from your first post didn't seem wildly different as I was reading (but it is all written in hindsight so some of that is to be expected).

As for advice on that subject, dating should be pretty clear cut. If you have to ask you probably aren't. I assume you are saying that you weren't officially dating, but her body language and general communication came across as if she might eventually be more interested. If this is the case it's like a mirror image to my past situation I went through several years ago. I let it be known from the get go that I liked her a lot, but she wasn't as interested. So she thought, or so I assume, that the only way to keep me around was to flirt with me, and other such stuff, every now and then or I'd just bolt. My situation was still very ambiguous during that time period and looking back when I can reflect on it I lean back on the idea that if you have to ask or think about it you probably aren't dating so dating etiquette seems to go right out the window, even if it can sometimes present itself in poor taste.

That's where I failed to mention that it was being reciprocated vicariously through others, but she was doing something else in person completely different. It should also be noted the movie night was with the honors society people, so theres a level of professionalism that has to be upheld that I failed to involve. The night we slept together holding hands and sharing stories, she stated that the only reason she didn't want to get into a relationship with me was because I would leave her like everyone else has. That to me is a trust issue, and that's where I drew the line. This happened after the beach vacation with bob and was after we were at a party together. Even at the party, we were sitting together/leaning on one another and we were having a great time.

Now see that would have cleared up a lot of things for me reading through the first time. :lol:

Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of that in conjunction with everything else. If her ex caused her to have trust issues, then she claimed she only didn't want to be with you because of trust issues, then she goes back to the ex anyhow, it certainly defies all logic and I imagine stings quite a bit.

I'd definitely call that a lead-on, in hindsight, with no intention of follow through. The little nugget to keep you content to stick around, if you were the type to bail when feelings are denied (from her perspective).


Re-evaluate after this reply. Why would she bring her ex back into the picture to be one of these close guy friends, while admitting not to get back with him, but still loving him/always loving him? She wanted to be best friends with me on the level of bob and fred, but she admitted that she also felt she needed to distance herself at the same time. That makes me feel horrible as a person, and is part of the reason I have done my best to cut all possible ties because she literally won't sit down and talk to me about this after giving her an honest opinion on our friendship and where we both currently are.

Yeah your re-write changes the context quite a bit. If you were forward at all, like she stated, some of it would still be understandable, even if only emotionally driven, but the fact that she'd dangle the opportunity just under your nose is just as forward. It would appear her intentions were just different in hindsight. I'd say you ended up in the stereotypical friend-zone (the kind where someone is deliberately put there by misleading behavior from either party, not just simply denied).

I'll be honest man, I've never clicked with anyone on that level, let alone that quick, ever in my entire life. A lot of people knew we had a lot in common, and word traveled really fast that things were going on between our friends. It's not that I don't want to be friends, but there is something else here I forgot to mention that's important which is a deciding factor. She feels like she has to be in competition with men, and plays the women in engineering card extremely hard. She got an internship through a company I had tried to gain a few years ago and she did it with less outstanding credentials. Fast forward after exams and right before summer started, the only words she spoke to me was throwing that internship in my face/saying she got accepted. That's extremely spiteful and by all means not friendship level at all.

In like a playful trash talking sort of way or in a I want to make you feel awful sort of way? In either case dwelling on it isn't necessary if your intention is to drop this situation like a hot potato.

Fair enough. It comes down to the fact that I rather have quality friendships over quantity, and right now she hasn't showed true friendship anything to me for me to believe it's better than anything I've got at the moment. My friends are people that know they can come to me for help and no judgement will ever be passed in either direction. It's mutual respect. The fact she feels like its women vs men and feels as though she had to throw that internship in my face after verbally and physically isolating herself from me after my response proves that point very clearly. I cannot and will not be friends with someone who is spiteful, and the fact that emotional attachment was involved at one point complicates matters even more. Insert fred, for example.

Well, my replies are only based on your replies, my experience, and what is usually the case in these situations. It's entirely possible I'm reading it all wrong.

So are you saying that you'd have major issues with your friendship/relationship due to the spiteful comments even if the rest didn't happen? Would you have done anything about it had the rest not happened?

She definitely lied and misdirected towards the end of your original post, but I just took it more as she knows you are very interested in her, and apparently some interest exists with her as well, so she was cowardly attempting to avoid a situation.

Again, literally the same scenario happened to me within this old friendship I've been bringing up. On an official level we were just friends, but she knew I wanted more than that so when she went to see her ex she lied about it and didn't tell me anything. It's probably in poor taste, but the fact that it can be a group behavior leads me to believe its just human error at coping with confrontation and stress. I do agree it doesn't show particularly good leadership skills and arguably poor judgment.


I did get a very clear rejection, and that is quite obvious. Things will never work out between us simply because her family ideals and how she was raised will never work with how my parents raised me. I cannot relate to having everything I've ever worked for simply given to me. School, new car, housing, living expenses, credit cards, taxes, you name it. Moral ideals in the bigger picture do not line up here, and she's very much one of those that status symbols matter to her more than anything else. That's why she's doing the leadership positions IMHO - women versus men and she enjoys the power it allows her to have. Again, that's not friendship level anything I can relate to and the wrong reasons for which anything honest can be built from in my point of view.

If this is the case why did you want to date her in the first place and how were you still able to 'click' with her?

Fred was the wingman, the glue that proved she had feelings, the one that she trusts. Fred is a great person and I have no problem with him at all, but with how close they are in general, I don't feel as though I can trust him at the level I trust my other friends. He's picked sides and I'm more of a person once again of quality over quantity. I'm at the moment willing to just let time play out how things work out in that regard. But knowing this girl, it makes things super awkward now that fred and I are also acquainted with one another.

Okay, this makes more sense now. She got the friends in the 'divorce' kind of thing. :lol:

I feel like it's not OK to treat someone like she did, and refuse to confront me in person if that made her feel uncomfortable even if it was to be done in a public area for safety. I do not deserve to be targeted like that, and it's not OK for her to jump to conclusions so quickly. I also feel as though it's time she be held accountable for the lies. I would rather not play this off in the long run because you're responsible for your actions. It's all about accountability, and most of my friends feel as though she reacted childishly. There's a lot of other details I'm leaving out because I'm only one person and can remember only so much.

I figured as much and it'd probably paint a more clear picture. Assuming this is an accurate portrayal of the events, it would seem a bit childish and that things got pretty heated between everyone involved.

Relating back to my old fling again, the temperature of the relationship was definitely fully in her control; so if it's anything like that then one minute she's probably cool with the flirting and forward or boyfriend-like behavior, but when she decided to go with someone else its all of a sudden unacceptable again. It fits her age IMO. It's all about them and their feelings and what they want. As far as personal rights go that's perfectly fine. No one can force another to do something they don't want to, but it is indeed childish to not fully commit or string people along just so you can have a safe backup friend who can be your pseudo-boyfriend when it's convenient (that's definitely how I felt about it at the time).

She's doing what she feels is right for herself. It wasn't what you wanted so you bailed (also a completely acceptable choice to make). She probably could have been more clear, or perhaps you more aware of what she was actually saying, if she were being mostly transparent [wasn't there so I personally wouldn't know], but nothing you've said would lead me to believe she was being inconsistent.

Okay, so there were definitely some inconsistencies and lack of transparency for sure. The rest I still feel's on point (perhaps in a rude way she is still doing what she clearly thinks is right and you clearly aren't happy with how things turned out so you walked away), although I'd put the emphasis on both of you rather than just you, as I did before. Now, admittedly it is hard to read signals when people deliberately make them murky so as to keep people on a short leash. She definitely could have been more clear about everything and in the future I'd suggest my earlier advice:

if it's hard to tell that you're in a relationship, or someone at anytime physically claims they don't want to be or can't be in a relationship, don't bother trying much harder or getting too invested.

Talk like that means you're always 2nd or 3rd choice even if they end up dating you later on (especially with her moaning to you about her ex). Couple that with the 'girl talk' about exes, boyfriends and the like and I'd say it doesn't seem like you had a shot at a full on relationship beyond a rebound/backup anyhow (in hindsight).


I really don't see us being close friends. The fact I feel like I can read her like an open book really scared her. The fact I cannot stop talking about her shows there's a need for distance between us because it's unhealthy at the moment, and I honestly don't think I'll ever be able to trust her on a friendship level, let alone ever again. The problem is that I cared. I cared too soon, too quickly, and the feelings she initially had were shared with fred, but hidden in plain sight. For what reason I'm not sure, and honestly I'll never know. It's superfluous information at this point anyway.

Yeah, you definitely need to distance yourself physically and emotionally from this situation no matter what. If you do decide to be friends again leave it for the distant future. Get some peace of mind and just move on first. She's flawed like most humans and she has issues that you were saying are deal breakers for a relationship anyhow. In my mind that means you didn't lose much on that front. Seems like your better off pursuing other interests or just focusing on yourself for the time being. Worry about amending the friendship once you get to a point of indifference about this situation.
 

TedEH

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If I might offer some advice- I've recently gone through a similar situation... arguably I'm still going through it, depending on how you interpret events, but my details are not super relevant. I had an old friend, old friend had a break up, we were "just friends" but I ended up being someone she went to for support and it escalated, then after reaching a certain point quickly de-escalated, and it caused me a bunch of frustration- but at the end of the day, I'll repeat what I've already said:

She doesn't owe you anything, just like the lady in my situation owes me nothing. People are complicated and emotional and afraid and confused and make mistakes. Maybe she led you on, maybe you were just a rebound, maybe she cares about you and is distancing herself because she realizes that leading you on any further would do you more harm than good, maybe she used you for the attention until she found a way to get the same attention elsewhere- who knows- I could come up with a bunch more scenarios, but it's not the point.

The point is that you knowingly pursued someone who was recently out of a relationship and got burned, kind of like I did. It happens. It sucks. Maybe you can recover the friendship or the relationship, but maybe you can't- in either case, it's on you to own the situation- by which I mean:
a) Give yourself a break. You're still a perfectly functional person without her.
b) Give her a break. If she's just out of a relationship, that's a hard time for people.
c) Don't be a d*ck. The way you react to the situation can and will exacerbate both the problem itself, and your (and her) level of frustration over it.
d) Be supportive. If she really is a friend, then that has to be a priority. Don't throw your friendship under the bus in the name of a relationship that you're not confident is going to happen at this point.
e) Be honest and work on your communication skills.

There's not really anything else you *can* do. You can't force your relationships with people to operate on your terms. Either it works for everyone involved, or it doesn't and you move on.

Edit: For the record, I'll admit that I'm, at least in part, typing all of this as a reminder to myself- because we all need the reminder every once in a while to just relax, not be a d*ck, and let things be what they are.
 


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