Some Christians need their good to engage in deceit....

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Explorer, Mar 31, 2014.

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  1. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    Okay, so that's a pretty bold statement in the title, but here's the thing: I have run into this thinking much of my life.

    And, since it is part of US politics and often makes it into an attempt to influence current events, I've put it into that forum, in order to keep it in a more moderated section.

    When I was a kid, my aunt was getting all worked up about evolution. I was probably about 8 years old, and I asked her about how her views on the age of the dinosaurs and what she thought about radiocarbon dating. She said that God made things look like they were older.

    I asked... so, you mean God uses the tools of the Deceiver, in order to deceive deliberately? Because I wouldn't worship a God who was deceitful, because you would never know if that God was telling the truth.

    And she got really mad, but didn't have an answer.

    ----

    And now I'm running across those same arguments, that God has made things look like they're older in order to deceive.

    The latest place where I've been exposed to the idea of Yahweh the Trickster is some friends who are upset at the show Cosmos.

    The Latest "Cosmos" Episode Has the Best Argument Yet Against Creationism | Mother Jones

    In a nutshell, if the universe is only around 6000 years old, then we'd only be able to see the Crab Nebula and a few other things, but all the other stars wouldn't be visible, because their light wouldn't have had time to cross the necessary distance to make it to Earth.

    And so my friends said that God made it so the light was created already en route, so the universe would look like it was much older.

    Same thing with the recent evidence which appears to confirm the Big Bang theory. God did it so it would look just like it would if it were following natural law.

    And again, my question was the same as when I was 8. "So, God is using the tools of the Deceiver in order to tempt people into not believe in Him based on the evidence they can perceive, using their God-given senses? What a terrible thing for God to do, no? How do you know if any of the Bible is similarly deceit on God's part?"

    ----

    The Catholic Church has managed to embrace the opposite view, that one shouldn't deny what one can perceive, and the Church has had a history of accepting evolution. In 2005, Fr. George Coyne (the Vatican's cheif astronomer) wrote, "Intelligent design isn't science even though it pretends to be. If you want to teach it in schools, intelligent design should be taught when religion or cultural history is taught, not science." CardinalPaul Poupard added a warning about the permanent lesson learned from the Galileo affair, and that "we also know the dangers of a religion that severs its links with reason and becomes prey to fundamentalism."

    (Is it any wonder that I considered being either a Catholic brother or joining the Jesuits? The Jesuits have produced some amazing scientists.The Vatican has a chief astronomer, for goodness' sakes, while the current Christian fundamentalism in the US raves about the evils of modern astronomy, which produces observable evidence in conflict with their interpretation of Scripture. No wonder they don't like the Catholics..... *laugh*)

    ----

    Anyway, here's the question: Am I the only one who regularly has contact with people who need Yahweh to be deceitful?

    Or, moving closer to home, do you personally believe that God fabricates evidence which might potentially lead people onto the road to Hell?
     
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  2. TRENCHLORD

    TRENCHLORD Banned

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    row, row, row your boat
    gently down the stream
    merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily
    life is but a dream



    that's all I gotst :lol:
     
  3. ScottyB724

    ScottyB724 SS.org Regular

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    People love to live a lie, and if you shatter that illusion of theirs they become very uncomfortable, I can't blame them for reacting that way. I just feel kind of bad for them honestly.
     
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  4. Leuchty

    Leuchty Previously CYBERSYN

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    I dont have an answer to your question...

    But...

    What would be interesting to hear is... Why??? What would be the reason why God would do that?
     
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  5. ScottyB724

    ScottyB724 SS.org Regular

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    To test your blind faith, duh!
     
  6. Leuchty

    Leuchty Previously CYBERSYN

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    Or they fabricate another lie when the first one is chopped down. :lol:
     
  7. dedsouth333

    dedsouth333 That one dude...

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    I don't have an answer (as I'm not even remotely religious), but I love threads like this. I'm so frickin' subbed.:lol:
     
  8. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

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    It all comes down to cognitive dissonance. If all the facts, data and logic that shows that modern religions are no different than the old religions (aka mythology), then I've been wrong all these years, my parents have been wrong, etc. etc. and I'm not superior to all those nonbelievers, I have no moral high ground to force them all to adhere to my rules, etc., etc.. It's easier to believe the hypocrisy, internal conflicts, rationality, e.g. reality, doesn't exist.

    Add to that, the fact that there are a lot if ignorant and/or mis-educated folks. Listen to the attempts at refuting Evolution. Listen to the anti-Vaxers. They truly do not understand what they are arguing against; however, they have the arrogance of ignorance on their side and believe themselves to be correct and more knowledgeable than those that truly know reality.

    Their ignorance of simple logic is also very clearly seen with all the "You can't 100% unequivocally‎ prove that gawd doesn't exist, therefore any claim is a matter of faith too." These folks don't understand simple logic. Fanciful claims need to be proven first. This gets even sadder when they refuse to see that EVERY claim they use to prove their deity, proves all 2700+ deities humans have ever worshiped and EVERY argument they use to disprove all 2700+ deities humans have ever worshiped, disproves their preferred deity.
     
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  9. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

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  10. ilyti

    ilyti Lazy Ryebread Viking

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    I believe in God and the Bible, but I don't believe in a literal interpretation of six creative days. The word "Day" as translated, can mean an unspecified, very long period of time. That's what the "creative days" were. I've researched the Bible from front to back, and though it's not a scientific textbook, what it says is scientifically accurate, just not too detailed. It even says the world is round and is suspended upon nothing! I feel bad for Creationists, but they're generally pretty terrible Christians anyway.
     
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  11. The Q

    The Q The Engineer

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    There's no dog. Thanks for the Carl Sagan link. Usually falsifiability of an argument would be my primary argument against people stating "facts" about their imaginary friend(s).
     
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  12. Grand Moff Tim

    Grand Moff Tim Some call me... Tim

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    LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
     
  13. JoshuaVonFlash

    JoshuaVonFlash SSBRO.org regular

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    This thread delivers. :lol:
     
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  14. Ckackley

    Ckackley SS.org Regular

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    I had the best science teacher in middle school. She was very open to the fact that not only did she teach science but she was very Christian as well. So, i asked her one day. "How can you believe in Science and God at the same time?" Her answer was simple and perfect. She said " God is the power that kicked off the big bang and helps guide evolution. Science is a way of explaining the mechanics that God works by. "
    I wound up Pagan, so I'm not into any one religion being right. Quantum physics is just on the brink of explaining what spiritualists and "holy men" have been saying forever. So I try to leave the whole mess alone.
    Another side note- A good friend of mine who is an archaeologist wound up leaving the church altogether after hearing the "God put dinosaur bones in the Earth to trick us" argument. His exact quote- "If that's how God want's to be , .... him.."
     
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  15. Eric Christian

    Eric Christian Banned

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    I'm only going to quote these two questions because the title and the rest of your post doesn't make much sense to me.

    So first of all, based on these two questions though its my opinion that you like most people have a rather skewed perception of what Yahweh/Elohim/God/Allah actually is. That said, you need to step back and think about this entity less as a gray bearded dude in white robes who is concerned with going around fabricating dinosaur bones to trick humans and more as the Ultimate Engineer of every single particle in the entire infinite Universe.

    So yeah, I have a huge personal Library. I've spent a large portion of my life studying and reading pretty much every single ancient scripture you can think of from almost every culture throughout the world. I've also spent a great deal of time reading any valid accounts of ancient history as well as pretty much every subject related to the fields of science with a special interest in astronomy, physics, geology and biology.

    That said, its my honest opinion that some elements of several different scriptures unequivocally have divine inspiration in that they are the actual translated words of the Ultimate Engineer as well as we can understand them. On the other hand though, I would say that the vast majority of the scriptures are polluted with human ideas and thoughts which ultimately come from the evil forces that are at work on this planet.

    However, the key to understanding is to recognize that the Universe and its entire contents are no mistake and that when you submit to the "One" then you will come closer to divine knowledge. :bowdown:
     
  16. oracles

    oracles Australian in Canada

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  17. pink freud

    pink freud SS.org Regular

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    Here's how you make your life easier:

    Does the subject at hand fall under the rules of falsifiability? If it does not, is it really worth caring about beyond philosophical meanderings that have no impact on the world beyond peoples' feelings?

    The very aspect of an omnipotent omniscient being is such a convoluted tangle of paradoxes that lie outside the realm of logic that I firmly believe that one shouldn't venture into it unless they have an emotional attachment to the subject or are very bored and have nothing better to do.
     
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  18. asher

    asher So Did We

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    @Eric: As I'm interpreting your post, you're saying that, ultimately, this is an unanswerable question? Is that correct? I'm just having trouble totally parsing out what you're getting at.
     
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  19. Grand Moff Tim

    Grand Moff Tim Some call me... Tim

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    To contribute more than "LOOOOOOOOOOL," I'll throw in that none of the super religious people I've met have said it's God that plants misleading evidence, but rather Satan, to try to tempt us from the righteous path. I don't believe that, of course, but it's what some people believe.
     
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  20. JoshuaVonFlash

    JoshuaVonFlash SSBRO.org regular

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    I find some people's tendency to keep themselves ignorant to feel comfortable sickening and incredibly saddening. It makes me sad to see people completely disregard information and knowledge.
     
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