Senator Barney Frank (D-MA) calls for decriminalization of marijuana

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Codyyy, Mar 24, 2008.

  1. ZeroSignal

    ZeroSignal Appreciates Kwolity Contributor

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    I agree with the first statement. In fact, I actually said that in my first post. ;) I wouldn't want it to be any worse than it actually is and I am of the opinion that it is bad enough.

    Alcohol and cigarettes are illegal to under anyone under the age of 18 here too and look how well that turns out anywhere. :shrug: Kids'll still get it if they want. They can just ask a friend over 18 to go and get it for them or any number of other solutions.

    When other people begin taking my money because they are too fucked off their faces to hold down a job and have to go on the Dole or if they're so strapped for cash that they need a fix that they have to resort to crime like mugging to get their cash I DO need protection from them because I'll be damned if I'm going to have to carry around something as insane as a gun to protect myself.

    I do not think that people caught carrying substances should be put through the court system but I do think that they should be given on the spot fines and the police and judiciary should spend that time and energy on pursuing the dealers and pushers. I also believe that shops shouldn't be allowed sell these drugs either.
     
  2. JBroll

    JBroll Hard-On For Freedomâ„¢ Contributor

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    Maybe you could just cut the social programs for drug-addled loons, instead of continuing to pour money into a pit that nothing is coming out of?

    Jeff
     
  3. ZeroSignal

    ZeroSignal Appreciates Kwolity Contributor

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    Now what do you suppose we do instead?

    What ever happened to "leave no man behind"?

    Have we become so desensitised that we are willing to cut these people off because they have made a few bad choices? Then we would just be taking another step towards Hitler's fascism where the "weak" are removed simply because they are perceived to be "weak".
     
  4. Metal Ken

    Metal Ken Hates the Air Contributor

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    Thats what makes it a preventative measure.


    Education goes a long way. in schools, break out those slides of smoker's lungs compared to regular people's lungs. Proper education of what people are getting into is more likely to make them think about it than going "Mom said not to so im gonna do it anyway!"
     
  5. JBroll

    JBroll Hard-On For Freedomâ„¢ Contributor

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    I don't like social programs anyway, and you're the one saying you want to leave the same people behind because of the same few bad choices.

    I wouldn't treat people much differently, myself. Whatever someone's reasons for not showing up to work and dropping out of life are, the drain on society is just the same. Do you object to handouts because people aren't qualified for real jobs and half to stick to fry-serving, or for people who just don't want to work at all?

    You're already paying for charity cases who spent too much time and money on drugs. Keeping things illegal doesn't stop that, and if you're concerned about that it's hypocritical to keep alcohol legal because people get smashed on booze and drop out of life all the same. Keeping people in jail just leaves more of a strain on the prison system and our budgets.

    Jeff
     
  6. ZeroSignal

    ZeroSignal Appreciates Kwolity Contributor

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    Well in my experience a lot of people shown that kind of material (including films like Super-Size Me) are at first shocked but after a while become either apathetic towards it or they become desensitised to the shock value. Not that I'm saying education doesn't work it's just that it varies in its effectiveness.
     
  7. ZeroSignal

    ZeroSignal Appreciates Kwolity Contributor

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    Sorry mate but you're not reading my posts...

    I said that people shouldn't be left behind because of their "stupidity" and whatnot. Not the other way around.

    If they're making an effort to get back on their feet then I believe my tax-monies are being well spent. For instance a young, poor single mother trying to make ends meet would have to sign up for a child benefits scheme or other Dole scheme. Or an unskilled factory worker who has worked in the same factory for 30-40 years is getting laid off and needs to prop himself up as he is retrained is a worthy cause in my opinion.

    Again you didn't read my posts because I said that people who are caught in possession shouldn't be convicted and sent to prison but they should be fined or be forced to do community service or something along those lines. The government should be attacking the producers, traffickers, dealers and pushers instead. ALSO I am not hypocritical because I dislike alcohol just as much as any other drug. I do not drink.
     
  8. noodles

    noodles Contributor

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    I have ceased being able to perceive the point you are trying to make. You are saying that alcohol and cigarettes still wind up in the hands of minors, even though it is illegal to them, so we shouldn't legalize drugs? :scratch:

    There, I just replaced everything in your argument that referred to drugs with alcohol instead. Amazingly, your argument still holds true! So, can you explain to me, using your logic, why alcohol should stay legal?

    Now you are not only arguing against yourself, but you're not making sense. First, how is weakening the penalties for drugs going to fix the problem with addicts being a drain on welfare? Second, how is giving "on the spot" fines going to not burden the court system? This is essentially what cops do with speeding tickets, and yet traffic court is still overloaded. Everyone has a right to a fair trial, so you can't just presume guilt and force them to pay a fine.

    If you'd been paying attention to other's posts, you'd see what everyone is calling for is decriminalization. That means it becomes the same as alcohol:

    • Walk around smoking a joint, and you get a fine. That is the same as walking around drinking a beer, which is a violation of open container laws. Well, except in New Orleans, where we're not so fucking uptight.
    • Driving under the influence is the same as driving while intoxicated on alcohol: you lose your license for 6-12 months, have to go to a court appointed training program, and pay a steep fine.
    • You have to be 21 to possess or consume it, the same as alcohol. It is taxed and regulated the same way as alcohol. Suddenly, all the money spent on the utter failure of trying to keep it out of people's hands becomes a huge influx of tax revenue. We can completely eliminate the DEA. Gang crime related to the manufacturer and distribution of illegal substances all but disappears, becoming the minor, unorganized nuisance that today's bootlegger's have become. Now, we can significantly lower people's income taxes.

    As I see it, decriminalization is going to mean we spend less money dealing with drugs, and not more. The welfare burden is already there, whether it is legal or not. Let go of the boogey man views of drugs that you learned in school, since alcohol is worse than everything but heroin, crack, and ketamine.
     
  9. noodles

    noodles Contributor

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    Don't you see? That is what we already have. Heroin possession is a felony offense. So, one act of stupidity, and you have to answer "yes" to the "Have you ever been convicted of a felony?" on every job application for the next ten years. No one is going to hire you for a real job, so your life is basically over. You are now going to be condemned to working fast food, living in a shitbox government assisted apartment in a bad part of town, and going to a parole officer and NA meetings. After it falls off your record, you can now begin to start completely over (best of luck with that).

    Everything you are stating that you stand against is happening right now.
     
  10. Thrashmanzac

    Thrashmanzac plays in 69/42

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    fuck, im staying out of this one.
     
  11. ZeroSignal

    ZeroSignal Appreciates Kwolity Contributor

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    1. The point that I was making in my first post and continued with is that sometimes people do need to be protected from themselves for various reasons. You may not like it but that is what I think.

    2. I can't explain why alcohol should stay legal and I couldn't care less because I (and I quote) "dislike alcohol just as much as any other drug".

    3. I guess we have different policing systems here considering that people are not prosecuted for drinking in public and people do not lose their licence for drink-driving but they do get points on their drivers licence. I am not entirely familiar with your policing regulations. I am of the opinion that less drugs the better in general and they are very poorly regulated in a lot of areas.

    4. Ha! "Boogey man views" indeed... I didn't learn them in school because I went to an inner city school so drug use was common enough and the staff couldn't jive a shit. I picked up my stance from my own experience with friends who are drug abusers. And again I put alcohol in the same place as any other drug.
     
  12. ZeroSignal

    ZeroSignal Appreciates Kwolity Contributor

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    I know and I agree with you! I have a great respect for you Noodles and I agree with most of what you are saying except a few points.

    It is horrific how people are treated in this day and age and I do not think people should be labelled a "felon" (we have just The Criminal Record over here) for drug possession or abuse.
     
  13. JBroll

    JBroll Hard-On For Freedomâ„¢ Contributor

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    I'm reading them, you just have narrow definitions of stupidity. Never underestimate the power of people to be stupid in new and innovative ways.

    In that case, they're a strain on those people administering community service... at least around here, that lot doesn't get much done.

    Do you move to have alcohol made illegal? I can't say I blame you for disliking it, but do you object to its status as a legal drug?

    Jeff
     

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