Randy Blythe (LOG) - Online Raging via Twitter

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by Rick, Sep 19, 2011.

  1. Ancestor

    Ancestor Contributor

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    you said it right, man. exactly. it's a different ball game. i'm not going to say what i do for a living, but there's are serious copyright and related issues that have forced those in my industry to work for little or no pay. but i still don't want to see people sued over it. it's something i have to deal with or get out. and i'm dealing with it. i think about it and share what i know with the other colleagues and we try to make it better.

    one of my teachers said it best i think, "the genie is out of the bottle." you can agree or disagree with downloading, but it's here to stay. going after downloaders won't ever change that.

    to me, it becomes ethically wrong when you record or copy illegally and then make a profit from someone else's work. in my field, they call it "aggregating" and the biggest names do it. the biggest.

    but the bottom line is you have to offer something that is worth paying for when you're dealing with intangibles. downloading a CD is not the same as shoplifting one from a store. sorry, different. :(

    if it's worth it, people will buy it. and you can complain and cry and ask "why lord why?" but this is how it is.
     
  2. Fred the Shred

    Fred the Shred Shrederick

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    As I said earlier in thread, I am all for people being able to stream my tracks, and I sure as hell care about how you'll get them to your PC / iPOD / whatever, as I paid for the whole shizzle myself. It is MY choice what mediums are alright for the listener to use to stream the songs, not some self-entitled kid who doesn't even know me and invested but a mouse click on the whole thing, sorry. ;)

    This only reinforces my point about streaming, which I'm all for provided there is the artist's consent. Ages ago, in the beginnings of MySpace's golden era, I found a band called To Mera, and I streamed their songs time and time again. Given my audio kit, even back then, I could easily capture the streaming audio and save it - thing is... "why should I when I don't even need to?".

    And here's why. Every time you click on a streaming track, I may get no money, but I get a valuable help regarding clinics and bookings, as well as the perceived reaction of the public, and what Fred has to offer them. This is leverage when negotiating things, so even when not gaining directly, the number of listens is a good way to complement the notion of projection artist / band X may have. It is also a way for me to let you guys hear or see what I'm up to, be it in its demo form of the fully fledged final product, as I like to share the evolution of my work, personally.
     
  3. Ancestor

    Ancestor Contributor

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    god, there are such simple solutions to these problems but no one seems to ever see them. especially for an entity as large as the ri.
     
  4. Ckackley

    Ckackley SS.org Regular

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    I'm about to sound old ...

    Reading over this thread makes my stomach hurt.. So, it's not stealing because it's a copy ? It's a privilege to make music , but a right to listen to it ? Yay modern school systems. We've finally reached the point where we can reason ANYTHING we want out. Wanting something and reasoning out a sketchy argument on why stealing it is ok does not make it right.
    My band makes albums in our drummers basement. We have gotten revues putting us toe to toe with worldwide touring acts such as Nightwish and Epica. Most reviewers have no clue it was recorded in a basement. It still cost some money for mastering and pressing albums. Our band doesn't make any money. We all work day jobs and music is a hobby. However, if we had a sale for every person that tells us " I LOVE your music! I've downloaded all three of your albums!! " we'd have a pretty decent second income, allowing us to spend more time making music and less working another job so we can eat. It's great to hear that people like our stuff, but words won't put a roof over your head or food on the table. Downloading is stealing. Use whatever excuses you want, taking something without paying for it is thievery. Maybe one day money will be obsolete and we can all do what we want and share the stuff we create. That would be awesome! However it's NOT reality.
     
  5. Scar Symmetry

    Scar Symmetry Ex Whiny Bitch

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    It has already been covered that the issue at hand is not that simple. :nono: I'm not saying I'm not justifying it or defending it, but that's what we're all doing here - serving our own purpose. The high horse is completely useless at this point - get off it.

    I completely agree with everything said here man. :yesway:

    It's all very well people bitching, but if they're not offering a solution or even trying to find middle ground on how we can move forward then what are they contributing? Absolutely nothing. If you're going to vent at least offer a solution. :yesway:
     
  6. gotnothing

    gotnothing Member

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    Exactly....bands deserve compensation for their hard work
     
  7. etcetera

    etcetera SS.org Regular

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    Yay modern schooling systems? I'm sorry if reasoning and logic are valued now, and weren't before as you implied, but somehow I don't think that's the case anyway. Just because you don't agree with an argument, labelling it a sketchy and a justification for stealing doesn't offer any kind of refutation. You're simply restating the fallacy that every download would have been a sale, when there's no evidence to suggest this is the case. The whole situation is nowhere near that simple, and people claiming that every download (how do you even accurately assess how many times it's been downloaded?) is equitable to a lost in income is ridiculous.

    I'm going to have to provide this disclaimer again - I'm not saying downloading is morally ok, or is a workable model for the future of music. I'm just trying to point out that oversimplifying the issue by labelling fans/people who are interested in your music as criminals goes nowhere towards finding a solution.
     
  8. petereanima

    petereanima Br00tal Bubbly Mofo

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    Well, what kind of solution are you asking for? I really would like to know what is needed to make people go from illegal free downloads to paying for music again?

    There actually ARE offers, and imho - maybe due to me not being interested in downloads at all/beeing an old fart - actually already more than enough...please correct me if I'm really missing something which sould be offered.

    To stick with the example Lamb Of God: I now go realtime while writing this post to amazon, first hit with searching for Lamb Of God - their record "sacrament". Available are single tracks for 0,60-0,97 per track (so you dont have to buy the whole record if you are only interested in a few tracks), the full record downloadble for 6,60 (still cheaper than the CD, no waiting time blabla) , or the real physical CD for 9,- (good price imho).

    I dont know what is missing here.

    And even if the price for one track would be 0,50 or lower - the majority would STILL keep the few cents and download illegal. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my guess is that the "solution" everyone is asking for is simply "make filesharing legal goddamnit".
     
  9. Scar Symmetry

    Scar Symmetry Ex Whiny Bitch

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    :scratch:

    No, not at all. Things can't go back to how they were - the game has changed! I'm sick of repeating myself at this point. :lol:

    I don't know what the answer is, but I am genuinely excited to see how things turn out because it won't stay like this forever.

    Maybe once again I can myself, as a musician (and I don't think people in this thread realise how much I want a career in music) can actually take a career in music seriously again.

    I'd also like to point out that I myself have a CD that is available on all of the filesharing sites. I managed the band, wrote a lot for it, was involved in every single artistic aspect, I arranged the songs and the recording and I funded most of it myself too. Do you see me complaining? NO. It doesn't take a lot of wisdom to realise that in this instance, there's nothing you can do about it, so embrace it and move forward!
     
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  10. etcetera

    etcetera SS.org Regular

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    Exactly. Things won't go back to the way they were before, and the solution at this stage isn't clear, but I'm genuinely excited to see how it will all pan out once the dust has settled. :yesway:

    For anyone who's interested, this is an interview with musician/producer Benn Jordan/The Flashbulb, who also owns the label Alphabasic - Pirated by iTunes, Artist Turns to BitTorrent

    As I mentioned before he releases his music on various BitTorrent trackers with a note about donating/purchasing a physical copy if you enjoy it. But given the behaviour of certain members who prefer leaving anonymous neg-rep instead of debating the issue in public, I have a feeling they aren't actually interested in furthering their knowledge or hearing anyone else's opinion on the matter.
     
  11. petereanima

    petereanima Br00tal Bubbly Mofo

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    Of course not. As you might remember, I have a band myself ( I carry almost all the costs for production etc.etc., just the same as you did), and besides the "old school" style with the real physical CD up for sale etc, we uploaded the record to specific blogs ourselves so it is available, as we/I/.. are fully aware of how things are running today.

    I thought we were already beyond this point in the conversation.

    My post was really more about the "solution" everyone is screaming for - that would imply (as I stated earlier) that both sides need to change something. And my questions imply was, what is it the downloaders would change? Would they stop free downloading and pay for music again? Obviously not, because the offer would be here, so I really just wanted to understand WHAT everyone here is actually asking for.
     
  12. Homebrew1709

    Homebrew1709 SS.org Regular

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    ^ And that's the bottom line.
     
  13. SirMyghin

    SirMyghin The Dirt Guy Contributor

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    I am quite certain you have no idea what logic actually means, gathering from your posts. I never look at the modern youth and think well, these kids are far too logical. True story. It is more 'what in the hell are they doing' and if you ask them they will tell you 'I don't know', which is neither reasonable, nor logical.
     
  14. etcetera

    etcetera SS.org Regular

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    So could you show where I'm being illogical? I still don't see any refutation of what I said, other than some vague ageism.
     
  15. GATA4

    GATA4 Banned

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    Good arguments in this thread. I like it.

    MOD EDIT: Don't be so butthurt over rep.
     
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  16. brutalwizard

    brutalwizard Pretty Your Petunia

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    you talk as though there is a 100% proven method to evaluate that every illegal download would not have been a sale and tote it around as evidence to justify the concept to evolve past paying for music as the format is now.

    i agree we need to "get with the times" and help find other alternatives to make music as a whole a stronger business.

    "You're simply restating the fallacy that every download would have been a sale, when there's no evidence to suggest this is the case. "

    i would love to see the evidence that suggests otherwise!!!

    i mean cold hard real evidence, not just you saying something like
    "well you see, some people could have downloaded and deleted it and forgot about it".

    those are subjective variables, and without a study or general consensus to conclude the percentage of such things occuring, your saying the same thing as
    every download would have been a sale.
     
  17. SirMyghin

    SirMyghin The Dirt Guy Contributor

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    That you purport the ideology that stealing an idea is alright as it isn't tangible. Your furniture store example illustrates that train of thought clearly.
     
  18. ArrowHead

    ArrowHead SS.org Regular

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    A lot of people re-hashing the same line about how they are hurt or financially impacted by illegal downloading. Still no examples of how it is in any way worse of different than the way artists were compensated before the advent of downloading. I see a lot of romanticism here for a system that never actually existed.

    Fred, not to single you out, but if not for downloading, internet distribution, and your ability to do what you do on your own, you wouldn't even exists. 30 years ago you had pretty much one choice for a guy like you - pray to Jesus that Mike Varney likes you. And even then, very few of those guys made any money either.

    People want their cake and to eat it to - get their music out easier than ever, but still have people pay for it like some rare commodity.
     
  19. etcetera

    etcetera SS.org Regular

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    Ok, maybe I've mistakenly implied something or completely forgotten about a previous post, but I certainly don't think there is any evidence to suggest that every illegal download wouldn't have been a sale. It's just as ridiculous as saying that every illegal download equates to a lost sale.

    I certainly never said that. The furniture store analogy was to illustrate that copying isn't theft, it doesn't mean that it isn't wrong on some other level. I thought I'd made this obvious by adding the disclaimer: "Just to be clear, I'm not saying that downloading music is necessarily ethical/right, I'm simply pointing out the mistake in calling it theft and trying to oversimplify an inherently complex issue."
     
  20. ArrowHead

    ArrowHead SS.org Regular

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    PIRACY and THEFT are two different things. BOTH are unethical, BOTH are illegal, but they are not interchangeable concepts. I think that is what etcetera is trying to say.
     

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