Randy Blythe (LOG) - Online Raging via Twitter

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by Rick, Sep 19, 2011.

  1. ArrowHead

    ArrowHead SS.org Regular

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    I think when I started out a band was lucky to make $.75 off a $12 cassette sale (pre-cd's). And that was only after enough sales to pay off what typically amounted to a $200-500,000 loan from the record label. Divided by $.75, that's a LOT of albums to sell before making so much as a penny.

    So the sweet spot to me is a much lower spot than $5. Realistically, as an artist I would be very happy to make a $1 profit on a $1 album download rather than MAYBE making .$75 off a $12 album sale. And I think as a fan I ALSO would rather buy 10 hot new albums for $10 than pay $10 for a single album.

    It's kinda like watching Borders bookstore closing. The last days when discounts hit 80%-90% off were RIDICULOUSLY busy, and the bookshelves were emptied. Yet when sales were at 50% off, it wasn't nearly as busy.

    When you hit that magic price point, you'll know. You just might be unhappy that the price is much lower than you were hoping for.
     
  2. ShadowFactoryX

    ShadowFactoryX OMNIHILITY

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    This is a great point.
    Why is the price still the same for intangible media? If I have the option to spend $10 in store/online for a physical cd as opposed to a digital download, I'll go the route of obtaining the physical copy.

    But still, that doesnt give me an incentive to buy either.

    I think one thing thats going to remain true is that piracy is here to stay, whether one is for it or against it will be another constant.

    I also am one who thinks that there's nothing wrong with the "try before you buy" idea.

    One thing I didnt see mentioned is if someone buys a CD, then burns a copy (semi-outdated formula, but still applicable) Thoughts?
     
  3. ArrowHead

    ArrowHead SS.org Regular

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    That is typical when a band records a first album and has been collecting songs, riffs, and ideas for years. But once it's released and the touring cycle starts, you'll find amassing a list of 30 songs is much much harder to do for the next album.

    Van Halen, for example, wrote something like 40 songs at once, which in turn was the bulk of their first four albums. After that, it took them 20 years to grace us with what - 15 more song? 20?
     
  4. USMarine75

    USMarine75 Stairway to Heaven blows Contributor

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    I guess you have to hope for a moral and a financial tipping point? :)

    You can prob tell by my post above that I believe that the paradigm is simply outdated (same as newspaper industry) and if you don't react then I can't feel sorry for you. We had a huge local newspaper going under here (Boston Globe) because they refused to modernize, cut salaries, or even ackowledge their industry issues... and then they wanted everyone to feel sorry for them and help them remain afloat. :fawk: Meanwhile, other newspapers saw it coming and embraced the internet and e-versions of their paper.
     
  5. vampiregenocide

    vampiregenocide SS.org Regular

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    Certainly some bands aren't as prolific as others, but even then many songs get cut from an album. I've seen many bands mention after spending months writing material that they have 40 odd tracks to whittle down to an album. Most bands end up cutting songs from an album that never end up getting heard. It just seems like a waste. Even if you cut 4 songs from an album, that's enough for an EP.
     
  6. USMarine75

    USMarine75 Stairway to Heaven blows Contributor

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    I hate to agree with someone from the 'burg... but... this ^

    Hmmm... I buy shit and put it on my kid's iPod and me and the wife's iPhones all the time... what is the ethical/legal threshold? Could I put in on my mom's iPod? If I put All that Remains on my mom's iPod will I be starving Ollie???
     
  7. ArrowHead

    ArrowHead SS.org Regular

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    I think the point is that most bands end up cutting 30-40 songs because they're collecting ideas and riffs they've been working on for a lifetime. After that, as time goes by, we ALL become a little less prolific. Add a touring schedule and lack of downtime, and most bands use that material for follow-up albums. Not B-Sides and E.P.s.

    But honestly, if you're capable of writing 40 album worthy tracks every time your band is ready to put out an album, you're a talent to be reckoned with. I know few musicians, amateur or pro, who can produce that level of output while trying to support themselves as well.
     
  8. vampiregenocide

    vampiregenocide SS.org Regular

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    Hmm dunno, either way it's something that could work providing the band has enough unused to material to do something with.
     
  9. ShadowFactoryX

    ShadowFactoryX OMNIHILITY

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    Hey whats wrong with us yinzers?!

    But thats the point i was trying to draw out. If you bought it, you're free to do as you please with it really. Though its stated that reproduction is illegal.
    If a friend wants to hear an album, I burn it, they end up liking one song, was there harm done or no?

    There's so many gray areas in this subject, that can go either way for anyone really.
     
  10. ArrowHead

    ArrowHead SS.org Regular

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    What you're discussing is actually the justification and method through which piracy first came into existence for software and music. People ripping tape/CD copies for friends, and giving pals copies of computer software to use on their new expensive fancy Apple 2E and 2Cs. (remember them relics?)

    Problem is, it was easier to justify then because it was so much of a smaller scale. Most didn't know how to do it, or that it could be done. And a copy of a copy would degrade as you make more, thus it was more common for those trying before buying to actually DO the buying!


    Again, Piracy IS wrong. So is speeding. I do both, and don't give a shit. I don't need justification - I'm an AMERICAN dammit! I am entitled to everything. ;)
     
  11. Cheesebuiscut

    Cheesebuiscut Loves his Q-tuners

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    I dunno, speaking with plenty of bias :rolleyes: I think my last post is one of the most relevant in this thread.

    I'm not arguing the legality of it, its fucking stupid to do so because everyone and their mother knows it is what it is.

    My whole point is it isn't going to change anytime soon and we all know it, all we can do is change our business model to accommodate it. I also left off with the fact that the musicians have always been getting dick'd as arrowhead has echo'd a few times already.

    In all honesty I think keith merrows model on his first album was one of the smarter ones in this day and age. He simply released the album for free for all to enjoy, and if you felt like he deserved money for his effort he added a donate button to his site. (and from the looks of his updated rig he made some cash doing so)

    This gave everyone the access they would have gotten to the music anyway through pirating etc but also gave them the option to pay him for it. When people aren't being forced to pay for something the people who are going to give money tend to give more generously or are plain OK with paying money because its not being forced of them.

    Look at the red seas fire release, people immediately went *holy shit this album is absolutely fantastic! They deserve my money! Why isn't there a donate button?.. take my money dammit*

    The fact is people need to stop crying over something they cannot change and start figuring out how to work with it.
     
  12. renzoip

    renzoip I Am the Table

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    I did not bother to read Randy's rant, since I can already tell his position on this subject matter from all the posts here.

    But I can say that when you are illegally downloading music, you are taking a copy of a piece of art without the consent of the original artist, which is not cool in my book.


    Analogy: I can lend someone my homework if I choose to do so, but if someone photocopies my homework and takes such copy without my consent, then it's different and we've got a problem, even if I still have the original in my possession.
     
  13. Mordacain

    Mordacain 1-watt brigadier

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    Since the discussion has veered towards possible solutions, I figured I'd share my basic plan for self-producing any personal works (strictly speaking, just work that is completely my own and not a collaboration):

    • Album streaming for free (96Kbps, decent quality) - that will let people determine if they like the composition enough to by a higher quality.

    • Album downloads in varying formats, with price ramping up for higher end formats: 128 Kbps: $4.99, 192 VBR: $5.99, FLAC: $7.99

    • CD with album art, liner notes, etc: $9.99 (Personally, I feel $10 is the sweet-spot for a physical copy of an album)
    • Merch through CafePress (or some other medium I can control over the internet)
    • I also like the idea of giving away B-Sides and things like that at 128Kbps. I would charge for higher quality though to offset server costs.
    I would like to think that having a good quality product at fair prices would enable me to live solely off my music, provide for my family (put kids through school, etc). I do think many of the large acts that harp on piracy have become corrupted by the avarice of the system they grew up in and have become accustomed to being f$ckin rich. Personally, I don't want to be rich.

    As far as I am concerned $100K a year income is enough to live comfortably just about anywhere in the States and that would be my personal goal.

    If the industry starting lowering their expectations on what their income should be, I think there would be greater album sales, and more musicians able to make a decent living doing what they love to do.
     
  14. linchpin

    linchpin Specter

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    Your analogy suggests the person who stole your homework is out to benefit from your work, its the same with designing a blueprint of an important building and someone steals your idea and goes ahead and builds it before you do thus taking all the credit... benefiting... somehow i dont quite see it in the same light as downloading unless its being sold on by that person.

    PS. i'm actually not Pro or Against piracy... just an observer :wavey:
     
  15. Mordacain

    Mordacain 1-watt brigadier

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    In so far as music goes, when you listen to music, you are enriching your life. So the person downloading is benefiting from the music, otherwise, why would they do it?
     
  16. linchpin

    linchpin Specter

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    The No1 reason for making music, true... enriching one's own life and hopefully others
    But i see music more than just a product, in fact, there's no price for it. :)
     
  17. vampiregenocide

    vampiregenocide SS.org Regular

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    Worth paying for, no?
     
    rectifryer likes this.
  18. linchpin

    linchpin Specter

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    Absolutely.
     
  19. ArrowHead

    ArrowHead SS.org Regular

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    These statements do not reflect each other very well. $100,000 is more than DOUBLE average U.S. income, and is an amount that many Americans would certainly consider pretty "rich". And it's a VERY lofty goal for a working musician.
     
  20. Mordacain

    Mordacain 1-watt brigadier

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    Do no reflect each other well according to your standards, maybe.

    Average income doesn't mean anything as most people make too little to be debt-free in the US. I make over $50K (granted its by working 60 hour weeks and overall busting my ass) and its still a struggle to pay bills, put my wife through school, plan for kids, etc. I don't live extravagantly, either. Most people that only make $50K a year struggle to make ends meet. $100K is the level I deem minimum to avoid that grinding existence. If I could make what I make now just by selling albums, I would do that, but it would still be a struggle to get by and I'd still be looking at other employment options.
     

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